The witchhunt continues...

[Shadow Wolf]

But to force the other person to call them by their preferred pronoun, or else... what is that called?

Or else what? Someone might call you call you a jerk?
It's not the first time society has had to learn things with Conservatives usually being the ones to oppose changes standards that say it's not ok to say things that amount to being a jerk towards people. Like cat calling women or how we're not supposed to use certain words to refer to black people not call a black man "boy." Society has had to learn, Conservatives have complained the most.

 

[icehorse]

Puberty blockers (and hormone blockers in general) are not in any way, shape or form chemical castration. Not even anywhere near the same chemical compounds or dosages, or effects. And the millions of us kids with precocious puberty who were on puberty blockers went on to have normal (normal in quotes for me due to PCOS) puberties and normal fertility rates.

Do you know what else hurts bone growth? Low estrogen, corticosteroids, SSRIs and reflux medications, which is why you take supplements if you're on them.

Do you ever get tired of commenting on things you have no knowledge of?

Ah grasshopper...

Here is a list of some of the hormones that are commonly used for at least three purposes:

- chemical castration for sex offenders
- to fight prostate cancer
- to block puberty

Goserelin Histrelin Leuprolide (Lupron) Triptorelin

Here are a few links for your reading pleasure (many more can be found):

Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) Analogues - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

Chemical Castration: Treatment, Procedure & Side Effects

 

[SomeRandom]

Yep. I had precocious puberty and started growing large breasts as an early teen. I didn't like how I looked or that it prevented me from doing the swim sports I enjoyed so much. My mom also had a breast reduction and understood the feeling so I went and got one. At 14 I had 5lbs of breast tissue removed. One of the best decisions I made. It wasn't because of a life threatening or even very serious clinical reason, it's because I didn't want to look or feel like that. My parents understood. That's reason enough.

As I understand it, and do forgive me if I’m wrong, but sometimes breast reductions are done on minors for health reasons as well?
Since abnormally large breasts can cause back problems among other health concerns like persistent pain.

7 Medical Problems Caused by Larger Breasts - Zenn Plastic Surgery

Problems Caused by Larger Breasts - We discuss 7 of the most common medical problems caused by naturally large breasts. Call Us Today!

www.zennplasticsurgery.com

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Ah grasshopper...

Here is a list of some of the hormones that are commonly used for at least three purposes:

- chemical castration for sex offenders
- to fight prostate cancer
- to block puberty

Goserelin Histrelin Leuprolide (Lupron) Triptorelin

Here are a few links for your reading pleasure (many more can be found):

Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) Analogues - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

Ah sea lion,

This is like calling a glass of water arsenic poisoning.

Lupron is not actually used in chemical castration despite your link, and is uniformly Medroxyprogesterone acetate.

Chemical Castration: MPA Treatment of the Sexual Offender | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

And it would be equally silly to say that my progesterone based hormone medication is a 'chemical castrator' just because they both have progesterone in the name. They aren't the same chemical compound, dosage or effect.

And I notice you skipped over how millions use puberty blockers and then go on to have normal fertility later. Hardly chemical castration. Just another call to emotion to fuel your insensible position with bad faith arguments.

 

[SomeRandom]

Ah grasshopper...

Here is a list of some of the hormones that are commonly used for at least three purposes:

- chemical castration for sex offenders
- to fight prostate cancer
- to block puberty

Goserelin Histrelin Leuprolide (Lupron) Triptorelin

Here are a few links for your reading pleasure (many more can be found):

Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) Analogues - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

Chemical Castration: Treatment, Procedure & Side Effects

According to the last link you posted, such treatments are used specifically for breast and prostate cancer and are entirely reversible.
Do you take issue with treating cancer????

 

[icehorse]

Surgeries and hormones can save lives, possibly even in some trans youth

But even that is an extremely consequential claim that you ought to have extremely good evidence for, correct?

 

[fantome profane]

Ah grasshopper...

