There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

[outhouse]

I didn't say all the sick. .

Move goal post much out of desperation?


How honest is that?

 

[serp777]

That you think this is enough to tell me that you do not have a clue about the Christian faith and what it stands for. You are arguing from complete ignorance so I cannot even make you accountable for this drivel. He has made a universe that depends solely on natural laws, to him. We have not discovered the other natural laws yet which makes them supernatural until we can give an explanation for it.



"This is Crap" How very eloquent and intellectual. "This is crap", should I answer it and put it down to your ignorance on the subject or should I answer it to demonstrate your ignorance on the subject. I was a little concerned that the statement might go clear over the heads of some and you have demonstrably shown that it has. A thief need not be caught and tried in front of a jury of his peers to reap justice for his crime, likewise, a murderer does not require a conviction to pay for his crime.

We are mortal human beings who are subjected to illnesses and disease, as are our counterparts in the animal Kingdom. Unfortunately, some of us suffer painfully inhumane health problems whilst others stay free of them. That is why it is essential for the well and healthy to help in looking after the sick and informed. God could intervene and he could cure every sick person that lives, however, as I have said, and explained many times now, God cannot intervene, however, those of us who can draw upon the powers of heaven can cure the sick. I have witnessed it many time and have seen the astounded look on doctors and surgeons faces when these miraculous cures take place. Call me a fool, but there is a way to relieve sickness using our own power of healing and Gods will. The biggest drawback to this resource is people like yourself creating a world where religion is outlawed as the believe of the mentally unstable so it is not utilised anywhere near as much as I'd could be, should be. That is down to the scepticism of mankind and their lack of spirituality. So if you are looking for someone to blame look to the proactive aggressive atheists who stifle the important use of faith healing.

"That you think this is enough to tell me that you do not have a clue about the Christian faith and what it stands for. "

This was a useless sentence.

"You are arguing from complete ignorance so I cannot even make you accountable for this drivel."

Even more useless, not mention false. Unsubstantiated claim 101.

"How very eloquent and intellectual."

And sarcasm is very unsophisticated and unintellectual. You just embarrassed yourself and exposed your hypocrisy.

"This is crap", should I answer it and put it down to your ignorance on the subject or should I answer it to demonstrate your ignorance on the subject. I was a little concerned that the statement might go clear over the heads of some and you have demonstrably shown that it has.

Yet another useless mini paragraph that includes an arrogant ad hominem. Instead of actually pointing out the ignorance, you've decided to write about essentially nothing.

"We have not discovered the other natural laws yet which makes them supernatural until we can give an explanation for it."

That's called undiscovered science, not supernatural. Supernatural things defy science and cannot be explained by science. If something can be explained by science it is simply undiscovered science. The cosmological consciousness is a completely unsubstantiated construct you pulled out of thin air, failing to provide a single tid bit of evidence or reasoning to support it, for example.

God could intervene and he could cure every sick person that lives, however, as I have said, and explained many times now, God cannot intervene, however, those of us who can draw upon the powers of heaven can cure the sick.

LOL. Seriously? First, as has been mentioned many times in this thread: don't tell God what to do, quoting Neils Bhor here. He can do anything he wants whenever he wants because he is God. Second, I completely dismiss and reject your God radio in which you get information about God as much as I reject the suicide bomber who thinks he has a hotline to Allah. And if you believe that you can draw upon the powers of heaven, the you might have delusions of grandeur. That is magical thinking.

"I have witnessed it many time and have seen the astounded look on doctors and surgeons faces when these miraculous cures take place."

Anecdotal evidence from a biased source; it also does not mean it was God, or that it was related to the Christian faith. Perhaps it was an Islamic miracle, or a hindu miracle, or a scientology miracle.

Call me a fool, but there is a way to relieve sickness using our own power of healing and Gods will.

