There are no mistakes in Quran

[Jabar]

@A Greased Scotsman These are again misconceptions
1.
Yes. In Surah 25:53

Of course, it's not talking about salt water and fresh water in general - after all you can take a glass of fresh water and dump some salt water into it and it will mix. The Surah refers to fresh river water entering a salty sea. If you've ever visited an estuary you can see this. Depending on the size and force of the river, there is always an area at the mouth of the river that extends out into the sea that remains fresh. Beyond that point, of course, the fresh water mixes with the salty and becomes salty.
2.
1- The word used by the Qur’an:

I have given the translation of Abdullah Yusuf Ali above. The word he translated as “found” is وجد i.e. ‘wajada.’ This word is used to describe the perception. See the proof from the Edward William Lane’s Lexicon.



And further he writes;

Edward William Lane’s Arabic-English Lexicon p. 2924

So the word ‘wajada’ refers to perception through any one of the five senses.

2- Qur’an uses the wording from Zulqarnain’s perspective:

What we find is that Qur’an has used the word from the perspective of Zulqarnain and merely describes his perception and how it appeared in his sight. And the description is very much valid for on a shore that is how sunset actually seems. May be the following image helps a bit.


So clearly, when Allah Almighty Said that the sun is ضياء (diyaa'a), a source of light, and the moon a نورا , then clearly the moon:

1- Is reflecting to light, because it is إستمدّ شعاعة (was supplied by light), as this is the meaning of إستنار , which is derived from the root word نور noor.

2- Is reflecting to light, because it is ظهر و حسن (was revealed well from light) , as this is the meaning of انار , as in انار النبت.

3- Is reflecting to light, because it receives light from the sun and it is lighted and revealed by it.

So which light is the moon reflecting? It is reflecting to the sun's ضياء (diyaa'a). Again, هو الذين جعل الشمس ضياء والقمر نورا , and the moon is the noor نورا to that diyaa' ضياء of the sun!

Allah Almighty further Said:

Noble Verse(s) 71:15-71:16
Yusuf Ali:
[071:015] "'See ye not how God has created the seven heavens (of the earth, i.e., the 7 layers of our atmosphere) one above another,

[071:016] "'And made the moon a (reflecting) light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?
Transliteration:

[071:015] Alam taraw kayfa khalaqa Allahu sabAAa samawatin tibaqan
[071:016] WajaAAala alqamara feehinna nooran wajaAAala alshshamsa sirajan

Arabic (from right to left):

‏71:15 الم تروا كيف خلق الله سبع سموات طباقا
‏71:16 وجعل القمر فيهن نورا وجعل الشمس سراجا


4. There is no proof and evidence. You are stating false claims

5. You are speaking on Evolution.
When Adam and Eve were still in Paradise someone on Earth was already shedding blood and causing mischief:

Quran 2:30 And your Lord said to the angels "I will make a successor on Earth", They said "How can You make [a successor] someone who corrupts and sheds blood while we praise and sanctify You?" He said "I know what you don't know."
Adam and Eve were not the first to live on Earth, those Homo sapiens were already living on Earth however they didn't worship God. So God chose Adam and Eve from Paradise to become their successors on Earth.

1400 years ago the Quran said that God is able to recreate humans from their own semen in forms that they are unable to envisage:

(Quran 56.58-62) Do you see your own semen? Do you create it or Do We [Allah] create it? We decreed the death among you and nobody beat Us to alter your form and raise you in forms that you do not perceive. And you have figured out your first form then why do you not take heed?
Change of form is evolution. Change of form from our own semen is evolution indeed. The Arabic words "Ghair Masbookeen" means nobody beat us to it. Since God is saying that nobody beat Him to evolving man from his own semen this means that evolution is God made (not non-existing as some Muslims claim). There is nothing in the Quran that tells us whether Adam & Eve looked like us or looked like Homo sapiens.

