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There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
No-boundary theory is the idea that there is no boundary outside of the universe. There is no external. Everything that exists does so within space-time. This taken with the BB means there is no external cause. If there is a God, God it a product of the universe not the producer/cause of it.

Well, as another poster has just said, scientist are not an authority on a subject with very little evidence. He is clearly wrong in his belief as I know that God exists.

Post 2812 - Just because stephen hawking or Brian cox says something of which there is extremely limited scientific evidence does not make it so.
If you are going to site an authority at least read what theories they support. This way you are not citing someone that concludes God is not necessary or possible

So, before I site an authority I should read their book to see what they believe? OK, I'll do that from now on.

I just took what Stephen Hawkins said as true when he wrote this

In this lecture, I would like to discuss whether time itself has a beginning, and whether it will have an end. All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology. Yet it is now taken for granted.

http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

At least research the stuff you post.
 
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Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I really feel like I should tell you this. If there is ever a chance that I might ever become an atheist, which I doubt, I would want to be an atheist just like yourself. Straight talking, pulling no punches, yet polite and honest. There is nothing wrong in having different beliefs and having the courage to stand by those beliefs, telling it like you really believe it is, as long as you are amicable and polite with it. I admire people like yourself, you are a worthy opponent. I sorry if I have embarrassed you, but I really felt like I should tell you that

Actually I appreciate it. Thank you.
 

BTROD

Cosmic Clown
I went through many years of disliking the word G_d, mainly due to the intolerance of those who claimed to believe in G_d.

I prefer the word Source or Beloved, and I cannot assign a gender to this most Beautiful and Enchanting Mystery because that is placing our limitations upon what we can never know whilst in the flesh.

There is an Intelligence behind All of what we experience.

As a species we have added a frightening overdose of insanity and brutality to our Life Experience, somewhere we took a wrong turn and became totally disconnected from our Source; and yet it is a vital experience, this path of death and destruction.

Souls are waking up to the fact that this insanity cannot go on much longer, if we allow it to do so then we will become extinct. We are all in this crisis together, we are the problem and we are the solution.
 

Shuttlecraft

.Navigator
This verse seems to cover pollution, the ozone hole, hair loss through nuke radiation, and fierce UV sunlight=
"And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty."(Isaiah 3:24)

The writing's on the wall-
"The time has come for judging the dead.. and for destroying those who destroy the earth" (Revelation 11:18)

stink.jpg


factory.jpg
-
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
This verse seems to cover pollution, the ozone hole, hair loss through nuke radiation, and fierce UV sunlight=
"And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty."(Isaiah 3:24)

The writing's on the wall-
"The time has come for judging the dead.. and for destroying those who destroy the earth" (Revelation 11:18)

stink.jpg


factory.jpg
-

It is interesting that you call yourself "Freelance Christian". I used to call myself "Independant Christian" because I am not a member of any particular faith.
 

Shuttlecraft

.Navigator
It is interesting that you call yourself "Freelance Christian". I used to call myself "Independant Christian" because I am not a member of any particular faith.

Good for you mate, we don't need any organised religion to do our thinking for us..:)
Jesus said:-"You have ONE teacher, ME" (Matt 23:10)
And he's easy enough to understand-
"The common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12 :37)

I could call myself 'Christian', but the danger there is that people might think I belong to an org rel and I don't want them to think that.
At one time I thought about calling myself a "Free Christian", but I googled around and found out a group had already beaten me to it years ago.
So I thought of calling nyself a "Loose Cannon Christian" but dropped the idea because it's a bit too strong.
Anyway, a rose by any other name..;)
 
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Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Good for you mate, we don't need any organised religion to do our thinking for us..:)
Jesus said:-"You have ONE teacher, ME" (Matt 23:10)
And he's easy enough to understand-
"The common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12 :37)

