theists attack atheism because they are insecure

[DavidFirth]

And if we do our own research, investigate the Bible and other works which claim to be truthful, study those who have commented and consider the history; if we have done all that and find your claims to be ludicrous, then what?

Then you've been deceived. One can lead a horse to water but one cannot force him to drink it.

 

[Polymath257]

The resurrection is all the evidence one needs.

Not really. Even if the evidence of the resurrection was valid (and it is actually quite weak and implausible), it would be very far from showing the divinity of anything or anyone.

 

[Polymath257]

Then you've been deceived. One can lead a horse to water but one cannot force him to drink it.

I would agree with the statement, but find it to apply to theists.

 

[DavidFirth]

There is a claim of a Holy Spirit, but no evidence of such. So we have a man talking without evidence and from his own opinions. Contrast that to those who speak because of the evidence and because of reason.

I'll take the scientist over an evangelist any day.

Of course. One doesn't put new wine into old wineskins. Else the skins will burst and the wine is wasted. The one who lacks faith prefers his own path.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If they are atheist, it would be more people are impacting the world based on his existence rather than his existence in and of itself unless they believe he exists.

If so, I'd ask the atheist to prove there is a "God" so I'd know how he influences the world without believers influence in the matter. (Same as asking a christian to prove god exist without the bible). Prove god exist without theist. If god is actually doing harm (or giving blessings), show me how the definition of the christian god (since I understand to an extent Hindu god) exists first before addressing the problems they have of him.

Interesting post.
Two quick points;

1) I know it's not about me, but I was careful with my turn of phrase. People believing in his existence impacts the world. He doesn't impact the world at all, in my opinion.

2) You need to allow for turn of phrase. If I'm talking to an Evangelical, I might suggest their God is small-minded for believing homosexuality is a sin (as an example). This doesn't mean I believe in their God, but I'm phrasing for them. Or that I can't be bothered saying 'you are small-minded, and you're using God to justify it'.

 

[Polymath257]

Of course. One doesn't put new wine into old wineskins. Else the skins will burst and the wine is wasted. The one who lacks faith prefers his own path.

Faith is a dereliction of the duty to think for oneself. Reason is far superior.

 

[DavidFirth]

Faith is a dereliction of the duty to think for oneself. Reason is far superior.

Faith is the hope for things not yet seen. You're reasoning ability seems to be lacking in your definition.

 

[Polymath257]

Faith is the hope for things not yet seen. You're reasoning ability seems to be lacking in your definition.

I have plenty of hope. But it is based on evidence and reason. I don't have any belief (or hope) in any deities.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Those are all your opinions only.

No, those are all found in the Bible.

Also, you ignore all the Bible says about righteous judgement

What god calls righteous I call evil, such as any man who would offer his daughters to a gang for raping, regardless the reason.

good works and love.

In Wallachia, there was very little crime under the reign of Vlad Dracul III, and some of the little remaining evidence of him shows him siding with the poor. That doesn't mean, however, that he wasn't an extremely violent, sadistic, and cruel man (In reality, when it comes to killing, he makes Hitler look like a merciful saint).

 

[crossfire]

Lately I've seen a **** ton of posts attacking atheism, with screwy logic at best, but usually incoherent either way.

Now, I get why atheists attack religion. They see it as a threat, and sometimes they are right. But not always. But at least their reasoning has some basis in fact. Now when theists attack atheists... usually it's accusing them of being liars, or saying that somehow it "doesn't make sense". I dunno, it seems if I had to place a bet, I'd probably side with atheism 4 out of 5 times.

I've seen a lot of the old classic arguments, a lot of them even I didn't dare touch when I was a theist myself. but nowdays it seems as if the fundamentalist christian rhetoric is now too mainstream. People accusing atheists of being atheists so they can sin, that they only are atheists because something bad happened to them or that somehow they are just in denial.

But it seems to me, that if your religion is so apparent (let's ignore that you were probably brought up to believe in it or at least it's the dominant spiritual force where you live) then it wouldn't have all these atheists around. Maybe, just maybe, them being so open about it, the fact that many left religion because they learned more about it, maybe that scares you. Because you realize deep down you've had doubts yourself, and are often just going through the motions. It seems that some types of theists are obsessed with the atheist. Their fixation on how wrong they are, is a reflection of their own projection. Kind of like how the strongest homophobic preachers were often caught with other men.

I dunno, just my two cents. It isn't particularly my fight, I'm not an atheist or theist, but still. You can't really disprove atheism, other than to prove theism. Theism can't be disproved because there is always another possible way for there to be a god, but that doesn't mean it's correct, and at a certain point it's not reasonable to believe anymore when enough versions of it's been disproven (as have many in the past). Where you draw that line is subjective, and there will always be some who are theists and atheists.

And I don't see anything wrong with that. What I do see wrong, is people attacking each other with strawmen.