The Quran also says that if God wishes He can make our descendants nonhuman just like our ancestors:

(Quran 6.133) Your Lord, the Rich and Merciful, if He wishes, can discard you and succeed you with "WHATEVER" He wishes; Just like He created you from the seed of another clan.

The Quran specifically uses the word "Whatever" or "What" ("ma" in Arabic ما). This Arabic word "ma" cannot refer to humans; this word is strictly reserved for nonhumans (the Arabic word that does refer to humans is "men من", meaning "who" or "whoever" but it was not used here).
This verse says that if God wishes He can make our descendants nonhuman just like our ancestors. So our ancestors were nonhuman (Homo sapiens).

In conclusion, God created Adam & Eve in Paradise from clay however He brought them down to Earth to succeed those who didn't worship Him (Homo sapiens).

6. He (is) the One Who created you from a single soul and made from it its mate that he might live with her. And when he covers her, she carries a burden light and continues with it. But when she grows heavy, they both invoke Allah, their Lord, "If You give us a righteous (child), surely we will be among the thankful."Word by Word context" style="color: rgb(61, 123, 181); text-decoration: none;">

 

[firedragon]

What we find is that Qur’an has used the word from the perspective of Zulqarnain and merely describes his perception and how it appeared in his sight. And the description is very much valid for on a shore that is how sunset actually seems. May be the following image helps a bit.


So clearly, when Allah Almighty Said that the sun is ضياء (diyaa'a), a source of light, and the moon a نورا , then clearly the moon:

Wakada is appeared. Thats correct. wa wajada means and found to look like or appear.

Also you must realise that the setting place that everyone talks about is Maghrib. We refer it to the evening. The sunsent. The west.

Later it also talks about the east.

Analyse further.

 

[Jabar]

Exactly. @firedragon You are muslim, am i corect brother?

 

[firedragon]

Exactly. @firedragon You are muslim, am i corect brother?

.Oh. Just realised that i havent furnished details on my profile.

Yes. I am a Muslim. But you might get offended with me too.

Lol.

Cheers.

 

[paarsurrey]

It is personal experience of us Muslims to hear one sect call another sect by the word Kafir. Animosity of this nature exists in this world and if everyone is correct, there are seven billion Kafirs in this world.

It is being used as a rebuke. I don't say anybody like that.
Regards

 

[Jabar]

How so? @firedragon

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

@A Greased Scotsman These are again misconceptions
1.
Yes. In Surah 25:53

Of course, it's not talking about salt water and fresh water in general - after all you can take a glass of fresh water and dump some salt water into it and it will mix. The Surah refers to fresh river water entering a salty sea. If you've ever visited an estuary you can see this. Depending on the size and force of the river, there is always an area at the mouth of the river that extends out into the sea that remains fresh. Beyond that point, of course, the fresh water mixes with the salty and becomes salty.

I understood that it was talking about water flowing from the mouth of a river to the sea but thanks for the clarification nonetheless. In your effort to disprove my post you admit that the water does actually mix: "Beyond that point, of course, the fresh water mixes with the salty and becomes salty." What am I to make of this? You believe the verse is literally true but you also believe that salt & fresh water mix at the same time. This is a dictionary definition example of cognitive dissonance.

2.
1- The word used by the Qur’an:

I have given the translation of Abdullah Yusuf Ali above. The word he translated as “found” is وجد i.e. ‘wajada.’ This word is used to describe the perception. See the proof from the Edward William Lane’s Lexicon.



And further he writes;

Edward William Lane’s Arabic-English Lexicon p. 2924

So the word ‘wajada’ refers to perception through any one of the five senses.

2- Qur’an uses the wording from Zulqarnain’s perspective:

What we find is that Qur’an has used the word from the perspective of Zulqarnain and merely describes his perception and how it appeared in his sight. And the description is very much valid for on a shore that is how sunset actually seems. May be the following image helps a bit.

