Theists: Atheism is a Religion?

[MJFlores]

The Canterbury tales were written before our grand daddies were born too, doesn't mean they are real.

Is this the best argument you have? A desperate attempt to convince me that dead people are really just sleeping?

That is right Mr. T.

Just saying that you shouldn't blame me why the Bible says sleep = dead.
Our great grand daddies are asleep and as the Bible says they will be awaken.

Job 14:12 New King James Version (NKJV)

So man lies down and does not rise.
Till the heavens are no more,
They will not awake
Nor be roused from their sleep.

It is not really a desperate attempt but a reality of which we will all see when "the heavens are no more"
All people who died thousands of years will be awaken - to be what?

Daniel 12:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Were the prophecies of Christ fulfilled in Matt 24, you betcha!

Don't you lie down on me Mr. T.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Canterbury tales were written before our grand daddies were born too, doesn't mean they are real.

Is this the best argument you have? A desperate attempt to convince me that dead people are really just sleeping?

 

[Tiberius]

That is right Mr. T.

Just saying that you shouldn't blame me why the Bible says sleep = dead.
Our great grand daddies are asleep and as the Bible says they will be awaken.

Job 14:12 New King James Version (NKJV)

So man lies down and does not rise.
Till the heavens are no more,
They will not awake
Nor be roused from their sleep.

It is not really a desperate attempt but a reality of which we will all see when "the heavens are no more"
All people who died thousands of years will be awaken - to be what?

Daniel 12:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Were the prophecies of Christ fulfilled in Matt 24, you betcha!

Don't you lie down on me Mr. T.

Repeatedly telling me this same flawed argument is not going to convince me.

Have you got anything else, or just the repetition of this ridiculous claim that dead is just sleeping?

 

[MJFlores]

Repeatedly telling me this same flawed argument is not going to convince me.

Have you got anything else, or just the repetition of this ridiculous claim that dead is just sleeping?

Just pointing things out.
Those did not come from me
I didn't even reasoned out
What is written there, I just showed you the way

Psalm 7:5
then let my enemy pursue and overtake me; let him trample my life to the ground and make me sleep in the dust.

Let us face it parts of Matthew 24 spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ were fulfilled
We were not even born yet when it happened.
It was the beginning of sorrows

I think our sorrows continue
Life is getting harder each day

There is famine and earthquakes left and right
Sabre rattling between nations and terrorism

Soon the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is being spread
and when it reach fulfillment - as you said in your previous post
"The End" will come.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What is written Mr. T is larger than you and me.
Those words were written even before our Grand Daddies were born.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 New International Version (NIV)
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.

Church day today, don't you sleep - ok?

So what?

 

[Tiberius]

Just pointing things out.
Those did not come from me
I didn't even reasoned out
What is written there, I just showed you the way

Psalm 7:5
then let my enemy pursue and overtake me; let him trample my life to the ground and make me sleep in the dust.

Let us face it parts of Matthew 24 spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ were fulfilled
We were not even born yet when it happened.
It was the beginning of sorrows

I think our sorrows continue
Life is getting harder each day

There is famine and earthquakes left and right
Sabre rattling between nations and terrorism

Soon the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is being spread
and when it reach fulfillment - as you said in your previous post
"The End" will come.

Yeah, it's called a METAPHOR. It doesn't mean it is literally true.

Like if someone is described as being as strong as an oak tree, or has eyes as sharp as an eagle, do you really think they literally have the strength of an actual oak tree? Do you really think they can spot a rabbit in the grass from a mile away?

 

[MJFlores]

So what?

 

[MJFlores]

Yeah, it's called a METAPHOR. It doesn't mean it is literally true.

Like if someone is described as being as strong as an oak tree, or has eyes as sharp as an eagle, do you really think they literally have the strength of an actual oak tree? Do you really think they can spot a rabbit in the grass from a mile away?

Mr. T, I wish it were a metaphor but as I have shown you a couple of verses
from the OT, from what Jesus said, from what apostle Paul wrote and from what apostle Peter wrote
death is sleep

Now what is the real death
What does the bible say?

