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There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Perhaps the answer is this Outhouse:

In the beginning there was 'natural'.
And natural said, Do stuff naturally in a natural way.
So everything came about from something natural in natural ways, without a hint of something supernatural. Everything was natural. Natural brought into being natural.

Now that is a better answer isn't it?!?

Now we can say 'Natural did it', rather than 'God did it'. That's much better.. haha :)
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Honest as usual I see. :facepalm:


I would advise anyone to not listen to OP as this is dangerous faith, that can kill you or your loved one.

He has proven himself over and over to lack credibility.

I think you see through your own eyes, as normal. They are somewhat tainted now it seems. Stick with your luck then
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Exactly.


It could be 10,000,000 and fanaticism will remain just that.

A refusal of credible knowledge in favor of mythology and pseudo history


And now your trying to pedal pseudo medicine :slap:

Now who is being dishonest... haha. a blind man says to the one who sees, there is nothing in the room... Ok, fine. Let us all follow the blind man and his luck. Luck will create everything, and the reward?? Oh I forgot, the reward is death.. guaranteed. Can I join... me, me, me sir... haha
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
This was a useless sentence.
Even more useless, not mention false. Unsubstantiated claim 101.

And sarcasm is very unsophisticated and unintellectual. You just embarrassed yourself and exposed your hypocrisy.

Yet another useless mini paragraph that includes an arrogant ad hominem. Instead of actually pointing out the ignorance, you've decided to write about essentially nothing.

That's called undiscovered science, not supernatural. Supernatural things defy science and cannot be explained by science. If something can be explained by science it is simply undiscovered science. The cosmological consciousness is a completely unsubstantiated construct you pulled out of thin air, failing to provide a single tid bit of evidence or reasoning to support it, for example.

LOL. Seriously? First, as has been mentioned many times in this thread: don't tell God what to do, quoting Neils Bhor here. He can do anything he wants whenever he wants because he is God. Second, I completely dismiss and reject your God radio in which you get information about God as much as I reject the suicide bomber who thinks he has a hotline to Allah. And if you believe that you can draw upon the powers of heaven, the you might have delusions of grandeur. That is magical thinking.

Anecdotal evidence from a biased source; it also does not mean it was God, or that it was related to the Christian faith. Perhaps it was an Islamic miracle, or a hindu miracle, or a scientology miracle.

Placebo effect sometimes works; but placebo doesn't work as well as effective medicine. You make it sound magical and powered by God. It's just biological repair mechanisms. I can direct you to cell repair on a wikipedia page if you wish,a nd also placebo.

Besides being poorly constructed sentence, I never claimed that religious people were inherently mentally unstable or that religion should be outlawed. This is simply an attempt to mislead from the central argument by making irrelevant commentary on what people like me may or may not be.

Your words are not helpful :(
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
It's all placebo effect. When it works they take credit for it; when it doesn't work God works in mysterious ways and humans suffer because God cannot interfere, or they can't get their magical powers up that day. Maybe they can make heavenly healing power viagra?

Everything is evolving consciousness. It is how it is because that is what it is. You add nothing to the argument. Discussion is fine, but I do not see one. There is good and evil as there is two sides to the coin. There has to be, it is the opposite, so has to exist. It equally wishes to be free, so it will remain as it is a child of God as we all are.
Perhaps your ideology on this is not starting from a solid foundation in the first place. Lest you are saying that luck is a better answer.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Is there evidence of a Supreme Designer ? Many who are scholastically capable, feel that that no one brought all life and the universe into existence, but is the product of an "accident".

They, along with others, follow the thoughts of noted evolutionists such as Richard Dawkins and Richard C. Lewontin or of theoretical physicists such as Michio Kaku or Lawrence Krauss or astronomer Phil Plait in believing that there is no God. Sound reasoning does not always come with high academic capablities. The power of greed has been the undoing of some CEOs. But concerning the universe and the life that exists within it, consider this.

(1) distance of the earth from the sun. If the earth were 5 percent closer, life would cease to exist because of intense heat. If the earth were just 1 percent farther away, it would become freezingly cold. The earth is located in what is called the circumstellar habitable zone, where life neither fries nor freezes. Our solar system is located some 28,000 light years from the center of the Milky Way, called the galactic habitable zone where radiation is not deadly and the elements we need are readily available. Just an accident ?

