There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

[metis]

Then why didn't they combine the lists and call them theists. You are grasping at straws.

Some people believe that everything has a spirit that all combine into the spirit of mother earth - Paganism. If we take what you say as true a second list is not required as all beliefs would be theism. It is not, so we have two lists.

When surveys are taken, the wording of the questions becomes terribly important, and not everyone gets it right. I am not grasping at straws as what I said wasn't in any way refuted. If you think it was, so be it.

 

[metis]

Some people believe that everything has a spirit that all combine into the spirit of mother earth - Paganism. If we take what you say as true a second list is not required as all beliefs would be theism. It is not, so we have two lists.

"Paganism" is a form of theism (actually many different forms of theism):

Paganism is a broad group of indigenous and historical polytheistic religious traditions—primarily those of cultures known to the classical world. In a wider sense, paganism has also been understood to include any non-Abrahamic, folk, or ethnic religion. Modern ethnologists often avoid referring to non-classical and non-European, traditional and historical faiths as "pagan" in favour of less ambiguous labels such as polytheistic, shamanistic, pantheistic, and animistic...

The adoption of paganus by Latin Christians as an all-embracing, pejorative term for polytheists represents an unforeseen and singularly long-lasting victory, within a religious group, of a word of Latin slang originally devoid of religious meaning. The evolution occurred only in the Latin west, and in connection with the Latin church...

—Peter Brown, Late Antiquity, 1999 -- Paganism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[metis]

What you say here is positively true, however, you mistake the paradigm. It is not theism that is challenging science, it is theism responding to having their noses ground into scientific advancements and the usual announcement that science proves theism wrong, which it never has. Evolution was once their pearl. See, God must be a fallacy as a result of our discovery in evolution, only it backfired on them with many theist accepting evolution as Gods method for creation. Everything that science discovers has that edge of it disproving God in it. Watson and Crick ran into the pub, near their laboratory, shouting that they had found the meaning of life, which was immediately taken as proof that God is a fallacy, instead of realising that DNA was written by God. Science is at odds with theism, not the other way around. We want science to discover knew things that will benefit our society in anyway possible. We are Christians, so, we love everyone and want them to be happy. Science is a two edged sword. The acquisition of knew knowledge with the express hope that it will disprove the idea of God at the same time. It never has, and it never will. You cannot disprove the truth, though Dawkins tries very hard to. So, although your words are true it is science that initiates the confrontation by attempting to prove God wrong, we know that we cannot prove God to anyone other then ourselves, which is why faith is all about individuals not congregations. Religion is a personal facet of our journey through our own mortality. We are not, nor should not, try and prove that God exists. It would be seeking after a sign. No, we are defending our belief in the face of science desperately trying to prove that God is a fairy tale. The question that should be asked is Why? Why is science determined to disprove God and all the positivism that comes with him. Whose side are they fighting for. If not for God then who?

I repost the above as this is what you had posted in #3173, and your own survey proves that you are clearly wrong. I underlined the parts especially that are simply false due to your stereotyping of "science" and scientists. Yes, there are plenty of scientists that are atheists or agnostics, but there's also plenty that are theists of one type or another. To repeat what I previously had posted, it is disingenuous to make the claims you did above by creating the we/they dichotomy that you did.

Therefore, it is not I who has been "grasping at straws" as you so falsely claimed. This is far from my being my first experience with this approach as I grew up and was very active in a fundamentalist Protestant church that taught about the "evils of evolution" through my early 20's whereas this we/they approach was pounded into us repeatedly. I left that church in 1970, if my memory is correct, and I never regretted doing so even though I left some people I really liked. When I saw your post above, it reminded me of that disingenuous duality that I left over 40 years ago.

Anyhow, unless you come up with something quite earth-shaking, I guess I'll move on.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Ohhhhh, do you guys mean like how you still defend and worship a God who condones rape and slavery?
Pot, kettle.

You fire-and-brimstone preachermen are so fixated on the Old Testament that you forget Jesus TRASHED it's harshness, and people quickly cottoned on-
"The covenant of Jesus is superior to the old one" (Heb 8:6)
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance" (Acts 17:30)

looks like you've got some catching up to do..

 

[outhouse]

I repost the above as this is what you had posted in #3173, and your own survey proves that you are clearly wrong. .

Ignore is your only option on this one.



There is no debate at all with this one.

 

[Sapiens]

Ignore is your only option on this one.



There is no debate at all with this one.

Sure there is,this is a debating forum, says so on the header. You can play ostrich if that's your desire.

 

[outhouse]

Sure there is,this is a debating forum, says so on the header. You can play ostrich if that's your desire.

See how far you get against fanaticism and fundamentalism of an old YEC brainwashed since birth to avoid historical and scientific reality.

When your done beating your head against a brick wall, give me a heads up.

 

[TheGunShoj]

You fire-and-brimstone preachermen are so fixated on the Old Testament that you forget Jesus TRASHED it's harshness, and people quickly cottoned on-
"The covenant of Jesus is superior to the old one" (Heb 8:6)
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance" (Acts 17:30)

looks like you've got some catching up to do..

Exactly.

 

[Sapiens]

See how far you get against fanaticism and fundamentalism of an old YEC brainwashed since birth to avoid historical and scientific reality.

When your done beating your head against a brick wall, give me a heads up.

