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There are no mistakes in Quran

Shad

Veteran Member
Laraba is a word similar to "Get" in English. Think of all the usages of it. Depends on the context of the verse, not the context of a story written two centuries later.

Yes a context you refuse to look it but instead go to another context then inject it to resolve your issues.

The word strike will have many meanings. It struck me. It struck her. I got a stroke. We put up a strike. etc. The arabic word has more usages than that. It could be a combination of several english words.

Again going to another context thus a shift in definition.

Anyway I do not generally like to quote lexicons because understanding the Quran goes much further and its not simple to make someone understand. Nevertheless, you accused me of quoting you sources I have not read. I quoted you Ghulams dictionary not to suit my agenda but since you mentioned Quranic lexicon which does not exist. And it is easier to read this kind of dictionary if you really wish to read something.

You do not like Lexicons as none agree with your interpretation.

Nevertheless, look at Malik Ghulam Farids dictionary that spoke of so vehemently.

Go look at his English translations of the Quran. This directly contradicts your claims. So either your source is incompetent or your argument is in error.

https://archive.org/stream/TafseerEngCommQuranLong/Tafseer Eng_Comm_Quran Long#page/n517/mode/2up Original
https://archive.org/stream/AhmadiyyaCommentaryQuran#page/n195/mode/2up Abridged

The rest of your tripe has zero merit give the contradiction in the two books linked above made by the same author of the dictionary. I already linked Lane's Lexicon which is also used by my Quran Corpus source which again aligns with my vies not your own.

Again your argument is that all translations are wrong but your own. Translations from people that are fluent in Arabic and English. You fail to see how disconnected your claims are from translations from experts. Translations authorized by Universities such as Al-Azhar.

All I see if twisting of words to fit Western sense of morality while ignoring tradition and experts.
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
Yes a context you refuse to look it but instead go to another context then inject it to resolve your issues.



Again going to another context thus a shift in definition.



You do not like Lexicons as none agree with your interpretation.



Go look at his English translations of the Quran. This directly contradicts your claims. So either your source is incompetent or your argument is in error.

https://archive.org/stream/TafseerEngCommQuranLong/Tafseer Eng_Comm_Quran Long#page/n517/mode/2up Original
https://archive.org/stream/AhmadiyyaCommentaryQuran#page/n195/mode/2up Abridged

The rest of your tripe has zero merit give the contradiction in the two books linked above made by the same author of the dictionary. I already linked Lane's Lexicon which is also used by my Quran Corpus source which again aligns with my vies not your own.

Again your argument is that all translations are wrong but your own. Translations from people that are fluent in Arabic and English. You fail to see how disconnected your claims are from translations from experts. Translations authorized by Universities such as Al-Azhar.

All I see if twisting of words to fit Western sense of morality while ignoring tradition and experts.

Its evident that you dont wanna look at logic, evidence or sources.

So be it.

Cheers.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Its evident that you dont wanna look at logic, evidence or sources.

Rather it is you that refuses to see the disconnect between a dictionary and two translations by the same author of the dictionary that does not support your claims. It is a blatant contradiction which shows your claim is false. After all I am not the one ignoring that same author does not translation his own English versions of the Quran that match your claims. I am the one point it out....

You have provided zero sources. You pasted pictures which do not show the name of the text, the author, the page number. The one source you mentioned, not referenced, does not agree at all as I have shown previously. You simple copied and pasted pictures from an apologist sites, nothing more. When you can actually supply sources which are not contradictions to your views then talk about logic. When you can actually link proper citations not merely pictures with no information regarding the source then we can talk about evidence and sources. Your claims still have zero merit as you have nothing to support your claims beside fallacious arguments and hand waving. If you know anything about logic you would know what a contradiction is and out of context fallacies are. You would see the contradiction between the same authors work. You wouldn't use both as premises of your claims.

Try again son. Maybe enroll in a course to teach you how to make proper references or even how to make proper links to the work not pictures. Maybe a course on language to teach you how nouns modify verbs and how one context can not be injected into another.
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
Rather it is you that refuses to see the disconnect between a dictionary and two translations by the same author of the dictionary that does not support your claims. It is a blatant contradiction which shows your claim is false. After all I am not the one ignoring that same author does not translation his own English versions of the Quran that match your claims. I am the one point it out....