There's a problem with all that: it specifically says that Zulqarnain came to the spot where the sun set, he found it was setting in a spring containing water that was black, muddy and/or hot. He also found people living at the spot where the sun set. So basically his perspective is flawed, and not in keeping with Allah's reality - yet this is not pointed out or even corrected. It's not speaking metaphorically; it's speaking literally. Seems like a pretty big flaw for a divinely inspired scripture.

So clearly, when Allah Almighty Said that the sun is ضياء (diyaa'a), a source of light, and the moon a نورا , then clearly the moon:

1- Is reflecting to light, because it is إستمدّ شعاعة (was supplied by light), as this is the meaning of إستنار , which is derived from the root word نور noor.

2- Is reflecting to light, because it is ظهر و حسن (was revealed well from light) , as this is the meaning of انار , as in انار النبت.

3- Is reflecting to light, because it receives light from the sun and it is lighted and revealed by it.

So which light is the moon reflecting? It is reflecting to the sun's ضياء (diyaa'a). Again, هو الذين جعل الشمس ضياء والقمر نورا , and the moon is the noor نورا to that diyaa' ضياء of the sun!

Allah Almighty further Said:

Noble Verse(s) 71:15-71:16
Yusuf Ali:
[071:015] "'See ye not how God has created the seven heavens (of the earth, i.e., the 7 layers of our atmosphere) one above another,

[071:016] "'And made the moon a (reflecting) light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?
Transliteration:

[071:015] Alam taraw kayfa khalaqa Allahu sabAAa samawatin tibaqan
[071:016] WajaAAala alqamara feehinna nooran wajaAAala alshshamsa sirajan

Arabic (from right to left):

‏71:15 الم تروا كيف خلق الله سبع سموات طباقا
‏71:16 وجعل القمر فيهن نورا وجعل الشمس سراجا

I'll assume you've accidentally mixed your translations up because the Yusuf Ali translation doesn't actually say "And made the moon a (reflecting) light in their midst". The Sahih International one does so I'll concede the point. It's worth pointing out that though, that a significant amount of meaning has been lost in the Yusuf Ali translation because it omits the term 'reflecting' or any synonym.

4. There is no proof and evidence. You are stating false claims

There's plenty of proof and evidence. You can walk into any museum on natural history (assuming the country you live in has them) and see samples of rocks, minerals & fossils dated to different eras of Earth's history; and you can learn the basics of the methods used to date them.

5. You are speaking on Evolution.
When Adam and Eve were still in Paradise someone on Earth was already shedding blood and causing mischief:

Quran 2:30 And your Lord said to the angels "I will make a successor on Earth", They said "How can You make [a successor] someone who corrupts and sheds blood while we praise and sanctify You?" He said "I know what you don't know."
Adam and Eve were not the first to live on Earth, those Homo sapiens were already living on Earth however they didn't worship God. So God chose Adam and Eve from Paradise to become their successors on Earth.

You're being liberal with your translation here. The link you provided says "And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." , not "successor". There's something of a difference.

"Successive authority" makes it sound as though he's talking about a new religion more than a new group of humans. The Quran doesn't actually say there were humans living on Earth before Adam & Eve either. Not in that verse at least. That's just your interpretation of it - one possibly informed by the science you ironically dismiss out of hand while attempting to refute point #4 (specifically the science of palaeontology). Indeed the verse is more than likely saying they're a successor to the forms of animals Allah has created (which are mentioned) in that humans inherit the planet by his will.

(Quran 56.58-62) Do you see your own semen? Do you create it or Do We [Allah] create it?

That's another scientific mistake: claiming that semen comes from Allah, rather than the human body. We can point to the part of the body which produces semen, how it is made and the exact mechanics of how it is dispersed. No reason to include Allah since you can't empirically prove him (which is crucial for all science).

Change of form is evolution.

Right....

Change of form from our own semen is evolution indeed.

Wrong. That is not evolution. Evolution involves the changing of genetics on a group and/or individual level over generations.

(Quran 6.133) Your Lord, the Rich and Merciful, if He wishes, can discard you and succeed you with "WHATEVER" He wishes; Just like He created you from the seed of another clan.