I could call myself 'Christian', but the danger there is that people might think I belong to an org rel and I don't want them to think that.
At one time I thought about calling myself a "Free Christian", but I googled around and found out a group had already beaten me to it years ago.
So I thought of calling nyself a "Loose Cannon Christian" but dropped the idea because it's a bit too strong.
Anyway, a rose by any other name..;)

Well, I have been around these forums for many years and you are the first one I have found with the same beliefs as I have. I don't condemn the various denominations I just do not feel that I need man to interpret scripture for me when if scripture is to effect me then surely I should do the interpreting. Not that I think it needs it. To those who have faith in Christ His words are extremely jejune and facile. It is good to know that I am not a lone wolf, and both of us Brits as well. Tell me, not that it matters, but are you a trinitarian or do you believe that they are three separate and distinct individuals?
 
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Shuttlecraft

.Navigator
..are you a trinitarian or do you believe that they are three separate and distinct individuals?

The Trinity is just some mumbo-jumbo cooked up by "scholars" and I never give it a thought. They claim that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all rolled up together, but at the same time are separate!
Scripture indicates that God and Jesus are completely separate, but the same holy spirit is in both of them like the words on a song sheet.
In the same way, Don and Phil Everly are separate, and "Wake up little Susie" is on the song sheet they're both singing from..:)

[youtube]4X7b2E_Jq-k[/youtube]
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
The Trinity is just some mumbo-jumbo cooked up by "scholars" and I never give it a thought. They claim that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all rolled up together, but at the same time are separate!
Scripture indicates that God and Jesus are completely separate, but the same holy spirit is in both of them like the words on a song sheet.
In the same way, Don and Phil Everly are separate, and "Wake up little Susie" is on the song sheet they're both singing from..:)

Excellent, I was hoping you might say that. The trinity is not mentioned anywhere in scripture, just a load of old men, around 300 years after Christ, decided that there interpretation was correct and we all followed like sheep. Anyway, I am taking the topic off course, although I finally think it has run its course now. It is good, and comforting, to know that there is a like minded poster on the forum.
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
Jimmy Buffet has a much clearer understanding of the Trinity:

"Vampires, Mummies And The Holy Ghost"

Looked in my laptop what did I see
A flashing message said today therapy
Rather walk through fire
Than converse with my shrink
But I'm getting better
That's what some people think

Talk about denial
And dysfunctional things
Head's like a bell somedays
It dongs and it dings
My brain playing tricks on me
It likes to shift gears
Spend lots of money
But I'm tackling my fears

Vampires, Mummies and the Holy Ghost
These are the things that terrify me the most
No aliens, psychopaths or MTV hosts
Scares me like vampires, mummies and the Holy Ghost

Had a dream last night
Took a time traveling ride
Back to my childhood
Where those monsters reside
They snack on innocence
And dine on self-esteem
But I like to be in touch with what makes me scream

Vampires, Mummies and the Holy Ghost
These are the things that terrify me the most
No aliens, psychopaths or MTV hosts
Scares me like vampires, mummies and the Holy Ghost

I was never ever frightened
By the murderer on our block
He nurtured orchids and raised hamsters
The neighborhood is still in shock
La, la, la, la, la...

So many dragons lurking out in the fog
So many crazy people mumblin' monologues
It's not the tales of Stephen King that I've read
I need protection from the things in my head

Vampires, Mummies and the Holy Ghost
These are the things that terrify me the most
No aliens, psychopaths or MTV hosts
Scares me like vampires, mummies and the Holy Ghost
 

Shad

Veteran Member
It is quoting out of context. If I quote a Christian which support evolution but fail to provide a context in which this view is accepts I can put a spin on it. A Christians accepted view of evolution comes with a tag, that of theist evolution. However without providing the context I could easily say since this person supports evolution but the Bible has a creation of mankind, which conflicts with evolution. Therefore this Christian is against the Bible and not really a Christian. There are a number of people I could quote which support the Bible. However without providing context of their greater view I can misrepresent the views with their quote for my own purpose. Thus the quote can be used to support an argument which the person themselves does not support.