(2) Consider the size of the earth. If the earth were just slightly smaller, the strength of gravity would be less, causing surface water and oxygen to drift away from the earth, rendering the earth lifeless. If the earth were slightly larger, gravity would be stronger and the light gas hydrogen (which is highly explosive, requiring only 1/10 of the energy to ignite as gasoline in the presence of oxygen, in which the flames are hard to see and hard to fight) would not escape at its prescribed rate and build up, eventually causing life to cease by asphyxiation.

Gravity as it precisely is now, allows for water evaporation to reach a point in height (and hydrogen to slowly disperse at a prescribed rate into space), forming (cumulus) clouds for rain but go no further (with the atmosphere divided into 5 layers, troposphere (about 7 miles), stratosphere (about 7-31 miles), mesosphere [about 31-50 miles, as low as -135 degrees F.], thermosphere [about 50-310 miles, reaching over 4,000 degrees F.] and exosphere [to deep into space]).

(3) And this leads up to a question. Why is our atmosphere 78 percent nitrogen and 21 percent oxygen ? Because of the precise size of the earth that allows the explosive light gas hydrogen to properly escape, and the inert gas of nitrogen being the major portion of our atmosphere in conjunction with oxygen, what assessment can be obtained ? That this was accidental, that it just happened by chance ?

When a diver is going down fairly deep into the ocean, does he not have to ensure that the gases he breathes underwater are the right combination for his safety ? Since that is so, can we rightly conclude that the exact mixture of gases in our atmosphere was a random act of a mindless theory called evolution ? Does precision or organization ever happen by chance ?

(4) Evolution teaches that man came about through a series of accidental situations, in which amino acids formed "just right" to make a protein. But consider that for a protein to be created, requires RNA (ribonucleic acid) and RNA requires proteins for it be made (it has been estimated that the probability of just one protein of just 100 amino acids forming at random is about 1 chance in a million billion). So how could either one arise by chance, let alone both, and at the same time and in the same place ? And we have not even considered the DNA. nor reached up to the formation of a single cell.

Think of a wall safe with its sequence of numbers. If one number is wrong or out of sequence, the safe will not open. Likewise, if one amino acid is out sequence within a protein, it fails to function. A wall safe was designed by a mind, so should it be accepted that a protein, that is of far greater complexity, came about by accident ?

But consider that a cell has over 2,000 proteins that serve as enzymes. What are the odds of all of them randomly occurring ? They have been calculated as 10 followed by 40,000 zeroes or the same as the chance of throwing an uninterrupted sequence of 50,000 sixes with unbiased dice!" (The Intelligent Universe, F. Hoyle, 1983, pages 11-12, 17, 23)

Agreed. Luck chance coincidence randomness and chaos are not answers. They are mere cop outs to difficult questions, which certain people do not have the ability to see. it is God who gives us eyes.
We merely play out the words we are given.

By the way, Kaku has said in Parallel worlds, (I think) that there is likely to be intelligence behind it all. Plus early half the scietific world believes in God. Plus some of the top scientists like Francis Collins.

Everything is too complex, too complicated to have come about through chance events. But of course, when your mind is shut off, that is all you have :(
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Don't you think you should give credit for this post to the Institute for Creation Research web site and Jerry Bergman, Ph.D. 1985. The Earth: Unique in All the Universe. Acts & Facts. 14 (6), as he requests? He is at least honest enough to say, "My thanks to Dr. David Johnson, Professor of Chemistry at Spring Arbor College, and Robert Laing, President of Clean Flow Laboratories, for their help on this article."


Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim. It is interesting to note that orginally there was no oxygen in our planet's atmosphere and that it has gone as high as 30%.

Dishonest claim. As someone with more than 15,000 dives, who has lived in underwater structures with radically different atmospheres, I have to say that this is complete and utter foolishness. We do rather well, even for long periods of time at oxygen concetrations down to about 16% and as high as well over 200% of surface partial pressure.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Your words are of no use. If you are saying he is lying, then you would have to prove it. As it is, science knows full well that the complexities and odds of the universe are massive. You make it sound like a walk in the park.. haha
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Jaareshia


That is not evidence for god. If the earth were not habitable, you would not be here. .