The Quran specifically uses the word "Whatever" or "What" ("ma" in Arabic ما). This Arabic word "ma" cannot refer to humans; this word is strictly reserved for nonhumans (the Arabic word that does refer to humans is "men من", meaning "who" or "whoever" but it was not used here).
This verse says that if God wishes He can make our descendants nonhuman just like our ancestors. So our ancestors were nonhuman (Homo sapiens).

In conclusion, God created Adam & Eve in Paradise from clay however He brought them down to Earth to succeed those who didn't worship Him (Homo sapiens).

That seems like a flawed interpretation. How do you know Allah wasn't saying Adam & Eve (and their descendants) would succeed the animals he had already placed on Earth? Why does it have to be humans already present prior to him creating Adam & Eve (which seems more than a little redundant if there were humans already there)?

6. He (is) the One Who created you from a single soul and made from it its mate that he might live with her. And when he covers her, she carries a burden light and continues with it. But when she grows heavy, they both invoke Allah, their Lord, "If You give us a righteous (child), surely we will be among the thankful."Word by Word context" style="color: rgb(61, 123, 181); text-decoration: none;">

That doesn't refute my point.

 

[Jabar]

@A Greased Scotsman You claim them as errors but they are not. They are misconceptions made by humans. Allah already knows that there will be descensions or for lack of a better term misconceptions. As it is stated In another verse Allah commands: "… They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'an, 24:22)
In chrono order;

Surah 3 Verse 184
According to the translation I am currently using, it states the ''Book of enlightenment'' - the one you provide was 'the scripture giving light'. In which case, muneer is not using in it's literal sense, rather a metaphor.

Surah 24 Verse 35.
Noor in this case takes the reflected usage. God being described as noor (light) relates to the Prophet's saying ''God has Seventy Thousand Veils of Light and darkness'' - the number is to signify the great quantity as opposed to being a value.

Surah 25 Verse 61.
The translation I have reads: giving light - not reflecting. Simple translation error.

Surah 33 Verses 45 and 46
This verse is refering to the Prophet - moon is not being used in it's literal sense rather as a metaphor.

Sura 71 verse 15 and 16
Not quite sure what you're saying on this one. I'll give it a shot, though.
Noor takes the definition of light - not neccesarrily borrowed or reflected. It depends on the usage of noor - the words before and after will tend to affect whether the usage is ''borrowed'' or ''reflected''.

As a general rule; the Quran uses a lot of metaphor and similie. So be careful in your interpretation of the ayats - not all are literal. In cases such as these, please consult a translation of the Quran with scholar's interpretation. The one I used was A. Yusuf Ali's translation.
6. Sorry, i put the wrong information on the semen topic and how Adam and Eve were first humans. I tend to make mistakes. However, there is no actual proof that evolution exists. Yes there are fossils here and there but do they match up with the evidence we found about dinosaurs which the Quran talks about. No. Watch this video:

When you say it is a big flaw in the Quran when it talked about the wrong idea of the Zulqarnain it is not very intelligent of you. It is putting a perspective of a person, you misinterpret it and since it is divine you say why would it suggest it? Quran talks about his creation and puts them into perspective. This does not make his words a flaw at all.

 

[Jabar]

@A Greased Scotsman You say: 4) [50:38] We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us.

Young Earth Creationism (the name of the 'Earth created in 6 days by a god' position) flies in the face of all testable geological evidence.
Notice how you give no proof on how it flies in the face of all testable geological evidence.

YOU SAY:There's plenty of proof and evidence. You can walk into any museum on natural history (assuming the country you live in has them) and see samples of rocks, minerals & fossils dated to different eras of Earth's history; and you can learn the basics of the methods used to date them.
What exactly? Give proof, like i do. Before i make my apposing view.

 

[Jabar]

@A Greased Scotsman You said that it is not pointed out and corrected. But in other verses:
-sura 50, verse 6. The subject is man in general.
"Do they not look at the sky above them, how We have built it and adorned it, and there are no rifts in it."