Placebo effect sometimes works; but placebo doesn't work as well as effective medicine. You make it sound magical and powered by God. It's just biological repair mechanisms. I can direct you to cell repair on a wikipedia page if you wish,a nd also placebo.

The biggest drawback to this resource is people like yourself creating a world where religion is outlawed as the believe of the mentally unstable so it is not utilised anywhere near as much as I'd could be, should be.

Besides being poorly constructed sentence, I never claimed that religious people were inherently mentally unstable or that religion should be outlawed. This is simply an attempt to mislead from the central argument by making irrelevant commentary on what people like me may or may not be.

 

[serp777]

You doing a fine job of that without us needing to help.


And your factually wrong, in many cases. To the point your statement is dangerous, and you should be noted as having bad credibility.

Positive suggestion does help, and prayer can benefit, but it is very limited in scope.

IT CANNOT REPLACE SCIENCE OR A DOCTOR

It's all placebo effect. When it works they take credit for it; when it doesn't work God works in mysterious ways and humans suffer because God cannot interfere, or they can't get their magical powers up that day. Maybe they can make heavenly healing power viagra?

 

[jaareshiah]

Is there evidence of a Supreme Designer ? Many who are scholastically capable, feel that that no one brought all life and the universe into existence, but is the product of an "accident".

They, along with others, follow the thoughts of noted evolutionists such as Richard Dawkins and Richard C. Lewontin or of theoretical physicists such as Michio Kaku or Lawrence Krauss or astronomer Phil Plait in believing that there is no God. Sound reasoning does not always come with high academic capablities. The power of greed has been the undoing of some CEOs. But concerning the universe and the life that exists within it, consider this.

(1) distance of the earth from the sun. If the earth were 5 percent closer, life would cease to exist because of intense heat. If the earth were just 1 percent farther away, it would become freezingly cold. The earth is located in what is called the circumstellar habitable zone, where life neither fries nor freezes. Our solar system is located some 28,000 light years from the center of the Milky Way, called the galactic habitable zone where radiation is not deadly and the elements we need are readily available. Just an accident ?

(2) Consider the size of the earth. If the earth were just slightly smaller, the strength of gravity would be less, causing surface water and oxygen to drift away from the earth, rendering the earth lifeless. If the earth were slightly larger, gravity would be stronger and the light gas hydrogen (which is highly explosive, requiring only 1/10 of the energy to ignite as gasoline in the presence of oxygen, in which the flames are hard to see and hard to fight) would not escape at its prescribed rate and build up, eventually causing life to cease by asphyxiation.

Gravity as it precisely is now, allows for water evaporation to reach a point in height (and hydrogen to slowly disperse at a prescribed rate into space), forming (cumulus) clouds for rain but go no further (with the atmosphere divided into 5 layers, troposphere (about 7 miles), stratosphere (about 7-31 miles), mesosphere [about 31-50 miles, as low as -135 degrees F.], thermosphere [about 50-310 miles, reaching over 4,000 degrees F.] and exosphere [to deep into space]).

(3) And this leads up to a question. Why is our atmosphere 78 percent nitrogen and 21 percent oxygen ? Because of the precise size of the earth that allows the explosive light gas hydrogen to properly escape, and the inert gas of nitrogen being the major portion of our atmosphere in conjunction with oxygen, what assessment can be obtained ? That this was accidental, that it just happened by chance ?

When a diver is going down fairly deep into the ocean, does he not have to ensure that the gases he breathes underwater are the right combination for his safety ? Since that is so, can we rightly conclude that the exact mixture of gases in our atmosphere was a random act of a mindless theory called evolution ? Does precision or organization ever happen by chance ?

(4) Evolution teaches that man came about through a series of accidental situations, in which amino acids formed "just right" to make a protein. But consider that for a protein to be created, requires RNA (ribonucleic acid) and RNA requires proteins for it be made (it has been estimated that the probability of just one protein of just 100 amino acids forming at random is about 1 chance in a million billion). So how could either one arise by chance, let alone both, and at the same time and in the same place ? And we have not even considered the DNA. nor reached up to the formation of a single cell.