You have provided zero sources. You pasted pictures which do not show the name of the text, the author, the page number. The one source you mentioned, not referenced, does not agree at all as I have shown previously. You simple copied and pasted pictures from an apologist sites, nothing more. When you can actually supply sources which are not contradictions to your views then talk about logic. When you can actually link proper citations not merely pictures with no information regarding the source then we can talk about evidence and sources. Your claims still have zero merit as you have nothing to support your claims beside fallacious arguments and hand waving. If you know anything about logic you would know what a contradiction is and out of context fallacies are. You would see the contradiction between the same authors work. You wouldn't use both as premises of your claims.

Try again son. Maybe enroll in a course to teach you how to make proper references or even how to make proper links to the work not pictures. Maybe a course on language to teach you how nouns modify verbs and how one context can not be injected into another.

If you cant see the author, I cant help it. I have clearly cited it.

Peace.
 

FunctionalAtheist

Hammer of Reason
It is due to wrong understanding of Quran, much propagated by the opposing websites.
If one studies Quran oneself:
  • intently
  • unbiased
  • with an open mind
  • and with correct approach
One won't find any mistakes in Quran.
Thread open for discussion to everybody.
Regards
LOL, it is due to wrong understanding that you could possibly believe there are no errors in koran.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Rather it is you that refuses to see the disconnect between a dictionary and two translations by the same author of the dictionary that does not support your claims. It is a blatant contradiction which shows your claim is false. After all I am not the one ignoring that same author does not translation his own English versions of the Quran that match your claims. I am the one point it out....

You have provided zero sources. You pasted pictures which do not show the name of the text, the author, the page number. The one source you mentioned, not referenced, does not agree at all as I have shown previously. You simple copied and pasted pictures from an apologist sites, nothing more. When you can actually supply sources which are not contradictions to your views then talk about logic. When you can actually link proper citations not merely pictures with no information regarding the source then we can talk about evidence and sources. Your claims still have zero merit as you have nothing to support your claims beside fallacious arguments and hand waving. If you know anything about logic you would know what a contradiction is and out of context fallacies are. You would see the contradiction between the same authors work. You wouldn't use both as premises of your claims.

Try again son. Maybe enroll in a course to teach you how to make proper references or even how to make proper links to the work not pictures. Maybe a course on language to teach you how nouns modify verbs and how one context can not be injected into another.
Let me tell you something mate.

1. Again and again I said that I did not quote Ghulam Farids dictionary for any other reason than to give you a dictionary easy to read. But even his dictionary I quoted to you later because you kept talking about it so much.
2. You claimed that Edward lane says that when it comes to a person Laraba will mean physical beating, you never supported that claim. Because you cannot. Do you even know that we dont really take even Edward Lanes Lexicon for anything more than a study after the letter Qaf? Lexicons we study throughout. And the violent rendering of the said word is when its a violent environment like a war. And the usage of the word is not cited in the lexicon, its Ilribuhunna which personality is not mentioned in any lexicon. Now how could one explain this to such an arrogant person like you? Try and support your claim that Edward Lanes Lexicon cites only the violent rendering of the word when it comes to a human being or person. Show me.
3. You keep quoting the translation which I say is wrong with evidence from language and Quranic context. And I am not the only scholar who does this kind of work. I can quote many but we generally don't do that unless its a public debate published work. Generally out of respect but there is no rule.
4. You keep using words like tripe, etc.
5. You just claimed that the pictures I posted are from some apologist site and that I did not give the authors name. Check again, I have given the authors names. If you wanted to know the source you can just ask like a gentleman rather than saying things like this. Those are screen shots of Ghulams dictionary and Edward Lanes Lexicon. Look up Laraba. I even quoted the English transliteration for ease.
6. Very mature of you to call me son. And yes, I will enroll in a course. Lol.

And stand by your word, if you can prove that I have taken the pictures from a site, any site, apologist or not, I will post a Video online with a public apology and share the link here. But now that you have said it, prove it.

Peace.
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
If you cant see the author, I cant help it. I have clearly cited it.

Peace.

Your reading comprehension is flawed again. I said your images in no way confirm your claims regarding it source. You merely copy/paste images from an apologist website. You do not understand how to make proper citation at all. Heck at least I link my sources, if I can not I state the pages. You do nothing of the sort. Besides Lane's lexicon shows the root words meaning as beat not what you have linked which is a different word in another context. I already cited it days ago. The same fallacy you used before is repeated again. Heck I linked complete books yet you can only provide image with no pages numbers. So tell me what are the page numbers? Go....

