There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the New Testament

[Trailblazer]

Oh I’m certain they will all say that Jesus rose from the dead and performed many miracles.

They might say that but it would not prove that Jesus rose from the dead and performed many miracles.

 

[Jimmy]

They might say that but it would not prove that Jesus rose from the dead and performed many miracles.

You’re right. Its me who will do that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, there are no sects within the Baha'i Faith, only attempts by Covenant-breakers to start their own religion.

Unfortunately that sounds just like the reactions of the early Christian church to new sects. There may be new sects of Bahai' . Your main church just does not recognize them in the same way that competition was denied by the Catholic church in its early days.

 

[Kenny]

There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the New Testament.

1 John 1: 1 Christ is the Word of Life. He was from the beginning. We have heard Him and have seen Him with our own eyes. We have looked at Him and put our hands on Him. 2 Christ Who is Life was shown to us. We saw Him.

Sounds like an eyewitness to me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

1 John 1: 1 Christ is the Word of Life. He was from the beginning. We have heard Him and have seen Him with our own eyes. We have looked at Him and put our hands on Him. 2 Christ Who is Life was shown to us. We saw Him.

Yes, the Gospel of John tries to claim that it is an eyewitness account. Serious Bible scholars can explain to you why that is very dubious.

 

[GoodAttention]

What a strange thing to say.

Yes, I suppose so, but that person also grinds my gears.

It doesn't matter to me if he is 18 or 80 years old, if you attempt to make a point, then call someone confused for not understanding it, then retract your statement because it never meant what it said, defend it by stating "random is random", and still point out the other person is confused, then it is basically a dementia-circle-jerk.

The same person who thinks the story of Christianity is horrific and psychologically damaging says his go-to story that is "great" is one where Burmese children are blown up by landmines...

 

[Trailblazer]

Unfortunately that sounds just like the reactions of the early Christian church to new sects. There may be new sects of Bahai' . Your main church just does not recognize them in the same way that competition was denied by the Catholic church in its early days.

That analogy to early Christianity does not apply, but I don't have time to explain that right now because I am being chased by more JWs!
Will it ever end?

 

[Kenny]

Yes, the Gospel of John tries to claim that it is an eyewitness account. Serious Bible scholars can explain to you why that is very dubious.

Actually, serious Bible scholars agree with the statement. Pseudo scholars, who act like they are serious, say otherwise.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is a big subject. For starters I believe that Jesus was a Messenger of God and a Manifestation of God, but not God incarnate.
I believe that Jesus sacrificed His life for the sins of all of humanity.

I do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead and I do not believe that Jesus is going to return to earth.
I believe that Jesus is in heaven and there He will remain forever.
I do not believe that Jesus is going to set up a kingdom on earth from heaven, as JWs believe.

I am not a Muslim because I am a Baha'i, but as a Baha'i I believe in Muhammad and other messengers of God.

I do not believe that all roads lead to God. The only road that leads to God is a road that originated from a true messenger of God.

Yes, of course, and that is why Christ warned us not to follow false prophets.

You're not a Muslim because you're a Bahai? That's almost like saying you're not a flower because you're a human.

 

[YoursTrue]

That analogy to early Christianity does not apply, but I don't have time to explain that right now because I am being chased by more JWs!
Will it ever end?

Do you believe there will be an "end," whatever you think that might be or not be.

 

[YoursTrue]

Those are not officially translated Writings of Baha'u'llah so they are not authoritative.
I do not believe that Baha'u'llah ever wrote that but even if He did I would believe the Bible scholars over Baha'u'llah. Sorry Baha'is.

Was Bahaullah the only "eye-witness" of his messages? Did he hear them, or did he think them?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually, serious Bible scholars agree with the statement. Pseudo scholars, who act like they are serious, say otherwise.

Nope, real scholars publish in well respected professional journals where one has to support one's claims and support them with evidence. When you can support your claims with evidence and not apologists making bogus claims then others will take you seriously. Apologists simply are not scholars. You will be hard pressed to find one that is not a liar for Jesus. For some odd reason they do not think that it is a sin if they lie to protect the Christian belief.

 

[Kenny]

Nope, real scholars publish in well respected professional journals where one has to support one's claims and support them with evidence. When you can support your claims with evidence and not apologists making bogus claims then others will take you seriously. Apologists simply are not scholars. You will be hard pressed to find one that is not a liar for Jesus. For some odd reason they do not think that it is a sin if they lie to protect the Christian belief.

Pseudo-scholars submit papers to like minded people and then call it “official” and “peer-reviewed”.

That is called “shopping for a doctor” and “itchy ears”.

You will be hard pressed to find one that is not a liar because they are anti-Jesus.

 

[GoodAttention]

Nope, real scholars publish in well respected professional journals where one has to support one's claims and support them with evidence. When you can support your claims with evidence and not apologists making bogus claims then others will take you seriously. Apologists simply are not scholars. You will be hard pressed to find one that is not a liar for Jesus. For some odd reason they do not think that it is a sin if they lie to protect the Christian belief.

Pious fraud is still fraud.

 

[blü 2]

Guess you’ll never know. I think that’s even in the Bible where it says some people will just never know.

Never know what, exactly? Have you ever met a real God, one who exists in the world external to you whom you perceived via your senses?

Or is it all internal, various brain states and imaginings?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Pseudo-scholars submit papers to like minded people and then call it “official” and “peer-reviewed”.

That is called “shopping for a doctor” and “itchy ears”.

You will be hard pressed to find one that is not a liar because they are anti-Jesus.

No, it is called "being honest". A concept that far too many believers do not seem to understand. Liars for Jesus may comfort you, but you were not going to leave Christianity no matter what. They do little if any good and may even drive away believers on the cusp. When a person sees that a belief can only be defended by dishonest techniques that tends to turn off people that are asking serious questions.

Once again, scholars get in trouble if they lie or use fallacious arguments. That is perfectly okay in the realm of apologetics. As long as they hold to the party line. There is no party line in scholarship. Only the rule that one has to use reliable evidence and rational arguments.

 

[John D. Brey]

That is an allegation. Can you prove it is false?

What the speaker in the video says is completely unfounded allegation. It's so vapid I didn't even want to wade into the mire. I believe I can prove it's false. Would it make a difference if I did? Probably not. These kinds of debates are usually a beauty in the eyes of the beholder kind of thing.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

I've never understood why Jesus was on a suicide mission at all, let alone why such a thing was necessary when an omnipotent God could bring about any state of earthly affairs that [he] pleased, just with one snap of those omnipotent fingers.

There was a time when Stalin, Mao, or Hitler, could snap their fingers and end the life of anyone under their authority. We hope for something better in a God. We hope for a God whose omnipotence is guarded by grace, mercy, and respect for the freewill of the creatures he's created. We hope God's omnipotence is made impotent in the presence of his Salvation. We hope the right hand of God keeps the left hand of God in the dark when Salvation is being purchased beneath the very nose of God's downright ornery omnipotence/Gevurah.



John

 

[Trailblazer]

You're not a Muslim because you're a Bahai? That's almost like saying you're not a flower because you're a human.

No it is not like saying that. It is like you saying "I am not a Baha'i because I am a Christian."

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you believe there will be an "end," whatever you think that might be or not be.

I doubt there will ever be an end to my getting posts from Christians, not as long as as I keep posting to them.