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Theists, please tell me why you believe murder is wrong.

VoidCat

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
EconGuy said:
I think it's true to say that our beliefs effect our actions. If you believe in these deities, how does your belief effect your actions?
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Very hard question to answer. Because that's true my belief in them does affect my actions. I may do actions for then in order to honor them. Like im very big on sexual freedom due to honoring Lilith and Bastet. I can be very chaotic and move towards being big on jokes cuz of Loki. But im very much move towards balance cuz i honor Bastet a goddess of order.
 
Erebus

Erebus

Well-Known Member
EconGuy said:
Without trying to sound pedantic, I think you mean a moral code that you personally support. Moral codes aren't personal (that is ethics), moral codes are right and wrong in the context of 2 or more people, whereas ethics are about personal behavior.

What would it mean to be moral if you were the only person?
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I thought it was the other way round but I'll freely admit that I get confused by terminology at times.
 
dybmh

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Quintessence said:
I take it you believe in objective morality, then? That is, morality is an objective property of the universe and not something projected onto it by humans?
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In my judgement, some, very few things, are completely and always wrong. Where that comes from, how that happens, I don't know.

But it is not coming from "just some human said so." I find that repugnant and dangerous.

Strangely, in my view, the converse, "some, very few things are completely and always right" is false. I have yet to objectively find anything in the human imagination that cannot be twisted and corrupted.

And just to be complete, between those two extremes, is an infinite technicolor world of possibility.
 
VoidCat

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
dybmh said:
In my judgement, some, very few things, are completely and always wrong. Where that comes from, how that happens, I don't know.

But it is not coming from "just some human said so." I find that repugnant and dangerous.

Strangely, in my view, the converse, "some, very few things are completely and always right" is false. I have yet to objectively find anything in the human imagination that cannot be twisted and corrupted.
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I strangely agree with this despite the differences in our views on morality
 
VoidCat

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
dybmh said:
In my judgement, some, very few things, are completely and always wrong. Where that comes from, how that happens, I don't know.

But it is not coming from "just some human said so." I find that repugnant and dangerous.

Strangely, in my view, the converse, "some, very few things are completely and always right" is false. I have yet to objectively find anything in the human imagination that cannot be twisted and corrupted.

And just to be complete, between those two extremes, is an infinite technicolor world of possibility.
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Does your religion give any clues where this comes from? I know you said you dont know why it is but that doesn't mean you can't have any guesses or ideas regarding why. Mine shares no views on why there are some things that are 100% wrong no matter what or why there are no things that are 100% right. Other then no one not even the gods is perfect.


Edit: @dybmh to be more clear im asking why your God in your view allows this to be the case.
 
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SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
syo said:
A murderer wants to end someones life. He can't do that because there is afterlife. There are chances the victim will f up the murderer's life.
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Again, as asked in post #87, please share with us how you tested this.
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
dybmh said:
In my judgement, some, very few things, are completely and always wrong. Where that comes from, how that happens, I don't know.

But it is not coming from "just some human said so." I find that repugnant and dangerous.

Strangely, in my view, the converse, "some, very few things are completely and always right" is false. I have yet to objectively find anything in the human imagination that cannot be twisted and corrupted.

And just to be complete, between those two extremes, is an infinite technicolor world of possibility.
Click to expand...
If there are things that are "completely and always wrong," it logically follows that objective morality must exist. For only with an objective standard, could such absolutist statements be made. I'm not sure how you square this without accepting the converse (aka, that some things are completely and always right) but that's for you to sort out. Sometimes, our worldviews contain paradoxes and that's fine.

Interestingly, where you find "just some human said so" repugnant and dangerous, I find absolutist decrees like yours to be the problematic ones. Moral absolutism begets extremism - a dogmatic inflexibility that is incapable of adapting to alternative perspectives or situations. Invariably, different humans with these absolutist extremes will hold to different notions of what is right and wrong, setting up an inevitable collision between peoples. If there is any hope in avoiding such conflicts, it is in being able to negotiate and be flexible - which involves recognizing morals are just stuff we make up rather than some absolute natural/divine/objective law of the universe. If we make it up a certain way, we can un-make it and do things differently. Adaptation is important.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
EconGuy said:
Now, to be clear I know murder is wrong, but I'm curious the reason.

I also know they Bible says murder is wrong, but can someone tell me if that's the root of the reason that you (the theist) believe that it's wrong to murder?

-Cheers
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Why only theists? You say you know murder is wrong?
Is it because the government says that murder is wrong. The government defines when killing is legal and when it is not, i.e. murder.
Is murder simply wrong by definition or is there more to it?
 
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