Another source https://archive.org/stream/Dict_Wehr.pdf/Wehr#page/n555/mode/2up

Do note that it does also mean separate yet despite this no English translation has this in the verse. Again your argument is to claim the experts are wrong, you are right. Nothing more than that.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Your reading comprehension is flawed again. I said your images in no way confirm your claims regarding it source. You merely copy/paste images from an apologist website. You do not understand how to make proper citation at all. Heck at least I link my sources, if I can not I state the pages. You do nothing of the sort. Besides Lane's lexicon shows the root words meaning as beat not what you have linked which is a different word in another context. I already cited it days ago. The same fallacy you used before is repeated again. Heck I linked complete books yet you can only provide image with no pages numbers. So tell me what are the page numbers? Go....

Another source https://archive.org/stream/Dict_Wehr.pdf/Wehr#page/n555/mode/2up

Do note that it does also mean separate yet despite this no English translation has this in the verse. Again your argument is to claim the experts are wrong, you are right. Nothing more than that.

Again you said I copied and pasted from an apologist website.

Prove it pls.

And stand by your word, if you can prove that I have taken the pictures from a site, any site, apologist or not, I will post a Video online with a public apology and share the link here. But now that you have said it, prove it.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
1. Again and again I said that I did not quote Ghulam Farids dictionary for any other reason than to give you a dictionary easy to read. But even his dictionary I quoted to you.

Yet when I look it up it shows beat as the primary definition. When I go to the same author's English translation of the Quran he used beat in both versions. You didn't read what you cited nor did you even know the author made other books. This creates a contradiction in which the same author not only denies your claims but rejects your claims.


2. You claimed that Edward lane says that when it comes to a person Laraba will mean physical beating, you never supported that claim.

I linked my source pages ago. You didn't both looking at either cited page.

3. You keep quoting the translation which I say is wrong with evidence from language and Quranic context. And I am not the only scholar who does this kind of work. I can quote many but we generally don't do that unless its a public debate published work. Generally out of respect but there is no rule.

Empty claim supported by zero evidence other than your word. Sorry I will take the word and work of experts that unanimously agree with the view I put forwards.

4. You keep using words like tripe, etc.

When you post fallacious arguments tripe is a fitting word for it. I could call your arguments worthless if that helps.

5. You just claimed that the pictures I posted are from some apologist site and that I did not give the authors name. Check again, I have given the authors names. If you wanted to know the source you can just ask like a gentleman rather than saying things like this. Those are screen shots of Ghulams dictionary and Edward Lanes Lexicon. Look up Laraba. I even quoted the English transliteration for ease.

No you posted pictures without citing the pages at all. Hence you didn't take these yourself otherwise you could easily name the pages hours ago. I stand by my claim of you just copy/pasting. Besides your separate argument is all over the internet following the same methods. Anyone can simply Google "Beat them Quran" to see page after page of apologist websites using the same argument you have done so here. The same claims that experts are wrong but anonymous people on the net are right.


6. Very mature of you to call me son. And yes, I will enroll in a course. Lol.

I could call you ignorant of logic hence your use of fallacious arguments if you wish.

And stand by your word, if you can prove that I have taken the pictures from a site, any site, apologist or not, I will post a Video online with a public apology and share the link here. But now that you have said it, prove it.

Again since you have had hours to name the pages go ahead and prove me wrong. So far all you have done for is hand wave excuses. Again cite the page numbers.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Name the page in the image. Go.

Bro. What do you mean go? Go where? Lol.

And why cant you look it up brother? I cant really understand why you keep insisting that page numbers are given to prove the veracity. If you tell me that you dont know how to find it then thats being honest and its only my prerogative to be responsive.

Nevertheless I quoted from Ghulam Farids Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 503 and Edward Lanes Arabig-English Lexicon page number 1778, book 1.

Now I would like to request two things.

1. Show me where Edward Lane says that when it comes to a person the usage of Ilribuhunna is to mean a physical beating.
2. What is the apologist site that i copied the images from?

Peace.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Here is your source. Do note that it has a reference to 4:35 right after the beat/strike definition linked to chastise in English. Do note that chastise in English using the old term is beating which the author clearly shows in beating not a verbal discussion.. The separate definition is not linked to the verse at all. Now if as you claim why is 4:35 not linked to separate? Simple answer is that your claim is false as every source and expert I have cited, including your own, have shown.

https://ia601708.us.archive.org/4/items/DictionaryOfTheHolyQuran/Dictionary of the Holy Quran.pdf
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/chastise
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Here is your source. Do note that it has a reference to 4:35 right after the beat/strike definition linked to chastise in English. Do note that chastise in English using the old term is beating which the author clearly shows in beating not a verbal discussion.. The separate definition is not linked to the verse at all. Now if as you claim why is 4:35 not linked to separate? Simple answer is that your claim is false as every source and expert I have cited, including your own, have shown.

https://ia601708.us.archive.org/4/items/DictionaryOfTheHolyQuran/Dictionary of the Holy Quran.pdf
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/chastise

When you say including my own, if you mean Malik Ghulam Farids dictionary, thats not my source. I think this must be the 5th time I say this.