Think of a wall safe with its sequence of numbers. If one number is wrong or out of sequence, the safe will not open. Likewise, if one amino acid is out sequence within a protein, it fails to function. A wall safe was designed by a mind, so should it be accepted that a protein, that is of far greater complexity, came about by accident ?

But consider that a cell has over 2,000 proteins that serve as enzymes. What are the odds of all of them randomly occurring ? They have been calculated as 10 followed by 40,000 zeroes or the same as the chance of throwing an uninterrupted sequence of 50,000 sixes with unbiased dice!" (The Intelligent Universe, F. Hoyle, 1983, pages　11-12, 17,　23)

 

[adi2d]

Is there evidence of a Supreme Designer ? Many who are scholastically capable, feel that that no one brought all life and the universe into existence, but is the product of an "accident".

They, along with others, follow the thoughts of noted evolutionists such as Richard Dawkins and Richard C. Lewontin or of theoretical physicists such as Michio Kaku or Lawrence Krauss or astronomer Phil Plait in believing that there is no God. Sound reasoning does not always come with high academic capablities. The power of greed has been the undoing of some CEOs. But concerning the universe and the life that exists within it, consider this.

(1) distance of the earth from the sun. If the earth were 5 percent closer, life would cease to exist because of intense heat. If the earth were just 1 percent farther away, it would become freezingly cold. The earth is located in what is called the circumstellar habitable zone, where life neither fries nor freezes. Our solar system is located some 28,000 light years from the center of the Milky Way, called the galactic habitable zone where radiation is not deadly and the elements we need are readily available. Just an accident ?

(2) Consider the size of the earth. If the earth were just slightly smaller, the strength of gravity would be less, causing surface water and oxygen to drift away from the earth, rendering the earth lifeless. If the earth were slightly larger, gravity would be stronger and the light gas hydrogen (which is highly explosive, requiring only 1/10 of the energy to ignite as gasoline in the presence of oxygen, in which the flames are hard to see and hard to fight) would not escape at its prescribed rate and build up, eventually causing life to cease by asphyxiation.

Gravity as it precisely is now, allows for water evaporation to reach a point in height (and hydrogen to slowly disperse at a prescribed rate into space), forming (cumulus) clouds for rain but go no further (with the atmosphere divided into 5 layers, troposphere (about 7 miles), stratosphere (about 7-31 miles), mesosphere [about 31-50 miles, as low as -135 degrees F.], thermosphere [about 50-310 miles, reaching over 4,000 degrees F.] and exosphere [to deep into space]).

(3) And this leads up to a question. Why is our atmosphere 78 percent nitrogen and 21 percent oxygen ? Because of the precise size of the earth that allows the explosive light gas hydrogen to properly escape, and the inert gas of nitrogen being the major portion of our atmosphere in conjunction with oxygen, what assessment can be obtained ? That this was accidental, that it just happened by chance ?

When a diver is going down fairly deep into the ocean, does he not have to ensure that the gases he breathes underwater are the right combination for his safety ? Since that is so, can we rightly conclude that the exact mixture of gases in our atmosphere was a random act of a mindless theory called evolution ? Does precision or organization ever happen by chance ?

(4) Evolution teaches that man came about through a series of accidental situations, in which amino acids formed "just right" to make a protein. But consider that for a protein to be created, requires RNA (ribonucleic acid) and RNA requires proteins for it be made (it has been estimated that the probability of just one protein of just 100 amino acids forming at random is about 1 chance in a million billion). So how could either one arise by chance, let alone both, and at the same time and in the same place ? And we have not even considered the DNA. nor reached up to the formation of a single cell.

Think of a wall safe with its sequence of numbers. If one number is wrong or out of sequence, the safe will not open. Likewise, if one amino acid is out sequence within a protein, it fails to function. A wall safe was designed by a mind, so should it be accepted that a protein, that is of far greater complexity, came about by accident ?