--sura 31, verse 10:
"(God) created the heavens without any pillars that you can see..."

--sura 13, verse 2:
"God is the One Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you can see, then He firmly established Himself on the throne and He subjected the sun and moon . . ."

 

[gnostic]

It is due to wrong understanding of Quran, much propagated by the opposing websites.
If one studies Quran oneself:

• intently
• unbiased
• with an open mind
• and with correct approach

One won't find any mistakes in Quran.
Thread open for discussion to everybody.
Regards

The Qur'an not only contain mistakes...it contained a lot of myths and fables...

...there are plenty of contradictions too.

 

[Jabar]

@gnostic You are just like the others who believe Qur´an has mistakes. It is one thing to state your opinion and another to give facts about that statement. How about you give proof about those mistakes, myths, fables, and contradictions you speak of. I challenge you to come up with one without a wrong understanding of Quran.

 

[Jabar]

There are no errors. Now if we talk about the errors in any other religion including yours you will find many with no misunderstanding and misconceptions @gnostic

 

[gnostic]

@gnostic You are just like the others who believe Qur´an has mistakes. It is one thing to state your opinion and another to give facts about that statement. How about you give proof about those mistakes, myths, fables, and contradictions you speak of. I challenge you to come up with one without a wrong understanding of Quran.

Everything written about Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Moses, David and Solomon are all mythological, whether the sources be in the -

1. Hebrew Tanakh,
2. Christian gospels and epistles
3. and Islamic Qur'an.

That Muhammad retell some of these stories about these biblical characters, who don't exist historically, in the Qur'an, don't make them anymore factual, credible or truthful.

And do you understand what fable is?

Fable is a story involving animals, in which they have human characteristics, or have the abilities to verbally communicate with humans, or human have the gift of talking and understanding animals.

But the most important purpose of fable is not so much it being historical accuracy, but to provide meaning in the story, a moral theme.

The Genesis talking serpent or Numbers with the talking donkey fall under the fable category.

Here let me give you an example - Solomon.

In the Qur'an, Solomon being capable to understand and talk to animals, birds (27:16) and ants () would also fall under this Fable category.

Birds:

And Solomon inherited David. He said, "O people, we have been taught the language of birds, and we have been given from all things. Indeed, this is evident bounty."

And he took attendance of the birds and said, "Why do I not see the hoopoe - or is he among the absent?
I will surely punish him with a severe punishment or slaughter him unless he brings me clear authorization."

But the hoopoe stayed not long and said, "I have encompassed [in knowledge] that which you have not encompassed, and I have come to you from Sheba with certain news.
Indeed, I found [there] a woman ruling them, and she has been given of all things, and she has a great throne.
I found her and her people prostrating to the sun instead of Allah , and Satan has made their deeds pleasing to them and averted them from [His] way, so they are not guided,
[And] so they do not prostrate to Allah , who brings forth what is hidden within the heavens and the earth and knows what you conceal and what you declare -
Allah - there is no deity except Him, Lord of the Great Throne."

Ants:

Until, when they came upon the valley of the ants, an ant said, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

So [Solomon] smiled, amused at her speech, and said, "My Lord, enable me to be grateful for Your favor which You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents and to do righteousness of which You approve. And admit me by Your mercy into [the ranks of] Your righteous servants."

And birds and ants are not ones that he can talk to. It also say that Solomon is capable of commanding birds and jinns, like soldiers in an army:

And gathered for Solomon were his soldiers of the jinn and men and birds, and they were [marching] in rows.

And it would seem that not only jinn fight for Solomon in his army, but he can get the jinns would build for him, and that Solomon can controls the winds:

And to Solomon [We subjected] the wind - its morning [journey was that of] a month - and its afternoon [journey was that of] a month, and We made flow for him a spring of [liquid] copper. And among the jinn were those who worked for him by the permission of his Lord. And whoever deviated among them from Our command - We will make him taste of the punishment of the Blaze.

Do you believe that Solomon could do all this?

