The WORD of GOD... really?

[gzusfrk]

what exactly do you mean by "that could be a problem"?

According to the NT the Word is alive and active, it will judge you on the last day, it can convict your heart, it saves your soul, if it does nothing for you I recon you are not a child of god or was not chosen, at that point it ****** me off so I began to read and study and pray, 25 years later I came to know Him through His Word. And know His word fairly well.

 

[Luminous]

I’d honestly like to get a response from individuals here who proclaim that the bible is the WORD of GOD. How can you, in your heart-of-hearts, believe this to be true? Surely you don’t believe that GOD actually sat down and wrote the words that you read in this book. You do comprehend that every single word within the bible was written by fallible, imperfect human beings, right? And that fallible, imperfect human beings have been deciding for thousands of years how to translate various passages from long dead languages, fighting over and deciding what parts to include and what parts to take out. Do you honestly believe that over thousands of years people haven’t altered what is in this book in order to further their own selfish gains? How then do you explain the fact that there are so many different versions of the WORD of GOD?

So clearly what we have here is not the WORD of GOD, but rather, various fallible, imperfect human being’s interpretation and personal belief as to what the WORD of GOD is.

Idols always give comfort... to those who believe in them.

 

[Pegg]

My issue is that people are turning towards the bible for answers about God instead of looking within. If you sincerely believe that God speaks to us, why look towards what people thousands of years ago claim God said to them instead of developing a personal relationship with God and listening to what God says to you?

I dont believe that God speaks to us and I know he's never spoken to me personally but I do believe that he speaks to us through the pages of the bible.
If it were not for the information in there, I would never have come to know God. I can look around at the world and see aspects of his personality in his creations, but that doesn't tell me his purposes or his plans or why we die. The bible is answer to the questions science cannot provide for us.

How can anyone genuinely experience for themselves what God IS if they are preprogrammed by someone else's interpretation of what they believe God should be?

so how do you get to know about God without the bible?

 

[Beta]

You fail to address exactly who's version of God's "black and white" laws and commandments we are ALL supposed to OBEY.

Let's start at the bottm. We are talking about christianity, the Bible ? As far as I know the Creator God inspired the Bible to be written. HE set Rules (Commandments), Laws and Regulations for HIS creation. Admittedly many of the OT Laws have either been fulfilled or changed so we can now concentrate on those carried over into the NT ie; the 10 Commandments as given in Ex.20 and mentioned by Jesus in the NT Mat.19v17 and throughout the NT.
Keeping these is only the beginning of righteous living, a start in our life as we learn more and more - grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Doing so will bring us peace and good-will , doing away with much evil this world suffers from. :yes:

 

[Pegg]

Yet, "The Hairy he-goat stands for the king of Greece." can be interpreted in more than one way. Does it mean that the hairy he-goat IS the king of Greece or does it mean that the hairy he-goat is someone who stands WITH or for the king of Greece? So even the passages that seem obvious to you remain questionable to others.

I guess you're right on that point...hence why there are so many different denominations teaching different things

But it would be unreasonable that to assume that God would use representatives right throughout the history of mankind...people who were enlightened and who had accurate knowledge of him...but in our times, leave the world without a means of accurate knowledge.

Daniel prophesied about our days and he was told that 'true knowledge would become abundant' in the 'last days' Daniel 12:4
“As for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.”

If you lived in ancient times and you wanted to know about the God of the bible, it would be easy to recognize the people who had accurate knowledge of God...they were the jewish prophets, Christ, John the Baptist and later the disciples of Christ...they were the ones running around from city to city proclaiming Gods messages to the people. The messages they proclaimed have never stopped being proclaimed in the earth. True knowledge is abundant...its up to individuals to look for it and recognize it.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

According to the NT the Word is alive and active, it will judge you on the last day, it can convict your heart, it saves your soul, if it does nothing for you I recon you are not a child of god or was not chosen, at that point it ****** me off so I began to read and study and pray, 25 years later I came to know Him through His Word. And know His word fairly well.

so if it doesn't work for someone else, the way it worked for you, then they are somehow disqualified or cut from the team?
couldn't there be a simpler answer? something like: certain scriptures bring about a certain response from certain people and not others.

 

[Beta]

so if it doesn't work for someone else, the way it worked for you, then they are somehow disqualified or cut from the team?
couldn't there be a simpler answer? something like: certain scriptures bring about a certain response from certain people and not others.

When God gets our attention he wants US to change - not others ! That is a huge problem with most of us - we always want others to change. To come out of this world WE PERSONALLY must be prepared to hear, obey and follow Christ/God in spite of what others say or do. Far too many concern themselves with others views or opinions. That may be intersting but won't help.

 

[Etritonakin]

But aren't you basically saying then that the actual writings have no intrinsic meaning, since they are subject to individual interpretation? And it's not only a matter of interpretation, but what each generation decides is important in this book that needs to be stressed, and which parts can safely be ignored. Shouldn't a personal relationship with God be based upon one's own personal relationship with God and not by putting our blind faith into interpretations of God written by other people thousands of years ago?

No -I am saying that their intrinsic meaning is hidden from some -revealed to others -in order.