Is it any wonder that I'm a transtheist? All of the baggage attached to the theist/atheist paradigm propagates even more problems and mental hang-ups. It's not a useful paradigm at all. I just drop it.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Is it any wonder that I'm a transtheist?

Which public bathroom do you have to use?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

People accusing atheists of being atheists so they can sin, that they only are atheists because something bad happened to them or that somehow they are just in denial.

Which is funny because I find the logic "Jesus saves me" to be a justification to avoid doing anything Jesus actually said to do.

It blinds men to the truth and leads them to destruction.

And yet if theism is objective truth, it'd be apparent more often.

We care about you therefore we plead with you not to believe all of this atheistic jargon.

It's God's business who will go to Heaven, not yours.

It is a cleverly devised lie.

You mean like how many theologies tend to serve the leaders of the spiritual groups and are really irrelevant to what an actual deity would need?

Which men? All men?

And since I'm a cis woman, I guess I shouldn't care?

Arrogance? Because we care about you?

Because you have the audacity to be telling God essentially that you must sign off on whom He can love and appreciate. Let God do God.

I expect people who ask such questions to do their own research and arrive at their own decision.

They did. They decided you had no claim to Truth and became atheists.

Your pride is all you've got.

And going around bragging about being exempted from punishment for wrong actions isn't pride? That's what Christianity sounds like to many people: "You are all going to burn but I bought a get out of jail free card so nyah nyah nyah boo boo."

Stack that up against the Apostle Paul and well, you should know who I choose to believe.

Didn't realize Paul got promoted to God.

Humans lie and do not know everything there is to know.

Didn't realize Paul wasn't human.

God obviously exists according to the linked verse.

Japan clearly exists, so I don't understand why you wouldn't believe it was formed from droplets of water falling from a god's spear.

Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ. The holy spirit spoke through Paul.

Why do you not believe him?

Because ...

Humans lie and do not know everything there is to know.

Simple. Because there is only one absolute truth. And you have not yet found it or you have found it and rejected it.

Absolute Truth wouldn't just concern itself with a few random ancient Middle Eastern people.

There is no other name under heaven by which men might be saved.

Which lying human said this?

Believe God. He is always right and knows everything. All others are only guessing.

God told me humans wrote the bible and He didn't say half that stuff. Now what?

Romans 1:20 says it is obvious that God created. Why do you need evidence for something that is obvious? Is it because you just do not wish to believe God?

I saw a documentary where a coyote and badger teamed up to go hunting, which is obvious proof the myth in one of my Native American myth books is real. Old Man Coyote was a real shapeshifting guy who loved to trick others into doing his work for him. Unlike the bible, I have seen actual proof on a documentary. What do YOU have?

Oh. So you don't believe the book of Romans because it was written by one man, filled with the Holy Spirit.

He SAID he was. Humans lie, remember?

Then why he did he choose to be executed rather than recant?

The only reason he brought up his Roman citizenship was to try to avoid getting killed. Like many apostles and Jesus, martyrdom is only okay when running away like a scared little bunny is no longer available as an option.

What's wrong with what's written in that "Book"?

Paul is a self-serving coward who sniffed out his life was going to change when the Romans decided to crack down on Judaism and Christianity was flexible enough at this time to Hellenize more easily and escape most people's radars, so he joined the team he tried to kill off just moments before.

Also, you ignore all the Bible says about righteous judgement, good works and love.

At least the Dharmic religions say gods need to be moral too or face consequences. The bible LOVES "do as I say, not as I do" statements from God.

[1] "The fool says in his heart,'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good" - Psalm 14:1

And amusingly as it is, Jesus said people who call others fools will go to hell, so he and this author are in hell by Jesus' own pronouncement.

The resurrection is all the evidence one needs.

So anyone who comes back to life after CPR should be counted as a god?

 

[crossfire]

Which public bathroom do you have to use?

the non-theist one

 

[DavidFirth]

Which is funny because I find the logic "Jesus saves me" to be a justification to avoid doing anything Jesus actually said to do.


And yet if theism is objective truth, it'd be apparent more often.


It's God's business who will go to Heaven, not yours.


You mean like how many theologies tend to serve the leaders of the spiritual groups and are really irrelevant to what an actual deity would need?


And since I'm a cis woman, I guess I shouldn't care?


Because you have the audacity to be telling God essentially that you must sign off on whom He can love and appreciate. Let God do God.


They did. They decided you had no claim to Truth and became atheists.


And going around bragging about being exempted from punishment for wrong actions isn't pride? That's what Christianity sounds like to many people: "You are all going to burn but I bought a get out of jail free card so nyah nyah nyah boo boo."


Didn't realize Paul got promoted to God.


Didn't realize Paul wasn't human.


Japan clearly exists, so I don't understand why you wouldn't believe it was formed from droplets of water falling from a god's spear.


