Theists, please tell me why you believe murder is wrong.

[mikkel_the_dane]

Totally agreed. How many people like that do you think are perusing this forum? I hope they share their opinion here.

I don't recalled having met an Objectivist here on this forum. And yes, they are rare.

 

[F1fan]

Well, yes, but not every killing is a murder

I’ve had numerous cycling friends who have been killed by drunk or inattentive drivers. The law did not accuse them of murder in any of the cases. These weren’t intentional but were lesser crimes. There are many types of crimes where someone dies due to unintentional actions by another.

I believe murder is wrong if done for the wrong reason.

The reasons are debatable. I think the Travon Martin case was a failure of justice.

And yes, wrong is subjective. Where as killing another human can be done for the right reason.

I would have to be due to a person posing a real threat.

 

[Valjean]

Murder is wrong because God, the Creator of life, says it’s wrong. According to the scriptures, human life created in God’s image have value and belong to Him. So for someone to murder and take another life is a crime against that person and God.

So you have no internalized moral system, make no personal judgements, and have no personal beliefs regarding right and wrong, but just consult a rule-book when an issue comes up?

How would this differ from sociopathy?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Now, to be clear I know murder is wrong…

How do you know that?
Why? What basis do you use?

…but I'm curious the reason.

Probably the same as yours.

And BTW, I am a Christian.
At least, I try to be. Following Christ isn’t always easy though, in this world.

 

[VoidCat]

How do you know that?
Why? What basis do you use?

Probably the same as yours.

We dont follow the same religion me being polytheistic but I almost asked the same questions you did.

 

[F1fan]

How do you know that?
Why? What basis do you use?

The word murder is defined as unjustified killing. Murder is wrong by definition.

And BTW, I am a Christian.
At least, I try to be. Following Christ isn’t always easy though, in this world.

Why isn’t it easy? As a non-believer I find it quite easy.

 

[EconGuy]

Murder is a legal term referring to killing under specific circumstances. Homicide is a different matter again according to law.

But colloquially the meaning is different. So that's probably why they asking and why i asked a similar question. We trying to figure out your defination of murder here

Yeah, I included a definition, but re-wrote the OP and forgot to put it back.

Murder is the unjustified killing of another human being (again, setting aside animals for the sake of this thread).

 

[Erebus]

Now, to be clear I know murder is wrong, but I'm curious the reason.

I also know they Bible says murder is wrong, but can someone tell me if that's the root of the reason that you (the theist) believe that it's wrong to murder?

-Cheers

Agnostic polytheist here who puts no stock in what the Bible says.

On the one hand, I would say murder is wrong because my personal moral code is broadly centred on reducing unnecessary suffering where possible. Murder can cause immense suffering not only to the victim but also to the victim's family and friends.

On the other hand, that might simply be my way of rationalising a purely emotional response to murder. If presented with a scenario in which me murdering somebody would prevent much greater suffering (the killing baby Hitler type of thought experiment) then I would still be incredibly squeamish about doing it. It's entirely possible that I flat out wouldn't be able to murder somebody even if I knew for a fact that it was the best way to reduce suffering overall.

 

[EconGuy]

Morality would be living in harmony with God's will.

Would you say that God's will could be anything that god wanted it to be?

 

[VoidCat]

Yeah, I included a definition, but re-wrote the OP and forgot to put it back.

Murder is the unjustified killing of another human being (again, setting aside animals for the sake of this thread).

Then my answer remains the same. Empathy and a wish to not cause anymore suffering then needed

 

[SalixIncendium]

Murder is a subset of killing.

The Christian I mentioned did not consider killing atheists as murder since he did not think it immoral. The only prohibition was secular law that protects all citizens regardless of religion.

It’s obviously murder to kill an atheist for being an atheist. It was absurd that a Christian would have this attitude in the modern era. It’s more 17th century “let’s burn a witch” kind of belief.

This was clearly a fundie wacko. I've never met a Christian that thought this way.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

..me being polytheistic…

Interesting. What gods do you worship? Or do you worship any at all?

 

[EconGuy]

Murder is wrong because God, the Creator of life, says it’s wrong.

1.Could god say that murder is good? If not, why?

 

[VoidCat]

Interesting. What gods do you worship? Or do you worship any at all?

Multiple. Samael, Lilith, Loki, and Bastet. Bastet is my main deity.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The word murder is defined as unjustified killing. Murder is wrong by definition.

Why isn’t it easy? As a non-believer I find it quite easy.

Huh?

You find it easy to ‘follow Christ’?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Multiple. Samael, Lilith, Loki, and Bastet. Bastet is my main deity.

Fascinating!
Thanks for telling me.

I have a bunch of other questions, but this isn’t the thread for it.

Have a good day.

 

[EconGuy]

my personal moral code

Without trying to sound pedantic, I think you mean a moral code that you personally support. Moral codes aren't personal (that is ethics), moral codes are right and wrong in the context of 2 or more people, whereas ethics are about personal behavior.

What would it mean to be moral if you were the only person?

 

[VoidCat]

Fascinating!
Thanks for telling me.

I have a bunch of other questions, but this isn’t the thread for it.

Have a good day.

I made a new thread and tagged you.

 

[EconGuy]

Multiple. Samael, Lilith, Loki, and Bastet. Bastet is my main deity.

I think it's true to say that our beliefs effect our actions. If you believe in these deities, how does your belief effect your actions?

 

[dybmh]

Would you say that God's will could be anything that god wanted it to be?

Yes-and-no. Which is not the most fun answer for some people. On the other hand, if a person is willing and open, it's a lot of fun. It's the most fun answer!

I believe that God is absolutely infinite. This has several important implications on creating a material world of multiplicty. Those implications produce an imperfect world, for lack of better words. As a consequence of God's absolute infinity there are limitations on what God can do to adjust the material world without destroying it. There's stil a lot God can do and does do, in my opinion. I have no doubt.

And in my judgement and analysis, If God is absolutley infinite, the material world requries that God be omnibenevolent too, inorder to sustain the existence of a material world of multiplicty, even though pain suffering hardship crime, etc, all exist. A malevolent god won't work, and a deist god won't work either. Of course any number of other god concepts can be applied. Polytheism is popular for this reason.

Buried in all of the text I would type to explain this would include an explanation of the importance of forbearance. Without it, humanity would never survive for more than a few generations at most.

But, at then end of all of those words, what I'm saying is, at a certain point, in certain key types of expressions of God's will, it's completely binary. There are no shades of gray. There is no dimmer switch. It's on/off, to sustain creation or not. If not, pop goes the bubble of reality and everything collapses back into the source.

So, the answer is yes-and-no. Yes God's will could be anything it wants, but IF it wants a material world then that desire has implications.