The whole things about Solomon is something that I would expect from fairytale, fable, myth or folklore, because anyone of these narratives defy reality, the supernatural, and talking animals, jinns and controlling the weather would fall under the supernatural.

Do you see why I am so skeptical with the Qur'an?

The errors here, is thinking that the Qur'an is a historical accurate.

 

[Jabar]

@gnostic How is it mythological? They did exist. What proof do you have these people did not exist.Because there is proof.
It is very difficult to gather material and physically existing evidence of personalities and events of the past that would suffice the intellectual needs of the modern world. Like if Noah’s ark really did exist, or if Moses did receive the tablets of the Ten Commandments, and so on. This becomes even more difficult when it is studied under the contemporary methodology approved by today’s academia.
Of course, there is archaeological discoveries that continue to unravel important aspects of the past, like markings on coins, manuscripts, and so on.

Besides the holy texts, there are primary sources written in ancient scripts that speak of these events, and with the Prophet of Islam (s.a.w.), there are enough substantial evidence from even non-Muslims that he did exist and he presented a new holy Book with valuable teachings.

They even confirm with accuracy the dates that fall in line with the Islamic historical belief.

These great personalities in history who were also Prophets, or might not be Prophets, like Socrates, etc, have all left a legacy of being influential in their time and much was written about them. The major impact they had on the society and the teachings they had brought is sure enough evidence of their existence. The Quran itself has prophecy, scientific claims, and many things that came true. They include:
Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density.1 For example, Mediterranean sea water is warm, saline, and less dense, compared to Atlantic ocean water. When Mediterranean sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1000 meters with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics. The Mediterranean water stabilizes at this depth2 (see figure 13).




Figure 13: The Mediterranean sea water as it enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics, because of the barrier that distinguishes between them. Temperatures are in degrees Celsius (C°). (Marine Geology, Kuenen, p. 43, with a slight enhancement.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.

The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God has said:

He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress.

(Quran, 55:19-20)

But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier. God has said in the Quran:

He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition.

(Quran, 25:53)

One may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?

Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers.”3 This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water4 (see figure 14).



Figure 14: Longitudinal section showing salinity (parts per thousand ‰) in an estuary. We can see here the partition (zone of separation) between the fresh and the salt water. (Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, p. 301, with a slight enhancement.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).
So, if you take this into factor then everything that has been said in the Quran specifically about the prophets is true because it is divine, divine beings are omniscient. Meaning that they would know everything. Including the things you are skeptical about obviously.

 

[Jabar]

@gnostic
About Solomon, Yes, Allah has given him these powers.
The events in this post are based on two Quranic verses of Surah Al-Baqara and Ibn Kathir’s writings. Harut and Marut (mentioned in the Quran in Surah Al-Baqarah) were two angels who are known to be behind bringing black magic to this world. Quran clarifies the misunderstanding related to their role. They are mentioned in connection with the events that took place during the time of Prophet Solomon / Sulaiman (alaihis salam) the wise prophet and king, who came after Prophet Moses / Musa (alaihis salam). Allah’s revelation in the Quran about Sulaiman (alaihis salam) also clears the misconceptions that the Jews had about him that he was “just a sorcerer or idolator who was carried by the wind.”

Prophet Sulaiman’s powers
Allah had bestowed Prophet Sulaiman (alaihis salam) with certain powers over mankind, Jinn and all other living creatures. Satan wanted to deprive him of this power. One day, as it was his practice, before going to answer the call of nature, Sulaiman (alaihis salam) gave his ring to a woman called Al-Jaradah. Satan took advantage of this opportunity, came in the form of Sulaiman, and took the ring from her and put the ring on. As Allah had decreed to bless the holder of the ring to have many powers, all mankind, the jinn and devils submitted to Satan. Later, when Sulaiman came seeking his ring from the woman, she accused him of being an imposter. Prophet Sulaiman endured this with patience as he knew that this was a test from Allah the Almighty.
How black magic and fortunetelling became widespread?
With Satan having new powers, the devils were now free to do whatever they wished. It was at this time that they wrote books of black magic and buried them underneath the throne of Prophet Sulaiman (alaihis salam). Black magic and fortune telling came to the earth through these devils who (after having the new powers) would eavesdrop on the descending angels about matters decreed in the Heavens. The devils would then come down to inspire the soothsayers with it, and the latter would add to it many lies of their own. People would then believe them and regard them as trustworthy. The people started writing down these matters and the word spread among the Children of Israel that the Jinn knew the unseen.