Context should be applied in a quote. Hawking supports the timeline of the universe but has ruled out God completely. This is different from someone which supports the timeline but does not hold the no-boundary theory. My quotes provide context. Such as my reference to QM include information that the universe is uncaused. There is no room for superimposing my view into another persons views. This is what you have done.
 

serp777

Well-Known Member
Jimmy Buffet has a much clearer understanding of the Trinity:

"Vampires, Mummies And The Holy Ghost"

Looked in my laptop what did I see
A flashing message said today therapy
Rather walk through fire
Than converse with my shrink
But I'm getting better
That's what some people think

Talk about denial
And dysfunctional things
Head's like a bell somedays
It dongs and it dings
My brain playing tricks on me
It likes to shift gears
Spend lots of money
But I'm tackling my fears

Vampires, Mummies and the Holy Ghost
These are the things that terrify me the most
No aliens, psychopaths or MTV hosts
Scares me like vampires, mummies and the Holy Ghost

Had a dream last night
Took a time traveling ride
Back to my childhood
Where those monsters reside
They snack on innocence
And dine on self-esteem
But I like to be in touch with what makes me scream

Vampires, Mummies and the Holy Ghost
These are the things that terrify me the most
No aliens, psychopaths or MTV hosts
Scares me like vampires, mummies and the Holy Ghost

I was never ever frightened
By the murderer on our block
He nurtured orchids and raised hamsters
The neighborhood is still in shock
La, la, la, la, la...

So many dragons lurking out in the fog
So many crazy people mumblin' monologues
It's not the tales of Stephen King that I've read
I need protection from the things in my head

Vampires, Mummies and the Holy Ghost
These are the things that terrify me the most
No aliens, psychopaths or MTV hosts
Scares me like vampires, mummies and the Holy Ghost

Too bad that he didn't have a better understanding pf how to make good music
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
Jimmy? Not make good music? That's blasphemy!

"We Are The People Our Parents Warned Us About"

I was supposed to have been a Jesuit priest or a Naval Academy grad
That was the way that my parents perceived me
Those were the plans that they had
Though I couldn't fit the part too dumb or too smart
Ain't it funny how we all turned out
I guess we are the people our parents warned us about

You know I could have worked the rigs when the money was big
Or hopped a freighter south to Trinidad
And when they tried to draft me I earned a college degree
Buyin' time till things were not so bad
But when I got a guitar found a job in a bar, playin' acid rock til I was numb
Tell me where are the flashbacks they all warned us would come.

We are the people they couldn't figure out
We are the people our parents warned us about

Hey hey, Gardner McKay, take us on the leaky Tiki with you
Clear skies bound for Shanghai, sailin' on the ocean blue

Now I got quarters in my loafers tryin' to fight inflation
When it only used to take a cent
Sometimes I wish I was back in my crashpad days before I knew what cash flow meant

Seems everybody's joggin' or heavy into health s***
Don't tell me that I ought to get rolffed

'Cause I love cajun martinis and playin' afternoon golf

We are the people there isn't any doubt
We are the people they still can't figure out
We are the people who love to sing "Twist and Shout"
(Shake it up, Baby now)
We are the people our parents warned us about.
 
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Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
It is quoting out of context. If I quote a Christian which support evolution but fail to provide a context in which this view is accepts I can put a spin on it. A Christians accepted view of evolution comes with a tag, that of theist evolution. However without providing the context I could easily say since this person supports evolution but the Bible has a creation of mankind, which conflicts with evolution. Therefore this Christian is against the Bible and not really a Christian. There are a number of people I could quote which support the Bible. However without providing context of their greater view I can misrepresent the views with their quote for my own purpose. Thus the quote can be used to support an argument which the person themselves does not support.


You are talking about Christians who live their life by a moral code. We have no need to do this as we are honest God fearing people.