Because ...



Absolute Truth wouldn't just concern itself with a few random ancient Middle Eastern people.


Which lying human said this?


God told me humans wrote the bible and He didn't say half that stuff. Now what?


I saw a documentary where a coyote and badger teamed up to go hunting, which is obvious proof the myth in one of my Native American myth books is real. Old Man Coyote was a real shapeshifting guy who loved to trick others into doing his work for him. Unlike the bible, I have seen actual proof on a documentary. What do YOU have?


He SAID he was. Humans lie, remember?


The only reason he brought up his Roman citizenship was to try to avoid getting killed. Like many apostles and Jesus, martyrdom is only okay when running away like a scared little bunny is no longer available as an option.


Paul is a self-serving coward who sniffed out his life was going to change when the Romans decided to crack down on Judaism and Christianity was flexible enough at this time to Hellenize more easily and escape most people's radars, so he joined the team he tried to kill off just moments before.


At least the Dharmic religions say gods need to be moral too or face consequences. The bible LOVES "do as I say, not as I do" statements from God.


And amusingly as it is, Jesus said people who call others fools will go to hell, so he and this author are in hell by Jesus' own pronouncement.


So anyone who comes back to life after CPR should be counted as a god?

Which is funny because I find the logic "Jesus saves me" to be a justification to avoid doing anything Jesus actually said to do.


And yet if theism is objective truth, it'd be apparent more often.


It's God's business who will go to Heaven, not yours.


You mean like how many theologies tend to serve the leaders of the spiritual groups and are really irrelevant to what an actual deity would need?


And since I'm a cis woman, I guess I shouldn't care?


Because you have the audacity to be telling God essentially that you must sign off on whom He can love and appreciate. Let God do God.


They did. They decided you had no claim to Truth and became atheists.


And going around bragging about being exempted from punishment for wrong actions isn't pride? That's what Christianity sounds like to many people: "You are all going to burn but I bought a get out of jail free card so nyah nyah nyah boo boo."


Didn't realize Paul got promoted to God.


Didn't realize Paul wasn't human.


Japan clearly exists, so I don't understand why you wouldn't believe it was formed from droplets of water falling from a god's spear.


Because ...



Absolute Truth wouldn't just concern itself with a few random ancient Middle Eastern people.


Which lying human said this?


God told me humans wrote the bible and He didn't say half that stuff. Now what?


I saw a documentary where a coyote and badger teamed up to go hunting, which is obvious proof the myth in one of my Native American myth books is real. Old Man Coyote was a real shapeshifting guy who loved to trick others into doing his work for him. Unlike the bible, I have seen actual proof on a documentary. What do YOU have?


He SAID he was. Humans lie, remember?


The only reason he brought up his Roman citizenship was to try to avoid getting killed. Like many apostles and Jesus, martyrdom is only okay when running away like a scared little bunny is no longer available as an option.


Paul is a self-serving coward who sniffed out his life was going to change when the Romans decided to crack down on Judaism and Christianity was flexible enough at this time to Hellenize more easily and escape most people's radars, so he joined the team he tried to kill off just moments before.


At least the Dharmic religions say gods need to be moral too or face consequences. The bible LOVES "do as I say, not as I do" statements from God.


And amusingly as it is, Jesus said people who call others fools will go to hell, so he and this author are in hell by Jesus' own pronouncement.


So anyone who comes back to life after CPR should be counted as a god?

Gee, somebody got up on the wrong side today. What a pitiful post.

 

[Polymath257]

Gee, somebody got up on the wrong side today. What a pitiful post.

It was actually a very good one. It addressed several points that theists like to ignore.

 

[DavidFirth]

It was actually a very good one. It addressed several points that theists like to ignore.

Opinions are like butt holes, everybody's got one. I'm not impressed.

 

[Polymath257]

Opinions are like butt holes, everybody's got one. I'm not impressed.

In particular,, many theists are just butts.

 

[leibowde84]

Arrogance? Because we care about you?

Because you think you know something for sure that atheists don't. Atheism is based on the fact that there is insufficient evidence for God, thus they are withholding belief based on that lack of evidence.

 

[leibowde84]

God said, I AM. God obviously exists according to the linked verse.

How so? Isn't that circular reasoning. I mean, sure, if you assume that scripture is "God breathed", then God must exist. But, since there is no evidence for that, why do you think that the verse makes God's existence obvious?

 

[DavidFirth]

Because you think you know something for sure that atheists don't. Atheism is based on the fact that there is insufficient evidence for God, thus they are withholding belief based on that lack of evidence.

Well, atheism is also based on faith that no god exists since they can't see one, hear him, etc.

The Spirit reveals truth. Without faith there is no truth. If the Holy Spirit reveals the truth to you then you will know the truth. If you do not have faith you will never know truth.