Here is a list of some of the hormones that are commonly used for at least three purposes:

- chemical castration for sex offenders
- to fight prostate cancer
- to block puberty

Goserelin Histrelin Leuprolide (Lupron) Triptorelin

Here are a few links for your reading pleasure (many more can be found):

Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) Analogues - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

Chemical Castration: Treatment, Procedure & Side Effects

You were clearly talking about “surgical castration”

What would you call surgeries that involve removal of genitalia?

And now you are trying to pretend you are talking about “chemical” castration.

That explains why I could not find any evidence of what you were claiming. I was searching for instances of surgical castration on minors as part of a gender affirming care. And of course I could not find any such instances, because there are no such instances! Castrations, bottom surgeries, whatever you want to call them are not performed on minors!

You have been misinformed.

Of course there are dishonest people like Cucker who claim that puberty blockers are the same as chemical castration, but that is obviously nonsense. And there are idiots like Matt Walsh who claim it is happening in every children’s hospital all the time, but that is just a disgusting lie.

 

[icehorse]

Lupron is not actually used in chemical castration despite your link

I'll stick with the National Library of Medicine if you don't mind terribly

And I notice you skipped over how millions use puberty blockers and then go on to have normal fertility later.

I have never said otherwise! All I've said is that puberty blockers have many serious, long term side effects.

 

[icehorse]

And now you are trying to pretend you are talking about “chemical” castration.

To be clear, I have been talking about both surgeries and hormones the entire time.

Castrations, bottom surgeries, whatever you want to call them are not performed on minors!

I'd like to know how it is that you are aware of all the things in the world that are not happening! If you can actually do that, we could make a mint!

Late edit: I found the following article. Can we focus on the factual claims made therein?

Number of transgender children seeking treatment surges in U.S.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'll stick with the National Library of Medicine if you don't mind terribly


I have never said otherwise! All I've said is that puberty blockers have many serious, long term side effects.

Yeah selective cognitive bias is kind of your MO. It's why nobody takes you seriously.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

But even that is an extremely consequential claim that you ought to have extremely good evidence for, correct?

I'm still skeptical it's an extraordinary claim. For "extremely good evidence", I'd just look to the current medical consensus of that, though.

There are a lot of incredible claims people make. Such as about the Great Flood and the Ark, talking donkeys, the story of Jonah, etc. But a percentage of the population being trans, doesn't seem extraordinary, especially with the same phenomena happening in the animal kingdom.

Furthermore, on a slightly unrelated note, those who claim they just want to "protect" youth, will want one thing to happen to "protect" them, then advocate for much much much more harmful things, quite often. It's almost like their stance, at times, isn't about the children and what's best for them at all.

 

[fantome profane]

I'd like to know how it is that you are aware of all the things in the world that are not happening! If you can actually do that, we could make a mint!

Is that all ya got? “Prove it didn’t happen”.

Dude, ya screwed up, bad. You are not going to get out of it by trying to shift the burden.

 

[icehorse]

But a percentage of the population being trans, doesn't seem extraordinary, especially with the same phenomena happening in the animal kingdom.

But I'm not arguing that point.

Furthermore, on a slightly unrelated note, those who claim they just want to "protect" youth, will want one thing to happen to "protect" them, then advocate for much much much more harmful things, quite often. It's almost like their stance, at times, isn't about the children and what's best for them at all.

Yup, that indeed happens too often. But that is separate from my argument.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Despite growing evidence to the contrary, I'm going to assume you're debating in good faith. In that spirit I'd ask you to review THE CONTEXT in which I made that response. I was not watering down anything, thank you very much.

Yes, it was. The topic is about trans and you inserted all over that. Of course we need to be concerned about youth suicede, and address the issues leading to that like bullying. But we are discusing trans, not everyone. That is why it waters down the issue.
The context is also that you lacked context. What you presented was done in such a way that one could infer being trans in and of itself. But that isn't the case.

Minority Stress and Mental Health: A Review of the Literature - PubMed

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) populations experience significant health disparities, theorized to result from LGBT specific minority stressors. The fully conceptualized Minority Stress Model was published more than 15 years ago. Minority stressors include external conditions and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[icehorse]

Yeah selective cognitive bias is kind of your MO

Can you explain that? thanks!

