The witchhunt continues...

[YmirGF]

It is interesting that instead of answering my question above many people, you included, would rather insult me that answer the question.

"Resistence is futile. Your life, as it has been, is over. From this time forward, you will service, us."

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's wild to me that people are so hyper focused on less than one percent of a population that they at most have tertiary contact with in the real world

Actually, I rather suspect that the most virulent posters have never had any contact with trans people -- but know all about them, anyway, they suppose.

I'm old -- I have known trans people (there are none among my close circle today, but there were). I found it hard to understand at first -- but what great insight you can gain by just listening to the people you are having trouble understanding!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

If you're interested, my screen name is a song from Porgy and Bess about biblical skepticism, and the avatar is Grateful Dead iconography that originated on an album cover (Bear's Choice). These are often called Jerry bears.

You may be surprised to learn that I had figured out both...(I love "Bess, you is my woman now").

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes that would be untrue.

...

How do you know that?

 

[metis]

You cant deny the condition percentages are quite high for transgenders compared to the general population.

Again, are you going to check everyone's "equipment"? Should others do it for you?

I've been in unisex restrooms in Europe and Quebec, and it's really no big deal who walks in to use the facilities. Yes, there's always at least a remote chance some potential rapist can walk in, but that can happen in a women's restroom minus anyone who's trans walking in.

 

[metis]

if i had a nickel...

I'm going to post my sentence again, please read it carefully:

See my post above, plus I don't think you're fooling anyone here as to why you take the sexist opinion that you have taken. Maybe you should mind your own business and let those families who have this issue to deal with make theirs.

 

[fantome profane]

If only there were other options...

Well there is another option. Don't. Just don't. Don't pass laws that force people who look like men to go into the women's washroom. Don't pass laws that force people who look like women to go into the men's room. Just don't.

 

[icehorse]

See my post above, plus I don't think you're fooling anyone here as to why you take the sexist opinion that you have taken. Maybe you should mind your own business and let those families who have this issue to deal with make theirs.

Another mind reader. Sure are a lot of them here on RF! (Predictably though, none are very accurate )

You know what dude, I DO have a family, and I want them to be safe.

 

[metis]

Another mind reader. Sure are a lot of them here on RF! (Predictably though, none are very accurate )

You know what dude, I DO have a family, and I want them to be safe.

And I have grandchildren and I wish the same for them. But sexism is sexism, and discriminating against trans by denying them the same rights us heteros have is just that. I'm no "mind-reader", and your implication that I am is so dishonest, so it's maybe your own mindset that's the problem.

 

[icehorse]

Well there is another option. Don't. Just don't. Don't pass laws that force people who look like men to go into the women's washroom. Don't pass laws that force people who look like women to go into the men's room. Just don't.

I don't believe those ideas have been put forth in this thread...

 

[icehorse]

And I have grandchildren and I wish the same for them. But sexism is sexism, and discriminating against trans by denying them the same rights us heteros have is just that. I'm no "mind-reader", and your implication that I am is so dishonest, so it's maybe your own mindset that's the problem.

**mod edit**

What I infer from your posts is that you want to increase the risks for ALL women so that a tiny percentage of people won't get their feelings hurt?

 

[We Never Know]

Again, are you going to check everyone's "equipment"? Should others do it for you?

I've been in unisex restrooms in Europe and Quebec, and it's really no big deal who walks in to use the facilities. Yes, there's always at least a remote chance some potential rapist can walk in, but that can happen in a women's restroom minus anyone who's trans walking in.

What the hell does your comment have to-do with my post?

Post #697 with mental health conditions there is a higher percentage in transgenders than there is in the general population.

Hmmm...Maybe you just like talking about people equipment.

 

[icehorse]

If medical professionals find a better treatment and publish evidence about it, I will support the better treatment. For now, that hasn't happened, and gender-affirming care remains necessary for many people—and the fact remains that, as I said, none of the European countries you keep mentioning have banned it even for minors. They have only emphasized that irreversible procedures for minors should be handled very strictly, which also directly contradicts the notion that doctors are handing out prescriptions for hormone therapy or surgery like candy.

In past discussions you have repeatedly claimed that puberty blockers and surgeries "save lives". I'm glad to see you backing off that stance a bit.

Here's a good article about further analysis and studies. A few key points from the article:

These facts underscore the need to treat suicidality as a complex multifactorial phenomenon, and strongly point to the conclusion that gender transition should not be viewed as a suicide-prevention measure.

Over the last 24-26 months, following systematic evidence reviews which found the evidence of benefits of youth gender transition to be highly uncertain, England, Sweden, and Finland have sharply restricted eligibility for youth gender transitions, confined hormonal interventions to research settings, and asserted that psychotherapeutic approaches should be the first line of treatment for gender-dysphoric youth.