But consider that a cell has over 2,000 proteins that serve as enzymes. What are the odds of all of them randomly occurring ? They have been calculated as 10 followed by 40,000 zeroes or the same as the chance of throwing an uninterrupted sequence of 50,000 sixes with unbiased dice!" (The Intelligent Universe, F. Hoyle, 1983, pages?11-12, 17,?23)

Please show the math

 

[Ouroboros]

(1) distance of the earth from the sun. If the earth were 5 percent closer, life would cease to exist because of intense heat. If the earth were just 1 percent farther away, it would become freezingly cold. The earth is located in what is called the circumstellar habitable zone, where life neither fries nor freezes. Our solar system is located some 28,000 light years from the center of the Milky Way, called the galactic habitable zone where radiation is not deadly and the elements we need are readily available. Just an accident ?

There must be something completely wrong with this "fact". It's some kind of propaganda that's been used for years without anyone caring enough to look up Earth's orbit around the Sun. It's not circular. It's elliptical.

As such, elliptical path, it has a aphelion, 152 km, and perihelion, 147 km.

That's about 3% difference!!! So how can it be that we can't be 1% here nor there or a 5% here or there, but yet we are changing a whole 3% every year?

And also, the distance used to be different millions of years ago. The same with the Moon. The climate was different, and so was the wildlife. Humans would not have been fit for that climate, but that's why we can live in this current climate. If it changes too much, we won't be able to anymore, but other life forms can.

(2) Consider the size of the earth. If the earth were just slightly smaller, the strength of gravity would be less, causing surface water and oxygen to drift away from the earth, rendering the earth lifeless. If the earth were slightly larger, gravity would be stronger and the light gas hydrogen (which is highly explosive, requiring only 1/10 of the energy to ignite as gasoline in the presence of oxygen, in which the flames are hard to see and hard to fight) would not escape at its prescribed rate and build up, eventually causing life to cease by asphyxiation.

Not true. Water and oxygen exists on Mars, which has less gravity. They now also found water on Mercury, which is extremely hot and closer to the Sun and much less mass.

Gravity as it precisely is now, allows for water evaporation to reach a point in height (and hydrogen to slowly disperse at a prescribed rate into space), forming (cumulus) clouds for rain but go no further (with the atmosphere divided into 5 layers, troposphere (about 7 miles), stratosphere (about 7-31 miles), mesosphere [about 31-50 miles, as low as -135 degrees F.], thermosphere [about 50-310 miles, reaching over 4,000 degrees F.] and exosphere [to deep into space]).

It's not that precise at all. Our water is strongly influenced by the Moon, the Sun, and the other planetary objects in our solar system.

(3) And this leads up to a question. Why is our atmosphere 78 percent nitrogen and 21 percent oxygen ? Because of the precise size of the earth that allows the explosive light gas hydrogen to properly escape, and the inert gas of nitrogen being the major portion of our atmosphere in conjunction with oxygen, what assessment can be obtained ? That this was accidental, that it just happened by chance ?

It wasn't always exactly 78% nitrogen. The dinosaurs lived in a less oxygen rich atmosphere (if I got it right). And it's based on evidence, not wild guesses based on wishful thinking.

When a diver is going down fairly deep into the ocean, does he not have to ensure that the gases he breathes underwater are the right combination for his safety ? Since that is so, can we rightly conclude that the exact mixture of gases in our atmosphere was a random act of a mindless theory called evolution ? Does precision or organization ever happen by chance ?

And those mixture has to be different at the pressure in the deep sea.

(4) Evolution teaches that man came about through a series of accidental situations, in which amino acids formed "just right" to make a protein. But consider that for a protein to be created, requires RNA (ribonucleic acid) and RNA requires proteins for it be made (it has been estimated that the probability of just one protein of just 100 amino acids forming at random is about 1 chance in a million billion). So how could either one arise by chance, let alone both, and at the same time and in the same place ? And we have not even considered the DNA. nor reached up to the formation of a single cell.