It's why nobody takes you seriously.

Yet another slur! Can we please stick to debating the ideas? Pretty please?

 

[icehorse]

Back later or tomorrow...

 

[Kenny]

This whole thread you've been saying transpeople are lying and demanding others participate in that lie. Ergo you wouldn't love this trans-person but you'd upfront think this person is a liar according to your own posts.

So, basically, we are all liars because we all have lied?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So, basically, we are all liars because we all have lied?

Christ, stop putting words in my mouth!

 

[Father Heathen]

So, basically, we are all liars because we all have lied?

Here's a way to look at it: I think your religious beliefs are is false, but I wouldn't consider you a liar if you genuinely believe them. Lying implies deliberate deceit. Being misguided or mistaken isn't the same.

 

[metis]

"trans youth face issues not faced by others"

I agree. Transgenders suffer a higher percent of mental issues/conditions compared to the general population.

Table 1.​

Mental Health Diagnoses Among Transgender Patients and the General Population

Diagnosis​	Transgender population​	Control population​
n=10,270 (%)​	n=53,449,400 (%)​
Mood disorder​	4720 (46)​	4,802,280 (9.0)​
Major depressive disorder​	3210 (31)​	2,549,270 (4.8)​
Dysthymia​	700 (6.8)​	739,450 (1.4)​
Bipolar disorder​	1200 (11)​	685,300 (1.3)​
Anxiety disorder​	3220 (31)​	3,194,050 (6.0)​
General anxiety disorder​	1260 (12)​	1104270 (2.0)​
Panic disorder​	460 (4.4)​	393,690 (0.74)​
Phobic disorder​	300 (2.9)​	77,830 (0.15)​
Social phobia​	220 (2.1)​	29,860 (0.06)​
Agoraphobia​	90 (0.87)​	43,660 (0.08)​
Post-traumatic stress disorder​	690 (6.7)​	275,730 (0.52)​
Obsessive compulsive disorder​	210 (2.0)​	113,200 (0.21)​
Psychotic disorder​
Schizophrenia​	260 (2.5)​	196,820 (0.37)​
Schizoaffective disorder​	230 (2.2)​	88,140 (0.16)​
Adjustment disorder​	830 (8.1)​	631,320 (1.2)​
Dissociative disorder​	130 (1.3)​	51,690 (0.10)​
Somatoform disorder​	100 (0.97)​	96,410 (0.18)​
Personality disorder​	610 (5.9)​	199,860 (0.37)​
Cluster a personality disorder​	20 (0.19)​	6750 (0.01)​
Cluster b personality disorder​	350 (3.4)​	62,660 (0.11)​
Borderline personality disorder​	320 (3.1)​	47,390 (0.09)​
Cluster C personality disorder​	20 (0.19)​	7700 (0.01)​
Eating disorder​	210 (2.0)​	133,510 (0.25)​
ADHD​	1070 (10)​	916,370 (1.7)​
PDD​	250 (2.4)​	109,710 (0.20)​
Autism​	150 (1.5)​	83,760 (0.16)​
Chemical dependence​
Substance use disorder​	1040 (10)​	1,410,960 (2.6)​
Alcohol​	440 (4.2)​	737,820 (1.4)​
Cannabis​	390 (3.8)​	334,230 (0.63)​
Cocaine​	140 (1.4)​	144,200 (0.27)​
Opioid​	120 (1.2)​	157,150 (0.27)​
Amphetamine​	80 (0.77)​	69,940 (0.13)​
Tobacco user​	2380 (23)​	5,252,940 (9.8)​
Percentage with at least one diagnosis​	5940 (58)​	7,311,780 (13.6)​

�

Mental Health Diagnoses Among Transgender Patients in the Clinical Setting: An All-Payer Electronic Health Record Study - PMC

We performed a cross-sectional analysis of the prevalence of psychiatric diagnoses among transgender patients in clinical care using an all-payer electronic health record database. Of 10,270 transgender patients identified, 58% (n=5940) had at least ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thus, doncha think any such decision should be left up to them and their doctor versus governments???