Later, when Allah restored to Prophet Sulaiman (alaihis salam) his kingdom, and all those who had strayed away came to follow the straight path once again, Allah the Almighty informed Sulaiman (alaihis salam) about the magic that had become commonplace among his people. This then drove Sulaiman to quickly seize and gather all these writings and put them in a chest and bury them under his throne. All the devils who tried to even approach the chest were burned alive. Prophet Sulaiman took an even harder stance declaring that he would behead anyone who claimed that the devils knew the unseen.

Asif was Sulaiman’s scribe. He knew the Greatest Name of Allah and used to write what he was ordered to by Sulaiman and then bury it underneath the throne. After Sulaiman’s death, a devil came in the form of a human being to the people and said: “I will lead you to an everlasting treasure that will never run out.” He was referring to the writings of Prophet Sulaiman that were buried under the chest. The Satan led the people to dig under Sulaiman’s throne. To provide credibility to his word he also offered to be killed if he was not correct in his claims. After the people dug out all the writings, the devil told them that it was these writings that had given Prophet Sulaiman power over mankind, the Jinn and the birds. The devils altered these books by adding magical and blasphemous writings. The devils wrote about different types of sorcery meant to fulfill different desires.

For example, the devils wrote about how people could get some wishes fulfilled by standing facing the sun and saying some words, and how they could get other wishes fulfilled by standing with their back to the sun and repeating some other words. They wrote this in a book and sealed it with a ring bearing the inscription found on Sulaiman’s ring and titled it with: “This is what has been written by Asif Ibn Barkhiya by the order of King Sulaiman Ibn Dawud: from the treasures of knowledge.” Then, they buried it under Sulaiman’s throne.

It was rumored and circulated that Sulaiman had been a sorcerer. Satan established himself as an orator and said: “O people! Sulaiman was not a prophet; he was only a sorcerer! Go and seek his sorcery in his dwellings and luggage.” And he led them to the buried “treasure”. The people said: “By Allah! Sulaiman was a sorcerer who subjected us through his magic.” But the believers from among them said: “Nay, he was a faithful Prophet.”

Quran’s verses and explanation on the reality of black magic
During Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.S.) time, the Jews kept these writings and disputed the prophet (s) regarding them. They would ask Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.S.) about matters from the Torah. They said: “Muhammad confounds the truth with falsehood: he puts Sulaiman with the prophets while he was just a sorcerer who was carried by the wind.” When they asked him about sorcery, Allah the Almighty revealed to the prophet (s) the following verses:



They followed what the Shayatin (devils) gave out (falsely of the magic) in the lifetime of Sulaiman (Solomon). Sulaiman did not disbelieve, but the Shayatin (devils) disbelieved, teaching men magic and such things that came down at Babylon to the two angels, Harut and Marut, but neither of these two (angels) taught anyone (such things) till they had said, “We are only for trial, so disbelieve not (by learning this magic from us).” And from these (angels) people learn that by which they cause separation between man and his wife, but they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah’s Leave. And they learn that which harms them and profits them not. And indeed they knew that the buyers of it (magic) would have no share in the Hereafter. And how bad indeed was that for which they sold their ownselves, if they but knew.

· And if they had believed, and guarded themselves from evil and kept their duty to Allah, far better would have been the reward from their Lord, if they but knew!