It is hard here, in this format, to ever see any change, much easier in a public setting where it is not hard to reduce an old YEC (especially preachers who are not used to being crossed) to abject drooling silence. Even more fun on the steps of their own church with their flock looking on. Note: treatment only afforded to those who try to push there crap into the schools.

 

[outhouse]

It is hard here, in this format, to ever see any change, much easier in a public setting where it is not hard to reduce an old YEC (especially preachers who are not used to being crossed) to abject drooling silence. Even more fun on the steps of their own church with their flock looking on.

I made A MISTAKE LOL

Confusing this guy and sincerely in the other thread lol :foot:

But from what I have seen the outcome will be identical.


You cannot use reason on people that did not use it to gain their beleifs

 

[Sapiens]

You cannot use reason on people that did not use it to gain their beleifs

True, but when even their brainwashed followers see them defeated, silent and slack-jawed ... then you know that reason has prevailed. Watched my kid take a local cleric apart up in Kona when he was just 14 ... it was beautiful, that flock lost a bunch of teens that day. Most of what he used was straight out of The Ancestor's Tale, easy as pie.

 

[Serenity7855]

Ohhhhh, do you guys mean like how you still defend and worship a God who condones rape and slavery?

Pot, kettle.

Nah. My God does not condoned rape and slavery. That is just an old chestnut used by atheists. He is a moral God who has given us a moral code of practice to follow. No, it is those who are without any moral code and, therefore, no real accountability, that are more likely to condone rape and slavery, like atheists, for example.

 

[TheGunShoj]

Nah. My God does not condom rape and slavery. That is just an old chestnut used by atheists. He is a moral God who has given us a moral code of practice to follow. No, it is those who are without any moral code and, therefore, no real accountability, that are more likely to condone rape and slavery, like atheists, for example.

"does not condom rape and slavery" you have some very unfortunate typos on occasion.

Exactly. Spin it so you don't have to reconcile the immorality of your so called "moral God"

Would you like me to find you some verses straight from the mouth of your God, straight out of your holy book that prove you wrong? It's pretty easy to do.

It's a "chestnut used by atheists" because it's a blatantly obvious atrocity committed by your god right there in the pages of your book. Why wouldn't we use it?

 

[adi2d]

Nah. My God does not condom rape.

Thanks for posting. I needed a laugh today

 

[TheGunShoj]

Oh and by the way. The idea that atheists have no moral code and are more likely to condone rape and slavery is laughably absurd. There have been multiple studies in multiple countries that tend to show a direct correlation. The more secular the society, the lower crime rates in just about all areas. Not to mention less teen pregnancies, abortions, ect.

Can you just answer me this one thing for me. If God is the author of all morals, please show me exactly where he told us that slavery is wrong. I assume that you believe it's wrong to own another human being as property. Where did your God convey this message?

 

[Shuttlecraft]

..Watched my kid take a local cleric apart up in Kona when he was just 14..

Good for him, hope it's on youtube..

Paul said "Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity" (Bible: 1 Tim 4:12)

 

[Ouroboros]

Nah. My God does not condom rape.

If it wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious. Never seen such a disastrous misspelling before.

If God had "condom-ed" the impregnation of Mary, there wouldn't have been any Jesus... Right?

 

[Serenity7855]

"does not condom rape and slavery" you have some very unfortunate typos on occasion.

Not really, I use a word predictor that sometimes puts in strange alternatives. I always check it though and put it right, it is just that there are those who try and stupefy you before you get chance to put right a perfectly logical error. You do it quite a lot.

Exactly. Spin it so you don't have to reconcile the immorality of your so called "moral God"

What you call spin I call truth. It is a standard indictment from atheists that God is a genocidal murderer who condones rape. It always gets the same responses that blow the assertions clean out of the water, but that does not stop atheists from persisting with it

Would you like me to find you some verses straight from the mouth of your God, straight out of your holy book that prove you wrong? It's pretty easy to do.

Yes.

It's a "chestnut used by atheists" because it's a blatantly obvious atrocity committed by your god right there in the pages of your book. Why wouldn't we use it?

Why wouldn't you use it? Because it is not true and because telling lies is immoral.

 

[Serenity7855]

If it wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious. Never seen such a disastrous misspelling before.

Then you need to get out more.

If God had "condom-ed" the impregnation of Mary, there wouldn't have been any Jesus... Right?[/QUOTE]

What?

 

[Serenity7855]

Oh and by the way. The idea that atheists have no moral code and are more likely to condone rape and slavery is laughably absurd. There have been multiple studies in multiple countries that tend to show a direct correlation. The more secular the society, the lower crime rates in just about all areas. Not to mention less teen pregnancies, abortions, ect.

I would like to see that evidence and whether you mean the government of those countries are secular or there people. Lack of morality inevitably breeds lack of moral accountability. No deterrent means no reason for morality. Rape would be perfectly acceptable as there is no code to say it is wrong and there is not deterrent to prevent it from happening. Atheists have no moral accountability. No reason why they should be moral.

Can you just answer me this one thing for me. If God is the author of all morals, please show me exactly where he told us that slavery is wrong. I assume that you believe it's wrong to own another human being as property. Where did your God convey this message?

No problem, I can answer that for you.

John 13:34-35

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another

You really need to take the "agnostic" from your " agnostic atheist" . You are pure atheist.