As far as translations go, there are some which include the most ancient texts available -and the definitions of the words of the original language.

A personal relationship with God is excellent -but even the bible states that none can come to God except God calls them to do so -unless HE initiates the relationship -many who believe they have a "personal relationship" with God do not.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. [holy spirit]

Actually -the above is a good example.... One of the most important things to understand in the bible is the holy spirit.

Due to translations based on the beliefs of the translators, the holy spirit has been personified -as we see in the capitalization of "Holy Ghost".

The bible defines the holy spirit thusly....

2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Yet the capitalization of "Holy Spirit" -and translations of words which can mean WHICH as well as WHO -to WHO rather than IT -have led many to believe that the holy spirit is a third person of the "godhead".......

more later

 

[Midnight Pete]

So the heaven or hell thing is just a joke? He's not forcing us on this ultimatum?

It's no joke.
Yes, we're being forced to choose, but what we choose is up to us.

 

[TEXASBULL]

It's no joke.
Yes, we're being forced to choose, but what we choose is up to us.

Have you ever seen one or both of these places?

 

[gzusfrk]

couldn't there be a simpler answer? something like: certain scriptures bring about a certain response from certain people and not others.

Very true.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Have you ever seen one or both of these places?

I have caught glimpses of both heaven and hell here on Earth.

I think that's what Earth is for.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I dont believe that God speaks to us and I know he's never spoken to me personally but I do believe that he speaks to us through the pages of the bible.
If it were not for the information in there, I would never have come to know God. I can look around at the world and see aspects of his personality in his creations, but that doesn't tell me his purposes or his plans or why we die. The bible is answer to the questions science cannot provide for us.



so how do you get to know about God without the bible?

Ah, okay... if God does not speak to you, then you clearly don't have a personal relationship with God. I suspect that the reason that is so is because you are searching for God using someone else's book. That's like trying to build your own perfect dream house by using the blueprints to someone else's perfect dream house... it's never going to work.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Let's start at the bottm. We are talking about christianity, the Bible ? As far as I know the Creator God inspired the Bible to be written. HE set Rules (Commandments), Laws and Regulations for HIS creation. Admittedly many of the OT Laws have either been fulfilled or changed so we can now concentrate on those carried over into the NT ie; the 10 Commandments as given in Ex.20 and mentioned by Jesus in the NT Mat.19v17 and throughout the NT.
Keeping these is only the beginning of righteous living, a start in our life as we learn more and more - grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Doing so will bring us peace and good-will , doing away with much evil this world suffers from. :yes:

I guess that this is my point... you say "As far as I know..." or a better way to put it is "As far as I've been told by some other fallible human being..." God inspired the bible. Thus your blind faith is not in God, but rather in the words and opinions of imperfect humans. Where is your personal relationship with God? Not a relationship based upon someone else's blueprint of what God should be, but truly YOUR relationship with God. Establish one and you don't need someone else's book.

 

[QuestioningMind]

A personal relationship with God is excellent -but even the bible states that none can come to God except God calls them to do so -unless HE initiates the relationship -many who believe they have a "personal relationship" with God do not.

I beg to differ... anyone who genuinely has a personal relationship with God does not need anyone else's book in order to establish that relationship. In fact, anyone with a personal relationship to God knows that following someone else's blueprint to finding God will lead you down a false path.

[QUOTEDue to translations based on the beliefs of the translators, the holy spirit has been personified -as we see in the capitalization of "Holy Ghost".][/QUOTE]

You are blindly putting your faith into the "beliefs of the translators" and not into God. I'd be far more impressed to hear the messages that God has given to YOU, not messages fallible human's claim God gave to them thousands of years ago. People act as if God ceased existing thousands of years ago and so we're stuck relying on messages he gave to other people. Why is that?

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

When God gets our attention he wants US to change - not others ! That is a huge problem with most of us - we always want others to change. To come out of this world WE PERSONALLY must be prepared to hear, obey and follow Christ/God in spite of what others say or do. Far too many concern themselves with others views or opinions. That may be intersting but won't help.

so you would agree then that there are certain people who, no matter what, by no fault of their own, will never feel the same way about the bible that you do and might read it and move on without a second thought.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Indeed, said to make the point that, unless you are in fact ignorant enough to
believe that God actually sat down to write the bible, every word written in the bible (or any holy manuscript) was actually written by fallible human beings.

You are a fallible human but managed to quote me correctly.

 

[QuestioningMind]

You are a fallible human but managed to quote me correctly.

True, I did, and it's IS possible to accurately quote another, but why put your faith into the quoted words of a fallible human being instead of seeking answers from God directly? And if you don't believe that God can communicate with YOU today, why would you believe that God communicated with others thousands of years ago?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

True, I did, and it's IS possible to accurately quote another, but why put your faith into the quoted words of a fallible human being instead of seeking answers from God directly? And if you don't believe that God can communicate with YOU today, why would you believe that God communicated with others thousands of years ago?

More Biblical ignorance.

 

[QuestioningMind]

More Biblical ignorance.

Ignorance? Please enlighten me. Are you saying that it is not possible to have a personal relationship with God? That, in fact, God has to be filtered through the words in the bible in order to be valid?