Haha... and what does that mean?!? Do you think you have explained something? You are saying he does not exist because we might not be here? How does that make sense. We ARE here, and the odds of the universe are fantastic. This is one reason why Dawkins and co favour the multiverse, as this helps the odds. He knows it is ridiculous without it. But where does the multiverse come from. perhaps like Dawkins, I could say he has 'just moved the problem one step further back' haha :)
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Your words are of no use. If you are saying he is lying, then you would have to prove it. As it is, science knows full well that the complexities and odds of the universe are massive. You make it sound like a walk in the park.. haha

Stop operating under the baseless assumption is here for us. Where here because it is as it is.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Where does the 'selection' process come from? Are you going to say it is natural?

Of course it is.

Let's say there is a God who created this universe and fine-tuned it for life, it means that the very essence or nature of Nature itself is to produce life, otherwise the "fine-tune" idea is moot. Either way, God or not God, the world is producing life. So life is natural.
 

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
Where does the 'selection' process come from? Are you going to say it is natural?
It can be either natural or artificial (human-controlled). Natural selection is a pretty logical process, even accepted by most creationists. Don't forget that it is just as much at work in micro-evolution as macro-evolution. You don't have to accept macro-evolution to accept natural selection.

Do you know how natural selection works? Do you know how scientists define it? If not, it can be explained pretty easily.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
Haha... and what does that mean?!? Do you think you have explained something? You are saying he does not exist because we might not be here?

No Robert, I have said nothing of the sort.
Now does that make sense. We ARE here, and the odds of the universe are fantastic.

Sorry Robert, but you can not calculate the probability of things being as they are, it is a nonsense.
This is one reason why Dawkins and co favour the multiverse, as this helps the odds. He knows it is ridiculous without it. But where does the multiverse come from. perhaps like Dawkins, I could say he has 'just moved the problem one step further back' haha :)

Robert, I don't mean to be rude - but Dawkins is a BIOLOGIST, not a cosmologist - the multiverse is COSMOLOGY.

Fine tuning is a nonsense.
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
Agreed. Luck chance coincidence randomness and chaos are not answers. They are mere cop outs to difficult questions, which certain people do not have the ability to see. it is God who gives us eyes.
We merely play out the words we are given.

By the way, Kaku has said in Parallel worlds, (I think) that there is likely to be intelligence behind it all. Plus early half the scietific world believes in God. Plus some of the top scientists like Francis Collins.

Everything is too complex, too complicated to have come about through chance events. But of course, when your mind is shut off, that is all you have :(

The "Wow, that's really, really complicated! Therefore god." argument is just contemptible intellectual laziness.

Complex things often arise from simple processes. Snowflakes, for example.

It's hilarious how creationists omit to mention selection or constraints when they rant about randomness.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
haha... right, Ok sir! I don't know what to say to that. I think you are saying, don't discuss this as it exists.. haha :)

Think of it this way - the fine tuning argument is like exclaiming astonishment that your legs are the exact same length as the distance from your rear to the ground.
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Of course it is.

Let's say there is a God who created this universe and fine-tuned it for life, it means that the very essence or nature of Nature itself is to produce life, otherwise the "fine-tune" idea is moot. Either way, God or not God, the world is producing life. So life is natural.

If it is 'natural', then what is the difference in saying that, natural did it, compared with God did it?

You thinking is not my thinking. Everything is an evolving consciousness. that is how all things are here, and how they evolved, and what they are. Consciousness. That's it.

But to say something is natural means what? This is what I don't understand. What are you comparing it with that makes you think it is natural... and therefore is just going to happen, sir?
 

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
It can be either natural or artificial (human-controlled). Natural selection is a pretty logical process, even accepted by most creationists. Don't forget that it is just as much at work in micro-evolution as macro-evolution. You don't have to accept macro-evolution to accept natural selection.

Do you know how natural selection works? Do you know how scientists define it? If not, it can be explained pretty easily.

At least when you asked you didn't ridicule eh. :) I understand the basics, i believe in evolution.

The question that I was trying to provoke was this: It is all well and good saying that evolution primarily works on random changes, which by themselves will not work... and then adding into the pot this 'magical' idea of natural selection.

Understand it this way: we could all imagine making a machine that makes something else automatically, with no assistance required. Does that mean it has no intelligence involved in it? No.

So how is it that there is something that works in this so-called 'natural' way, that makes things which are random become non-random.

Do you not think it is somewhat contrived?

Anyone could do that.

What is this 'magical' natural that makes all this happen? What is the difference in saying that God selects it? I ask that as an argument. :)

Please don't explain natural selection to me. I want to know what it came from to be in the position it then stand in to select what it needs to make everything work. Is it luck???
 
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