First of all, the amino acids already existed before humans came on the scene. We also know from research and observation that DNA does change, and sometimes have beneficial mutations.

If the chances are so slim, as you suggest, then what are the chances that two species share the exact same genetic flaws in one of the genes without being related? Oh, God gave those two species the exact same broken gene? Really? To trick us?

Think of a wall safe with its sequence of numbers. If one number is wrong or out of sequence, the safe will not open. Likewise, if one amino acid is out sequence within a protein, it fails to function. A wall safe was designed by a mind, so should it be accepted that a protein, that is of far greater complexity, came about by accident ?

Sounds like you don't know what analogous genes are or what it means that 32 combinations of nucleotides only bring about 20 peptides. Do you understand synonymous mutations? Do you know that most of the peptides are decided by only two nucleotides in the codon?

But consider that a cell has over 2,000 proteins that serve as enzymes. What are the odds of all of them randomly occurring ? They have been calculated as 10 followed by 40,000 zeroes or the same as the chance of throwing an uninterrupted sequence of 50,000 sixes with unbiased dice!" (The Intelligent Universe, F. Hoyle, 1983, pages　11-12, 17,　23)

It wasn't just "random". There's also selection.

Have you ever played Yatzee!? I guess no one every wins in that game according to your "math".

Genetic change and evolution is not a matter of "uninterrupted sequence". It's very much interrupted. It's the interruption that makes it work. The interruptions are the natural selections from a diverse pool of genetic material.

The problem is... genetic algorithms work in reality. They've been used in professional applications like oil pipeline control systems, networks, financial software, robotics, and much more. So to say that "mutation-fitness" isn't a feasible process, is to deny the evidence that you're sitting at a computer, browsing randomly on Internet, and select articles that fits your attitude, ideas, and beliefs. Internet=Random data. You=Selective procedure of fitness. Result=your pick of data.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That you think this is enough to tell me that you do not have a clue about the Christian faith and what it stands for. You are arguing from complete ignorance so I cannot even make you accountable for this drivel. He has made a universe that depends solely on natural laws, to him. We have not discovered the other natural laws yet which makes them supernatural until we can give an explanation for it.



"This is Crap" How very eloquent and intellectual. "This is crap", should I answer it and put it down to your ignorance on the subject or should I answer it to demonstrate your ignorance on the subject. I was a little concerned that the statement might go clear over the heads of some and you have demonstrably shown that it has. A thief need not be caught and tried in front of a jury of his peers to reap justice for his crime, likewise, a murderer does not require a conviction to pay for his crime.

We are mortal human beings who are subjected to illnesses and disease, as are our counterparts in the animal Kingdom. Unfortunately, some of us suffer painfully inhumane health problems whilst others stay free of them. That is why it is essential for the well and healthy to help in looking after the sick and informed. God could intervene and he could cure every sick person that lives, however, as I have said, and explained many times now, God cannot intervene, however, those of us who can draw upon the powers of heaven can cure the sick. I have witnessed it many time and have seen the astounded look on doctors and surgeons faces when these miraculous cures take place. Call me a fool, but there is a way to relieve sickness using our own power of healing and Gods will. The biggest drawback to this resource is people like yourself creating a world where religion is outlawed as the believe of the mentally unstable so it is not utilised anywhere near as much as I'd could be, should be. That is down to the scepticism of mankind and their lack of spirituality. So if you are looking for someone to blame look to the proactive aggressive atheists who stifle the important use of faith healing.

Wait, what?

God cannot intervene to heal sick people but human beings can use some kind of heaven power to intervene and heal people? You make humans out to be more powerful than the god you believe in. Is that your intention?

 

[Iti oj]

Wait, what?

