theists attack atheism because they are insecure

[DavidFirth]

Thank you for reminding my why more often than no Christians irritate the hell out of me more than anything. You keep going that what I believe is wrong, you want to say it is a lie, you want to say I need to believe as you, but yet more often than not when I tell y'all what your Book actually says ya run with your tail tucked between your legs.

The book is a lot more reliable than I am. What's wrong with what's written in that "Book"?

 

[leibowde84]

I think they mean that the people who don't automatically believe, lie on purpose and do in fact believe in everything that the Bible says even if they never heard it.

How could that be true. Why would you think that people who state that they don't believe everything in the Bible be lying? Why do you think you know what they believe better than they do?

I've heard the absurd argument that everyone believes in God, even if they won't admit it. Then, the only support for said absurd argument is that scripture says so. Do you not see that this argument is absolutely false and without merit?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The book is a lot more reliable than I am. What's wrong with what's written in that "Book"?

It condones and permits slavery, it gets the value of pi wrong, genocide is ordered, it's required to kill rebellious children and those who follow/worship other gods, women are below men, it says the earth has corners and there are points high enough to see the entire earth, it claims there was a global flood and the global languages all came from the same place, that slinging bird blood is a good idea when someone is healed of leprosy, and there are many, many, many other things wrong in the "Book."

 

[DavidFirth]

It condones and permits slavery, it gets the value of pi wrong, genocide is ordered, it's required to kill rebellious children and those who follow/worship other gods, women are below men, it says the earth has corners and there are points high enough to see the entire earth, it claims there was a global flood and the global languages all came from the same place, that slinging bird blood is a good idea when someone is healed of leprosy, and there are many, many, many other things wrong in the "Book."

Those are all your opinions only. You take an awful lot out of context, add some and doctor it up to suit you. Also, you ignore all the Bible says about righteous judgement, good works and love.

 

[JustWondering]

I don't depend upon human philosophy. Humans lie and do not know everything there is to know.

Yes, like the humans that made up your religion for instance.

 

[JustWondering]

Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ. The holy spirit spoke through Paul.

Why do you not believe him?

How could you possibly doubt L Ron Hubbard?! You obviously haven't found the truth yourself yet!

 

[DavidFirth]

Yes, like the humans that made up your religion for instance.

How could you possibly doubt L Ron Hubbard?! You obviously haven't found the truth yourself yet!

You trying to be funny? Don't give up your day job.

 

[JustWondering]

Really. Then why he did he choose to be executed rather than recant?

If he was after filthy lucre he sure did a terrible job at storing it all up. Can you show that he was a liar from hard fact or strict logic?

No, you don't get to refuse to back up your statements and then demand others have to back up their statements. Paul was either delusional or a con artist and since you don't have to back up your claims, guess what, I don't have to back up mine.

 

[DavidFirth]

No, you don't get to refuse to back up your statements and then demand others have to back up their statements. Paul was either delusional or a con artist and since you don't have to back up your claims, guess what, I don't have to back up mine.

Oh, okay. Well, you opinion sounds like a bunch of baloney to me. I'll go with Paul.

 

[JustWondering]

Those are all your opinions only.

Wrong, those fantasies are claimed in the bible to be the truth.

My opinion is that those that believe that ancient, superstitious people "filled by the holy spirit" that said that genocide and slavery are honkey dorey, the earth is flat, leprosy can be cured by doing a magical ritual with bird's blood, and that there was a global flood are extremely ignorant and gullible.

You take an awful lot out of context, add some and doctor it up to suit you. Also, you ignore all the Bible says about righteous judgement, good works and love.

Nothing is taken out of context. Nothing needs to be doctored up. There are a lot of ridiculous claims that are made in the bible. It's all ancient mythology, its no more real then stories about Zeus or Odin.

 

[JustWondering]

You trying to be funny? Don't give up your day job.

Showing you that spouting unsupported claims is going to destroy your credibility real fast. At this point, since you obviously have no interest in actual debate no one is going to take anything you have to say seriously. You're just making Christians look bad.

 

[JustWondering]

Oh, okay. Well, you opinion sounds like a bunch of baloney to me. I'll go with Paul.

The bible sounds like baloney to me, I'll go with logic and rational thought over superstition and mysticism.

 

[DavidFirth]

Showing you that spouting unsupported claims is going to destroy your credibility real fast. At this point, since you obviously have no interest in actual debate no one is going to take anything you have to say seriously. You're just making Christians look bad.

Opinion. Not interested.

My pride does not matter, therefore, all of your mishmash does not move me.

 

[DavidFirth]

Wrong, those fantasies are claimed in the bible to be the truth.

My opinion is that those that believe that ancient, superstitious people "filled by the holy spirit" that said that genocide and slavery are honkey dorey, the earth is flat, leprosy can be cured by doing a magical ritual with bird's blood, and that there was a global flood are extremely ignorant and gullible.