Proverbs 10:16 New International Version (NIV)
The wages of the righteous is life,
but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death.

To make it clearer and precise:

Romans 6:23 New International Version (NIV)
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We all die, whether we like it or not
Does that mean, we have paid our sins through our death?
No, because that is just sleeping
When is death, really death?

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Now that is the death which is not being asleep.
Now that is the real pass away

You have read Matt 24
The prophetic words of the Lord Jesus Christ were fulfilled and are being fulfilled

nation vs nation, kingdom vs kingdom, rumors of war?
https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/world-war-i-history

famine?
Six unexpected WW1 battlegrounds

earthquakes?
List of earthquakes in 1914 - Wikipedia

pestilence?
https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/1918-flu-pandemic

All of these occurred during 1914-1918, the four year period marked the beginning of sorrows.
That is over 100 years ago
And the true gospel of Jesus is being preached
And when it is preached throughout the world
What would happen?

Matthew 24:30-31 New International Version (NIV)
“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Why most people of the earth would mourn?

 

[Tiberius]

Mr. T, I wish it were a metaphor but as I have shown you a couple of verses
from the OT, from what Jesus said, from what apostle Paul wrote and from what apostle Peter wrote
death is sleep

Now what is the real death
What does the bible say?

Proverbs 10:16 New International Version (NIV)
The wages of the righteous is life,
but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death.

To make it clearer and precise:

Romans 6:23 New International Version (NIV)
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We all die, whether we like it or not
Does that mean, we have paid our sins through our death?
No, because that is just sleeping
When is death, really death?

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Now that is the death which is not being asleep.
Now that is the real pass away

You have read Matt 24
The prophetic words of the Lord Jesus Christ were fulfilled and are being fulfilled

nation vs nation, kingdom vs kingdom, rumors of war?
https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/world-war-i-history

famine?
Six unexpected WW1 battlegrounds

earthquakes?
List of earthquakes in 1914 - Wikipedia

pestilence?
https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/1918-flu-pandemic

All of these occurred during 1914-1918, the four year period marked the beginning of sorrows.
That is over 100 years ago
And the true gospel of Jesus is being preached
And when it is preached throughout the world
What would happen?

Matthew 24:30-31 New International Version (NIV)
“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

View attachment 27487

Why most people of the earth would mourn?

View attachment 27488

Wow.

I tell you that I am not convinced by Bible passages, and you throw more Bible passages at me.

You aren't actually interested in a reasonable discussion are you?

 

[MJFlores]

Wow.

I tell you that I am not convinced by Bible passages, and you throw more Bible passages at me.

You aren't actually interested in a reasonable discussion are you?

Sorry got carried away.

Well, where are we?

 

[SkepticThinker]

So it's old. So what?

 

[MJFlores]

So it's old. So what?

Its old?
it is must have been there for the longest time.
Now that is old, and I lost where we are at.

How is Justin Trudeau?
Sad on the thing he is in.
If that happens in my country.
He could easily brush that aside.
And it would be old news in a week.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I haven't found any for atheism so I'm willing to be educated on this matter when you tell me where yours come from. Thanks!

Atheism had a strong foundational belief that there is no God. They have faith that is right, or they would not ask for evidence to prove otherwise.

They have Faith that our spiritual reality does not exist.

Regards Tony

 

[Tiberius]

Sorry got carried away.

Well, where are we?

You were trying to show me an actual prophecy in the Bible that doesn't fit into one of these categories...