Quran (Surah Al-Baqara, Verses 102-103)

Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.S) informed the Jews of this narration and they left defeated and humiliated. Regarding the angels Harut and Marut mentioned in the verses, Ibn ‘Abbas (May Allah be pleased with him) elaborated that: “The angels Harut and Marut used to warn anyone who came to them to learn magic and would say to him: “We areonly for trial, so disbelieve not (by learning this magic from us).” They knew what is good, what is bad, what is belief and what is disbelief and thus they knew that magic was associated with disbelief. Ibn ‘Abbas continued: “However, if they could not dissuade the person, they would tell him to go to a particular place to learn magic.

Allah the Almighty says:

“…And from these (angels) people learn that by which they cause separation between man and his wife,…”(Al-Baqarah, 2:102).

i.e., the people learned from Harut and Marut the magic by which they would cause separation between man and his wife though the man and wife might have affinity and affection for each other. Separation between them is caused by the cunning of the devils as transmitted in Imam Muslim’s Sahih from the Hadith narrated by Jabir Ibn ‘Abdullah as said by the Prophet (S.A.W.S.): “Iblis places his throne upon water; he then sends detachments (for creating dissension); the nearer to him in rank are those who are most notorious in creating dissension. One of them comes and says: “I did so and so.” And he says: “You have done nothing.” Then one amongst them comes and says: “I did not spare so and so until I sowed the seed of discord between a husband and a wife.” Satan goes near him and says: “You have done well.” Al-A’mash said: “He then embraces him.”

The dissension between a husband and wife can be created through magic by the devil making each of them imagine something bad — a view, or manner, etc. – about the other. Allah the Almighty says:

“But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah’s Leave”(Al-Baqarah, 2:102).

The lesson from the story is that magic is for real and Allah has provided Satan certain powers to harm mankind,especially those who believe in Allah and His message of truth. To prevent us from Satan’s plans and mischief, Allah has also provided us with many verses andadhkar that we can find in the Quran and Hadith. We should, therefore, be regular in reciting those Azkar to avoid getting in the traps of Satan all satanic activities.

 

[firedragon]

It is being used as a rebuke. I don't say anybody like that.
Regards

Yep. But I know many who call ahmadias kafir.

 

[firedragon]

The Qur'an not only contain mistakes...it contained a lot of myths and fables...

...there are plenty of contradictions too.

What are they?

 

[firedragon]

Everything written about Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Moses, David and Solomon are all mythological, whether the sources be in the -

1. Hebrew Tanakh,
2. Christian gospels and epistles
3. and Islamic Qur'an.

That Muhammad retell some of these stories about these biblical characters, who don't exist historically, in the Qur'an, don't make them anymore factual, credible or truthful.

And do you understand what fable is?

Fable is a story involving animals, in which they have human characteristics, or have the abilities to verbally communicate with humans, or human have the gift of talking and understanding animals.

But the most important purpose of fable is not so much it being historical accuracy, but to provide meaning in the story, a moral theme.

The Genesis talking serpent or Numbers with the talking donkey fall under the fable category.

Here let me give you an example - Solomon.

In the Qur'an, Solomon being capable to understand and talk to animals, birds (27:16) and ants () would also fall under this Fable category.

Birds:

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Ants:

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And birds and ants are not ones that he can talk to. It also say that Solomon is capable of commanding birds and jinns, like soldiers in an army:

​

And it would seem that not only jinn fight for Solomon in his army, but he can get the jinns would build for him, and that Solomon can controls the winds:

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Do you believe that Solomon could do all this?

The whole things about Solomon is something that I would expect from fairytale, fable, myth or folklore, because anyone of these narratives defy reality, the supernatural, and talking animals, jinns and controlling the weather would fall under the supernatural.

Do you see why I am so skeptical with the Qur'an?

The errors here, is thinking that the Qur'an is a historical accurate.

When one believes that God created the universe, understanding animals will be such an easy task dont you think?

 

[firedragon]

1. There is no observable evidence for evolution.
2. Same way, there is no real proof against evolution as well.
3. Evolution does not propound on the creation of life. It begins really with the appearance of life on earth.

Cheers.