God cannot intervene to heal sick people but human beings can use some kind of heaven power to intervene and heal people? You make humans out to be more powerful than the god you believe in. Is that your intention?

Humans are number 1!

 

[Serenity7855]

Quote:

"That you think this is enough to tell me that you do not have a clue about the Christian faith and what it stands for. "

This was a useless sentence.
Quote:

Well I would disagree. It's purpose was to indicate that you have made a comment the demonstrably shows your ignorance the subject being discussed, so, one is then better prepared when a similar statement is made.

"You are arguing from complete ignorance so I cannot even make you accountable for this drivel."

Even more useless, not mention false. Unsubstantiated claim 101.

See previous response above.

Quote:
"How very eloquent and intellectual."

And sarcasm is very unsophisticated and unintellectual. You just embarrassed yourself and exposed your hypocrisy.

Not when it is used to expose the same. I believe that the embarrassment is completely yours.

How have you determined that my sarcasm has exposed my hypoicrisy? Where have I demonstrated hypocrisy.

Quote:
"This is crap", should I answer it and put it down to your ignorance on the subject or should I answer it to demonstrate your ignorance on the subject. I was a little concerned that the statement might go clear over the heads of some and you have demonstrably shown that it has.

Yet another useless mini paragraph that includes an arrogant ad hominem. Instead of actually pointing out the ignorance, you've decided to write about essentially nothing.

Again I disagree. Your use of provocative language demonstrably shows your willingness to offend and insult other posters with no remorse as to whether you hurt their feeling or not. It therefore gives other posters a profile of who you are and why you are here. That is not a useless paragraph, quite the opposite.

Quote:
"We have not discovered the other natural laws yet which makes them supernatural until we can give an explanation for it."

That's called undiscovered science, not supernatural. Supernatural things defy science and cannot be explained by science. If something can be explained by science it is simply undiscovered science. The cosmological consciousness is a completely unsubstantiated construct you pulled out of thin air, failing to provide a single tid bit of evidence or reasoning to support it, for example.

You are wrong. If it is outside of the natural world then it is supernatural. Not really important, you are using simantec to detract from your failure to make any coherent points.

Supernatural

1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.
3. Of or relating to a deity.
4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous.
5. Of or relating to the miraculous


natural - existing in or in conformity with nature or the observable world; neither supernatural nor magical; "a perfectly natural explanation"

Cosmic Consciousness

Cosmic Consciousness: A Study in the Evolution of the Human Mind is a book written by Richard Maurice Bucke, a Canadian psychiatrist. In this book, he explored the concept of Cosmic Consciousness, which he defined as "a higher form of consciousness than that possessed by the ordinary man."

Wiki

People make this silly statements when they do not keep up with the ever changing world of science. What a fool I would be to make it up and the post it on here for the dissecting vultures to pick apart.

Quote:
God could intervene and he could cure every sick person that lives, however, as I have said, and explained many times now, God cannot intervene, however, those of us who can draw upon the powers of heaven can cure the sick.

LOL. Seriously? First, as has been mentioned many times in this thread: don't tell God what to do, quoting Neils Bhor here. He can do anything he wants whenever he wants because he is God. Second, I completely dismiss and reject your God radio in which you get information about God as much as I reject the suicide bomber who thinks he has a hotline to Allah. And if you believe that you can draw upon the powers of heaven, the you might have delusions of grandeur. That is magical thinking.

You do not understand who and what God is, if you did then you would not write such nonsense.

Quote:
"I have witnessed it many time and have seen the astounded look on doctors and surgeons faces when these miraculous cures take place."

Anecdotal evidence from a biased source; it also does not mean it was God, or that it was related to the Christian faith. Perhaps it was an Islamic miracle, or a hindu miracle, or a scientology miracle.

Is it possible to be biased at watching something that shouldn't be happening, happening? It was not God. It was the faith of the person giving the sickness blessing and the faith of the recipient.