These observations suggest that not only is the suicide narrative, frequently used to justify medical transitioning minors, is greatly exaggerated, but that medical gender transition is not an effective suicide-prevention measure.

STUDY ANALYSIS: Transgender Identity and Suicide Attempts and Mortality in Denmark

 

[We Never Know]

In past discussions you have repeatedly claimed that puberty blockers and surgeries "save lives". I'm glad to see you backing off that stance a bit.

Here's a good article about further analysis and studies. A few key points from the article:







STUDY ANALYSIS: Transgender Identity and Suicide Attempts and Mortality in Denmark

And there's this one too....

"A group of 21 international endocrinology clinicians and researchers from nine countries signed an open letter published yesterday arguing that gender transition medicine for minors has been pushed in the United States for political reasons rather than based on medical evidence.

Every systematic review of evidence to date, including one published in the Journal of the Endocrine Society, has found the evidence for mental-health benefits of hormonal interventions for minors to be of low or very low certainty," wrote the group of endocrinologists in the letter published on Thursday in the Wall Street Journal."......

"The letter published on Thursday, however, highlights that the risks of life-long sterility and medical dependency, as well as continued mental trauma, have greater certainty than the little-supported evidence in favor of hormonal transition.

For this reason, more and more European countries and international professional organizations now recommend psychotherapy rather than hormones and surgeries as the first line of treatment for gender-dysphoric youth," wrote the international team of physicians".....

International endocrinologists speak out against US gender transition medicine - Washington Examiner

A group of 21 international endocrinology clinicians and researchers from nine countries signed an open letter published yesterday arguing that gender transition medicine for minors has been pushed in the United States for political reasons rather than based on medical evidence. "Every...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[fantome profane]

I don't believe those ideas have been put forth in this thread...

We don’t live “in this thread”.


But when an idea is this dangerous, this evil, it is not enough that you just “don’t put it forth”. It has been put forth, and must be fought back.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And I could say to you that your misogyny is just misogyny.

What I infer from your posts is that you want to increase the risks for ALL women so that a tiny percentage of people won't get their feelings hurt?

There's no more risk than when racial segregation was ended, and that one also had bigots needlessly trembling in fear and demanding it not happen because their baseless fears must decide policy.

 

[metis]

And I could say to you that your misogyny is just misogyny.

What I infer from your posts is that you want to increase the risks for ALL women so that a tiny percentage of people won't get their feelings hurt?

That's complete nonsense, so the only question in my mind is whether you're being naive in regards to trying to apply such discrimination or whether is just plain old sexism applied to non-heteros, or possibly both?

With the former, let me again ask the question who's going to check the "equipment" because what a person is wearing into the rest room may not indicate which is which? Are you going to ask? What if someone asks you to prove that you're hetero, and how would you respond?

As far as rape is concerned, just checking the "equipment" is not likely to magically stop rape. Any potential rapist could walk into a women's bathroom and possibly rape a woman. So, your scenario is not even remotely logical.

Sexism is sexism, and that's all you're doing in spite of your denial.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And there's this one too....

"A group of 21 international endocrinology clinicians and researchers from nine countries signed an open letter published yesterday arguing that gender transition medicine for minors has been pushed in the United States for political reasons rather than based on medical evidence.

Every systematic review of evidence to date, including one published in the Journal of the Endocrine Society, has found the evidence for mental-health benefits of hormonal interventions for minors to be of low or very low certainty," wrote the group of endocrinologists in the letter published on Thursday in the Wall Street Journal."......

"The letter published on Thursday, however, highlights that the risks of life-long sterility and medical dependency, as well as continued mental trauma, have greater certainty than the little-supported evidence in favor of hormonal transition.

For this reason, more and more European countries and international professional organizations now recommend psychotherapy rather than hormones and surgeries as the first line of treatment for gender-dysphoric youth," wrote the international team of physicians".....

International endocrinologists speak out against US gender transition medicine - Washington Examiner

A group of 21 international endocrinology clinicians and researchers from nine countries signed an open letter published yesterday arguing that gender transition medicine for minors has been pushed in the United States for political reasons rather than based on medical evidence. "Every...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

21 is a very small number and what about the other countries that have not banned transitiom for minors amd have not put the state between patient and healthcare providers?
Obviously that article is for those who believe the world revolves around America.

 

[We Never Know]

Well there is another option. Don't. Just don't. Don't pass laws that force people who look like men to go into the women's washroom. Don't pass laws that force people who look like women to go into the men's room. Just don't.

Its became too political. Common sense and integrity should come into play.

Two scenarios......

This person is a FtoM and would make women uncomfortable in the women bathroom IMO..

This person is a MtoF and would make women uncomfortable in the women bathroom IMO..

 

[metis]

Its became too political. Common sense and integrity should come into play.

I totally agree.