1. Things that are likely to happen anyway (like if I said there was going to be an earthquake in Japan.)
2. Prophecies that were made AFTER the events that fulfilled them, but then claimed to have come from before the event (like if I wrote down a prophecy about the 9/11 attacks and then claimed I wrote it in 1985).
3. Prophecies that were created by alterations of earlier texts (like if I had an old diary entry that said I wanted to marry my girlfriend back then and I changed the girlfriend's name to my current partner).
4. Prophecies that are phrased in extremely vague terms so that they could mean anything (like if I said, "There will come a day when the eagle will fly above the two warring brothers. And one of them will be attacked by a lion and his brother will save him at the cost of his own life". That could be interpreted in so many ways).
5. Someone just made up the event that fulfilled the prophecy (like if my friend showed me a prophecy he wrote some time ago and I said, "Yeah, that like totally happened to me the other day" to try to convince some people that my friend could really write prophecies.)

 

[Tiberius]

Atheism had a strong foundational belief that there is no God. They have faith that is right, or they would not ask for evidence to prove otherwise.

They have Faith that our spiritual reality does not exist.

Regards Tony

Nope. Atheists lack belief in God. Not believing in something is different to actively believing that the thing doesn't exist.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Nope. Atheists lack belief in God. Not believing in something is different to actively believing that the thing doesn't exist.

That takes faith, as it is not proved.

Regards Tony

 

[Tiberius]

That takes faith, as it is not proved.

Regards Tony

I do not believe there is a cat in my shower. I do not have a pet cat and I do not see any way in which a cat could have come inside and made it into my shower without my knowledge. Thus, I lack belief in this shower-cat.

However, I can't say that I believe that there is no shower-cat at all. A cat sitting in my shower is a plausible thing, and I can't eliminate the possibility (short of going to look for myself).

Do you understand now how a lack of belief in a thing is different to actively disbelieving in that thing?

 

[MJFlores]

You were trying to show me an actual prophecy in the Bible that doesn't fit into one of these categories...

1. Things that are likely to happen anyway (like if I said there was going to be an earthquake in Japan.)
2. Prophecies that were made AFTER the events that fulfilled them, but then claimed to have come from before the event (like if I wrote down a prophecy about the 9/11 attacks and then claimed I wrote it in 1985).
3. Prophecies that were created by alterations of earlier texts (like if I had an old diary entry that said I wanted to marry my girlfriend back then and I changed the girlfriend's name to my current partner).
4. Prophecies that are phrased in extremely vague terms so that they could mean anything (like if I said, "There will come a day when the eagle will fly above the two warring brothers. And one of them will be attacked by a lion and his brother will save him at the cost of his own life". That could be interpreted in so many ways).
5. Someone just made up the event that fulfilled the prophecy (like if my friend showed me a prophecy he wrote some time ago and I said, "Yeah, that like totally happened to me the other day" to try to convince some people that my friend could really write prophecies.)

Your 1 to 5 enumeration are noted.
The prophecies of the new testament [NT] were written after 33 AD and before 100 AD.
Since the NT prophecies were that old, they refer to events that will happen beyond 100 AD far in the future.

Example of which is:

Who wrote down the Book of Revelation? Apostle John.
Where did he wrote the Book of Rev? At the island of Patmos when he was in exile
What does it contain? Prophecies of things to come
When were they written down? before 100 AD

Revelation 6:1-2 New International Version (NIV)
I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

History:
In 380 CE, the emperor Theodosius issued the Edict of Thessalonica, which made Christianity, specifically Nicene Christianity, the official religion of the Roman Empire. Most other Christian sects were deemed heretical, lost their legal status, and had their properties confiscated by the Roman state.

When was this written? before 100 AD
When was this fulfilled? 380 CE
Where was this fulfilled? Roman Empire
What does the white horse represent? Nicene Christianity
What does the bow represent? Edict of Thessalonica
What was the crown represent? Emperor Theodosius

What is the proof that the rider rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Its old?
it is must have been there for the longest time.
Now that is old, and I lost where we are at.

How is Justin Trudeau?
Sad on the thing he is in.
If that happens in my country.
He could easily brush that aside.
And it would be old news in a week.

You seemed to be saying that because the Bible is old, therefore it must be true. So I was asking you what the age of it has to do with anything.

Have I misunderstood your point?

 

[SkepticThinker]

That takes faith, as it is not proved.

Regards Tony

It takes no faith whatsoever.