Quote:
Call me a fool, but there is a way to relieve sickness using our own power of healing and Gods will.

Placebo effect sometimes works; but placebo doesn't work as well as effective medicine. You make it sound magical and powered by God. It's just biological repair mechanisms. I can direct you to cell repair on a wikipedia page if you wish,a nd also placebo.

You need to look up the definition of "Placebo". Your use of it here is completely out of context, and, therefore, irrelevant.

Scientifically tested medication is always the first port of call, however, if your faith is sufficiently strong enough then it does no harm to try it. i have first hand experience of this and have witnessed it in action, with a minimal chance that it rectified itself. It is obstinant scepticism that causes your search for any answer other then accept the truth.

Quote:
The biggest drawback to this resource is people like yourself creating a world where religion is outlawed as the believe of the mentally unstable so it is not utilised anywhere near as much as I'd could be, should be.

Besides being poorly constructed sentence, I never claimed that religious people were inherently mentally unstable or that religion should be outlawed. This is simply an attempt to mislead from the central argument by making irrelevant commentary on what people like me may or may not be.

You are a antitheist.

 

[adi2d]

Can one of the mods contact the Roto Rooter Guys?
I thought this thread was finally flushed but it keeps bubbling to the surface

 

[Bunyip]

Jaareshia

(1) distance of the earth from the sun. If the earth were 5 percent closer, life would cease to exist because of intense heat. If the earth were just 1 percent farther away, it would become freezingly cold. The earth is located in what is called the circumstellar habitable zone, where life neither fries nor freezes. Our solar system is located some 28,000 light years from the center of the Milky Way, called the galactic habitable zone where radiation is not deadly and the elements we need are readily available. Just an accident ?

That is not evidence for god. If the earth were not habitable, you would not be here. This sort of reasoning is along the same lines as claiming that if your legs were an inch shorter, they would not reach the ground.
Same goes for your 2nd and 3rd point, which is essentially the same fallacy as your first point.

(4) Evolution teaches that man came about through a series of accidental situations, in which amino acids formed "just right" to make a protein.

No it doesn't. EVOLUTION is not random accident.

But consider that for a protein to be created, requires RNA (ribonucleic acid) and RNA requires proteins for it be made (it has been estimated that the probability of just one protein of just 100 amino acids forming at random is about 1 chance in a million billion). So how could either one arise by chance, let alone both, and at the same time and in the same place ? And we have not even considered the DNA. nor reached up to the formation of a single cell.

Well they don't form by chance, so your probability calculations are fallacious. Neither evolution, npr the formation of RNA is accident or chance.

Think of a wall safe with its sequence of numbers. If one number is wrong or out of sequence, the safe will not open. Likewise, if one amino acid is out sequence within a protein, it fails to function. A wall safe was designed by a mind, so should it be accepted that a protein, that is of far greater complexity, came about by accident ?

But consider that a cell has over 2,000 proteins that serve as enzymes. What are the odds of all of them randomly occurring ? They have been calculated as 10 followed by 40,000 zeroes or the same as the chance of throwing an uninterrupted sequence of 50,000 sixes with unbiased dice!" (The Intelligent Universe, F. Hoyle, 1983, pages　11-12, 17,　23)

 

[Sapiens]

Don't you think you should give credit for this post to the Institute for Creation Research web site and Jerry Bergman, Ph.D. 1985. The Earth: Unique in All the Universe. Acts & Facts. 14 (6), as he requests? He is at least honest enough to say, "My thanks to Dr. David Johnson, Professor of Chemistry at Spring Arbor College, and Robert Laing, President of Clean Flow Laboratories, for their help on this article."

Is there evidence of a Supreme Designer ? Many who are scholastically capable, feel that that no one brought all life and the universe into existence, but is the product of an "accident".

Dishonest claim.