Secondly, you can fully believe in evolution and the story of the creation, there is no contradiction. You just cannot see it through our eyes.

Thirdly, you need to lighten up mate. You live in a complex complicated world with unnecessary hurdles to jump.

Context should be applied in a quote. Hawking supports the timeline of the universe but has ruled out God completely. This is different from someone which supports the timeline but does not hold the no-boundary theory. My quotes provide context. Such as my reference to QM include information that the universe is uncaused. There is no room for superimposing my view into another persons views. This is what you have done.

Stephen Hawkins stated clearly that the universe had a big bang. I don't need to know what kind of Deodorant he uses to read what he says he believes. You seem to have a need for exactitude or you need to prove me wrong. I am not sure which. You dissect everything I say in that hope that you will prove me wrong. You haven't done it yet but I do not care if you do. It is a forum for debate for all to enjoy. Only when people get this serious do they spoil the fun for every one. I notice that you take yourself serious as well by your self praise. That is insecurity if ever I saw it. At the end of the day Stephen Hawkins said what he said, that is, that the big bang happened. I believe him despite his disbelief in God.
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
You are talking about Christians who live their life by a moral code. We have no need to do this as we are honest God fearing people.

Secondly, you can fully believe in evolution and the story of the creation, there is no contradiction. You just cannot see it through our eyes.

Yet you quote a known atheist which works on a theory in which God is dismissed. It undermines your point in context to the topic of this thread.

Thirdly, you need to lighten up mate. You live in a complex complicated world with unnecessary hurdles to jump.
Sure I can understand that. However this does not mean I should accept simplified answers based on a game of chinese whispers as the "answer".


Stephen Hawkins stated clearly that the universe had a big bang. I don't need to know what kind of Deodorant he uses to read what he says he believes. You seem to have a need for exactitude or you need to prove me wrong. I am not sure which. You dissect everything I say in that hope that you will prove me wrong. You haven't done it yet but I do not care if you do. It is a forum for debate for all to enjoy. Only when people get this serious do they spoil the fun for every one. I notice that you take yourself serious as well by your self praise. That is insecurity if ever I saw it. At the end of the day Stephen Hawkins said what he said, that is, that the big bang happened. I believe him despite his disbelief in God.
Yes he did. He also said God is not required at all nor possible in his work.

I am just proving your arguments wrong, that is all. It is quite easy when one uses a fallacy every second or third sentence. If you see someone pointing out errors in your arguments as spoiling the fun you can always ask to move the topic out a public sub-forum to a DIR. You are not looking for a debate, you are looking for yes men. You will find plenty of them in DIR sub-forums. You are just bugged that someone has the balls to rain on your parade.

I am confident in my abilities, skills and education. There is nothing wrong with this. I have worked hard to get where I am. Nothing wrong with taking pride in one's work or life. Are you not confident in your own skills, abilities and education or for example your faith in God? Could I not claim that you take your belief in God to seriously? Is not your belief and you adherence to it taking yourself too seriously? Especially in the case to adhering to fallacious arguments as if above logic and reproof. All while admiting you know nothing about logic or philosophy.
 

WhatGod

Member
If I could take any reasonable man ... that it is more likely for their to be a God, then not.

Really?

That's the best you can do for your deity?

More likely than not?

I'm sorry but as a reasonable person I have to say that any god who can't be mustered better than that really isn't worth the bother.

Maybe you should two should get together over coffee and work on something a bit more persuasive?

Or better yet, I'm free tomorrow. Have her pop by and talk to me directly the way any actual being would.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Yet you quote a known atheist which works on a theory in which God is dismissed. It undermines your point in context to the topic of this thread.

I do not think it does

Sure I can understand that. However this does not mean I should accept simplified answers based on a game of chinese whispers as the "answer".

No one was doing that. That is down to your perceptions and comprehension.

Yes he did. He also said God is not required at all nor possible in his work.

And he is very much entitled to his opinion. As am I.

I am just proving your arguments wrong, that is all.