Again.

1. Show me where Edward Lane says that when it comes to a person the usage of Ilribuhunna is to mean a physical beating.
2. What is the apologist site that i copied the images from?
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Bro. What do you mean go? Go where? Lol.

Go, as in do it.

And why cant you look it up brother?

It is your source, not mine. Your sloppy citations are your problem not mine nor am I responsible to look up your citations for you.

I cant really understand why you keep insisting that page numbers are given to prove the veracity. If you tell me that you dont know how to find it then thats being honest and its only my prerogative to be responsive.

So people do not need to go through a book to find the tiny image you have posted. This will help you

https://www.englishclub.com/writing/plagiarism-citation.htm

Nevertheless I quoted from Ghulam Farids Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 503 and Edward Lanes Arabig-English Lexicon page number 1778, book 1.

I already quoted Lane's Lexicon which aligns with my views not your own. The same Lexicon used for the Quran Corpus that disagrees with your views. Farids also disagrees with you as per my previous post.



Now I would like to request two things.

1. Show me where Edward Lane says that when it comes to a person the usage of Ilribuhunna is to mean a physical beating.
2. What is the apologist site that i copied the images from?

Did you not read your own citation. Its all over pages 1777-78... In fact it is the most common definition for the word. I believe this proves you never read your source you just pasted it from a website.

Read pages 1777-78 Book 1 in Lane's Lexicon. Daraba still means strike not pushing away. The Corpus shows this as well since it is based on Lane's Lexicon although not all the translations are. However each one agrees with me not you

No specific website. Merely that your argument is nothing new, it is all over the internet. I have heard it before. I have seen the images devoid of citations, images cropped to remove the direct reference to the verse in question (as your image is cropped). It is a common tactic of apologists on RF. Also the fact that you have cited my own source back then ask question regarding a source you have cited as well. If you need to ask questions regarding your own source it shows you have never read it at all.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
When you say including my own, if you mean Malik Ghulam Farids dictionary, thats not my source. I think this must be the 5th time I say this.

You cited it, hence it is your source. Do you know what a source is? You can deny it all you want but this does not change the fact of the matter. You cited it, you claimed it supported your view. Again you may need help with understanding what a citation is. Here is another guide to help you understand.

http://www.plagiarism.org/citing-sources/cite-sources/
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
You cited it, hence it is your source. Do you know what a source is? You can deny it all you want but this does not change the fact of the matter. You cited it, you claimed it supported your view. Again you may need help with understanding what a citation is. Here is another guide to help you understand.

http://www.plagiarism.org/citing-sources/cite-sources/

Okay. Fine.

1. Show me where Edward Lane says that when it comes to a person the usage of Ilribuhunna is to mean a physical beating.
2. What is the apologist site that i copied the images from?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Did you not read your own citation. Its all over pages 1777-78... In fact it is the most common definition for the word. I believe this proves you never read your source you just pasted it from a website.

What word? Most common for what word??

No specific website. Merely that your argument is nothing new, it is all over the internet. I have heard it before. I have seen the images devoid of citations, images cropped to remove the direct reference to the verse in question (as your image is cropped). It is a common tactic of apologists on RF. Also the fact that you have cited my own source back then ask question regarding a source you have cited as well. If you need to ask questions regarding your own source it shows you have never read it at all.

Of course the argument is common. But show me where I took the image from.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Okay. Fine.

1. Show me where Edward Lane says that when it comes to a person the usage of Ilribuhunna is to mean a physical beating.
2. What is the apologist site that i copied the images from?

Already answered this.

What word? Most common for what word??

For the very same word you have cited in Lane's Lexicon. However since you didn't actually read it you are obvious to this fact. You didn't read the source, the lexicon itself, you read an image of it, nothing more.

Of course the argument is common. But show me where I took the image from.

Considering I had already linked Lane's Lexicon there is no reason to link pictures nor take the time to take pictures. Considering you repeated my own citation days after the fact shows that you didn't even look at my sources. This does more than suggest you just googled a site for the answers you wanted from an apologist website. Sites that crop images like your Farid image is as the reference to the verse in question was removed as it would damage the claim.
 
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