Nothing is taken out of context. Nothing needs to be doctored up. There are a lot of ridiculous claims that are made in the bible. It's all ancient mythology, its no more real then stories about Zeus or Odin.

Opinion. Not interested.

 

[DavidFirth]

The bible sounds like baloney to me, I'll go with logic and rational thought over superstition and mysticism.

Opinion. Not interested.

 

[Jumi]

How could that be true. Why would you think that people who state that they don't believe everything in the Bible be lying? Why do you think you know what they believe better than they do?

I've heard the absurd argument that everyone believes in God, even if they won't admit it. Then, the only support for said absurd argument is that scripture says so. Do you not see that this argument is absolutely false and without merit?

I do, and I don't agree with it. I was just trying to point out what the people who call non-believers liars think.

 

[Segev Moran]

Lately I've seen a **** ton of posts attacking atheism, with screwy logic at best, but usually incoherent either way.

I can assume you see the rise because there is a rise of atheists coming forward with their atheism.

It is a lot easier today than it was 10 years ago, and ten years ago it was easier than it was 20 years ago (and so on).

I don't think the attacks on atheists is due to insecurity, but rather fear of realizing that atheists might have a point.

Those who are secure in their religion, usually don't attack atheism (unless they are ignorant). They might debate atheism, but will usually not attack it.

Now, I get why atheists attack religion.

Most of don't.
religion is something that is a part of us being humans.
We do however, attack the idea that something hurtful can be made in the name of religion and be accepted as logical or reasonable. (or in other words, using religion as an excuse for horrible actions)

They see it as a threat

Indeed.
But its not just that.
We see a threat to anything that can make people do horrible things in the name something that cannot be proven.
Religion as only part of the collection.
The same as atheists treat religion, they will usually treat any other belief that is not based on evidence. so North Korea, although not an official religion, still it is a "regime religion".
It is not something specific against religion.
The thing is, that religion is so spread, that once you point something bad about it, people take it personally as if you mention them as bad (which is quite often not true)

, and sometimes they are right.

Depends who

But not always.

Indeed
The fact you are an atheist, doesn't make you always right

But at least their reasoning has some basis in fact.

Agreed,
Although looking from a theists POV, they probably say the exact same about atheists.

Now when theists attack atheists... usually it's accusing them of being liars, or saying that somehow it "doesn't make sense".

I am in this forum quite some time. rarely have i encountered such responses.

I dunno, it seems if I had to place a bet, I'd probably side with atheism 4 out of 5 times.
I've seen a lot of the old classic arguments, a lot of them even I didn't dare touch when I was a theist myself. but nowdays it seems as if the fundamentalist christian rhetoric is now too mainstream. People accusing atheists of being atheists so they can sin, that they only are atheists because something bad happened to them or that somehow they are just in denial.

Yep.. I heard that a lot.
But I know why I did became an atheist, and i assume many share the same reasons as I.
So i don't really care about such arguments.

But it seems to me, that if your religion is so apparent (let's ignore that you were probably brought up to believe in it or at least it's the dominant spiritual force where you live) then it wouldn't have all these atheists around. Maybe, just maybe, them being so open about it, the fact that many left religion because they learned more about it, maybe that scares you. Because you realize deep down you've had doubts yourself, and are often just going through the motions. It seems that some types of theists are obsessed with the atheist. Their fixation on how wrong they are, is a reflection of their own projection. Kind of like how the strongest homophobic preachers were often caught with other men.

I guess some do feel that way, but the same can be said about atheists.

I dunno, just my two cents. It isn't particularly my fight, I'm not an atheist or theist, but still. You can't really disprove atheism, other than to prove theism.

So what is Shiva in your eyes? isn't she a supreme entity?
If so, that makes you a theist, no?

Theism can't be disproved

This is not the issue here.
The issue is that theism is not proven.

because there is always another possible way for there to be a god, but that doesn't mean it's correct

Exactly

, and at a certain point it's not reasonable to believe anymore when enough versions of it's been disproven (as have many in the past). Where you draw that line is subjective, and there will always be some who are theists and atheists.

Maybe. Maybe not

And I don't see anything wrong with that. What I do see wrong, is people attacking each other with strawmen.

Agreed.

 

[Jainarayan]

My thinking does not matter. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. There is no other name under heaven by which men might be saved.

I do have to say, yeah... um... no.

I can give you verses from my scripture that contradict you, and you can't prove them wrong or invalid. You believe what you believe but you can't, nor should you try to prove it. And I don't care to prove either of us right or wrong. That's why it's called faith and belief. Funny how that works!

 

[Jainarayan]

Romans 1:20 says it is obvious that God created. Why do you need evidence for something that is obvious? Is it because you just do not wish to believe God?

The Purusha Sukta of the Rig Veda describes creation. Prove it wrong.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I don't depend upon human philosophy. Humans lie and do not know everything there is to know.

Does that apply to the human beings that hand other people a book and tell them that somebody told them to tell others that a god wrote it?