There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

[Iti oj]

And how does it 'select' when it has no intelligence? And how is that 'natural' anyway. What is natural??? What does it mean???

resource competition , arms raise between prey and hunters, sexual selection, genetic drift, genetic muation...etc...

 

[Robert.Evans]

I suppose you can think in terms of "who/what did it" for natural selection much as you can for rain, volcanic eruptions, gravity or magnetic attraction and repulsion.

Personally, I would advise against courting with language that hints at conscious intent where there is no hint of any, though.

There are wiser men than I that would disagree with your last statement.

I still do not see you answer what 'natural' is. If I speak of God, you say, Who is he, where is he, Where does he come from? Now you posit natural as if it is some kind of magic, but give no explanation for what it is or where it comes from, sir

 

[Iti oj]

How can 'nothing' do it? No intent? So you are saying it is luck then?

Let us try and keep with the theme.

No, its environmental pressure.

 

[Robert.Evans]

The difference I can see is in the perception of a purpose, intent or goal. Natural things just happen as they do. Things that God does are supposedly meant to.

haha... this is what I find funny (no offence). You are saying that natural things just happen as they do. That somehow explains everything to you. I don't know how. If all things are natural, what then is everything?

I guess there is not necessarily a distinction between the two classifications, but then one has to wonder whether God makes any difference at all, let alone whether it makes sense to hold any conception of God.

It makes more sense to say that there is an evolving consiousness, as this explains all things. Saying it is natural, and leaving it at that, explains what?

 

[Robert.Evans]

resource competition , arms raise between prey and hunters, sexual selection, genetic drift, genetic muation...etc...

And you will say that is 'natural'. So what then is natural. What is it? Why does it do these things? You are giving a physical mechanism to bring about what we see, which only explains life after it arrives. But either way, you say that the things mentioned above, are natural. What does that mean? How are those things 'natural'.

 

[Robert.Evans]

No, its environmental pressure.

Ok. So now the argument begins to focus a little.
So where then does this 'environmental pressure' come from? Please don't say it is natural.. haha. What is it? where does it arise from?

 

[Robert.Evans]

resource competition , arms raise between prey and hunters, sexual selection, genetic drift, genetic muation...etc...

You see sir, you seem to be saying that there is some sort of energy that all things come from and that changes into 'stuff' and that is 'natural'. Can you explain that?

 

[Robert.Evans]

If there is no intelligence involved, it is not natural, it is luck, is it not? Is there anything in between luck and intelligence??

 

[Robert.Evans]

What sir, is the difference between the 'magic' of God and the 'magic' of the god 'natural'?

 

[LuisDantas]

There are wiser men than I that would disagree with your last statement.

I stand unconvinced on that particular point. You shouldn't sell yourself so short.

I still do not see you answer what 'natural' is.

Natural is that what happens without having been meant to or designed to happen.

If I speak of God, you say, Who is he, where is he, Where does he come from? Now you posit natural as if it is some kind of magic, but give no explanation for what it is or where it comes from, sir

In insisting that there is room (or need) for an explanation you are in effect denying that it can be natural.

 

[LuisDantas]

haha... this is what I find funny (no offence). You are saying that natural things just happen as they do. That somehow explains everything to you. I don't know how. If all things are natural, what then is everything?

You seem to be just telling me that you have a hard time accepting that things can happen naturally, and that therefore you personally must believe in God.

If you say so.

It makes more sense to say that there is an evolving consiousness, as this explains all things. Saying it is natural, and leaving it at that, explains what?

I guess there is just no way for us to reach an agreement then.

 

[LuisDantas]

If there is no intelligence involved, it is not natural, it is luck, is it not? Is there anything in between luck and intelligence??

Environmental pressure.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I stand unconvinced on that particular point. You shouldn't sell yourself so short.

Thank you...now you will tell me it was a joke, haha

Natural is that what happens without having been meant to or designed to happen.

But that makes all things natural. So whatever the primordial energy is, that makes the multiverse/universe, it is natural. So what then is natural? How is that different than saying everything is God? It appears to me that the argument is that it must come from luck. It does not appear to be much of an argument

In insisting that there is room (or need) for an explanation you are in effect denying that it can be natural.

I am yet to know what natural means. I will give you an example: on TV two women, a presenter and a scientist, were looking at shells (or something) The one said, Isn't that amazing. How on earth has that come about, (or words to that effect). The scientific reply was, (yes you guessed it) Its natural. That seemed to be a good enough answer for the other woman, and they walking on.
Tell me what she had said?
Why not just say God did it?
What use is an explanation like natural did it, if all things are natural?

 

[Iti oj]

If there is no intelligence involved, it is not natural, it is luck, is it not? Is there anything in between luck and intelligence??

I already answered this question, twice now.

 

[Iti oj]

Thank you...now you will tell me it was a joke, haha

But that makes all things natural. So whatever the primordial energy is, that makes the multiverse/universe, it is natural. So what then is natural? How is that different than saying everything is God? It appears to me that the argument is that it must come from luck. It does not appear to be much of an argument

I am yet to know what natural means. I will give you an example: on TV two women, a presenter and a scientist, were looking at shells (or something) The one said, Isn't that amazing. How on earth has that come about, (or words to that effect). The scientific reply was, (yes you guessed it) Its natural. That seemed to be a good enough answer for the other woman, and they walking on.
Tell me what she had said?
Why not just say God did it?
What use is an explanation like natural did it, if all things are natural?

Its natural does not equal nature did. Its natural PROCESSES!

 

[Robert.Evans]

You seem to be just telling me that you have a hard time accepting that things can happen naturally, and that therefore you personally must believe in God.

If you say so.
I guess there is just no way for us to reach an agreement then.

But I still have no idea what is meant by this mystical magical power of the word natural. It appears it is all luck to me.

 

[Iti oj]

What sir, is the difference between the 'magic' of God and the 'magic' of the god 'natural'?

explanationpower and predictive modeling as well as hard evidence. Also nothing magical, but gradual through environmental pressures.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Environmental pressure.

haha... But how does enviromental pressure come about. Now you will say it is natural. haha... what are we learning here?
What is natural?

Environmental pressure brings about a non-random ending to something which is random. Ok, but this environmental pressure is brought about itself through luck. What else brings it about? Intelligence??

 

[Robert.Evans]

Its natural does not equal nature did. Its natural PROCESSES!

So it appears to be that you sneak in an artificial intellignece there, and call it a 'process'. Presumably this is because you know that luck is no use as an answer.

Where does the 'process' come from? Luck???

 

[Iti oj]

haha... But how does enviromental pressure come about. Now you will say it is natural. haha... what are we learning here?
What is natural?

Environmental pressure brings about a non-random ending to something which is random. Ok, but this environmental pressure is brought about itself through luck. What else brings it about? Intelligence??

Do you know anything at all about climate science? are you aware of the cycle nature of warming and cooling that happens? Do you know how many mass extinctions their are? Do you know what happens when the slate is wiped clean so to speak> Are you aware of how life competes to survive against other life? Competes to breed? ETC?