You may believe you are, but you are wrong. You have yet to accomplish that feat.

It is quite easy when one uses a fallacy every second or third sentence.

And if you cannot read for comprehension, words that form sentences, that have fallacies in them, by deciphering what is being said, then, I fear, your education was but a wasted venture

If you see someone pointing out errors in your arguments as spoiling the fun you can always ask to move the topic out a public sub-forum to a DIR.

No one else is complaining so do you not think that the better option would be for you to cease posting to me and torturing yourself by having to read my poorly constructed post that is jam packed full of fallacious arguments. My advice to you would be to post elsewhere, where the posters are more on an equal footing to your superior intellectual knowledge and education.

You are not looking for a debate, you are looking for yes men. You will find plenty of them in DIR sub-forums.

Au contraire mon ami. It is you who thus seekers the "Yes" word, Tis I who refuses to give it

You are just bugged that someone has the balls to rain on your parade.

I rarely get bugged as I posses a healthy supply of insect repellent, and when ever I hold a parade I always bring an umbrella to keep off that pesky condescending rain.

I am confident in my abilities, skills and education.

Yes, that is all to apparent

There is nothing wrong with this.

There is when you become sanctimoniously condescending.

I have worked hard to get where I am.

Then perhaps you should try just a tad harder next time

Nothing wrong with taking pride in one's work or life.

There is when it negatively effects others you come in contact with. Pride can either be enjoyed or endured.

Are you not confident in your own skills, abilities and education or for example your faith in God?

Not to the point of condescension.

Could I not claim that you take your belief in God to seriously?

You could, but you would be wrong. Everything to be kept in perspective. My belief is personal to me. I only speak about it on forums such as these. If you met me in real life you would not know that I am a Christian because I do not impose my views on others. I do not even do that her. I respond to challenges to my belief.

Is not your belief and you adherence to it taking yourself too seriously?

What like putting myself on a pedestal rather then allowing others to put me there. It is far easier to fall of a pedestal if there is no one below supporting you.

Especially in the case to adhering to fallacious arguments as if above logic and reproof.

I am not aware of many of these fallacious arguments whose only real purpose seems to be in elevating those who announce them and in stifling debate.

All while admiting you know nothing about logic or philosophy.

And there is one of your, now famous, misrepresentations. I never said that I know nothing about logic and philosophy, I said that I have no formal education in them. A big difference.
 
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Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Really?

That's the best you can do for your deity?

More likely than not?

I'm sorry but as a reasonable person I have to say that any god who can't be mustered better than that really isn't worth the bother.

Maybe you should two should get together over coffee and work on something a bit more persuasive?

Or better yet, I'm free tomorrow. Have her pop by and talk to me directly the way any actual being would.

:clap. :D. : :woohoo: :danana: :drunk: :biglaugh: :clap. :D. :
 

WhatGod

Member
I do ... stifling debate.

Why have you not just invoked your god. That would really settle things.

I never said that I know nothing about logic and philosophy, I said that I have no formal education in them. A big difference.

Your point would be better made if you didn't equivocate so.

Are you actually self taught in logic? Because that would be impressive. It's so boring and pointless seeming in the beginning that few pursue it unforced by scholastic incentives. What logics did you study and did you pickup rhetoric as well?

Do you have a specific philosophy or philosopher whose views you find worth while?
 

WhatGod

Member
:clap. :D. : :woohoo: :danana: :drunk: :biglaugh: :clap. :D. :

That doesn't seem to be god?

You do believe that guy whose picture you post already popped in for a meal with his Jewish followers and he hung out with a guy on the road? Right? That is the whole point of that story - physically risen from the dead. That is what you are hoping for? Physical resurrection?

I am asking no more or less than Thomas did. Have JC pop on by and say "hey!" I can pop my hand in his side and then we can lunch on some Liebfraumilch and kippers; or, Chinese take out. I'm easy.

Or is it all just talk?
 
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