They, along with others, follow the thoughts of noted evolutionists such as Richard Dawkins and Richard C. Lewontin or of theoretical physicists such as Michio Kaku or Lawrence Krauss or astronomer Phil Plait in believing that there is no God.

Dishonest claim.

Sound reasoning does not always come with high academic capablities. The power of greed has been the undoing of some CEOs. But concerning the universe and the life that exists within it, consider this.

(1) distance of the earth from the sun. If the earth were 5 percent closer, life would cease to exist because of intense heat. If the earth were just 1 percent farther away, it would become freezingly cold. The earth is located in what is called the circumstellar habitable zone, where life neither fries nor freezes. Our solar system is located some 28,000 light years from the center of the Milky Way, called the galactic habitable zone where radiation is not deadly and the elements we need are readily available. Just an accident ?

Dishonest claim.

(2) Consider the size of the earth. If the earth were just slightly smaller, the strength of gravity would be less, causing surface water and oxygen to drift away from the earth, rendering the earth lifeless. If the earth were slightly larger, gravity would be stronger and the light gas hydrogen (which is highly explosive, requiring only 1/10 of the energy to ignite as gasoline in the presence of oxygen, in which the flames are hard to see and hard to fight) would not escape at its prescribed rate and build up, eventually causing life to cease by asphyxiation.

Dishonest claim.

Gravity as it precisely is now, allows for water evaporation to reach a point in height (and hydrogen to slowly disperse at a prescribed rate into space), forming (cumulus) clouds for rain but go no further (with the atmosphere divided into 5 layers, troposphere (about 7 miles), stratosphere (about 7-31 miles), mesosphere [about 31-50 miles, as low as -135 degrees F.], thermosphere [about 50-310 miles, reaching over 4,000 degrees F.] and exosphere [to deep into space]).

Dishonest claim.

(3) And this leads up to a question. Why is our atmosphere 78 percent nitrogen and 21 percent oxygen ? Because of the precise size of the earth that allows the explosive light gas hydrogen to properly escape, and the inert gas of nitrogen being the major portion of our atmosphere in conjunction with oxygen, what assessment can be obtained ? That this was accidental, that it just happened by chance ?

Dishonest claim. It is interesting to note that orginally there was no oxygen in our planet's atmosphere and that it has gone as high as 30%.

When a diver is going down fairly deep into the ocean, does he not have to ensure that the gases he breathes underwater are the right combination for his safety ? Since that is so, can we rightly conclude that the exact mixture of gases in our atmosphere was a random act of a mindless theory called evolution ? Does precision or organization ever happen by chance ?

Dishonest claim. As someone with more than 15,000 dives, who has lived in underwater structures with radically different atmospheres, I have to say that this is complete and utter foolishness. We do rather well, even for long periods of time at oxygen concetrations down to about 16% and as high as well over 200% of surface partial pressure.

(4) Evolution teaches that man came about through a series of accidental situations, in which amino acids formed "just right" to make a protein. But consider that for a protein to be created, requires RNA (ribonucleic acid) and RNA requires proteins for it be made (it has been estimated that the probability of just one protein of just 100 amino acids forming at random is about 1 chance in a million billion). So how could either one arise by chance, let alone both, and at the same time and in the same place ? And we have not even considered the DNA. nor reached up to the formation of a single cell.

Dishonest claim.

Think of a wall safe with its sequence of numbers. If one number is wrong or out of sequence, the safe will not open. Likewise, if one amino acid is out sequence within a protein, it fails to function. A wall safe was designed by a mind, so should it be accepted that a protein, that is of far greater complexity, came about by accident ?

Dishonest claim.

But consider that a cell has over 2,000 proteins that serve as enzymes. What are the odds of all of them randomly occurring ? They have been calculated as 10 followed by 40,000 zeroes or the same as the chance of throwing an uninterrupted sequence of 50,000 sixes with unbiased dice!" (The Intelligent Universe, F. Hoyle, 1983, pages　11-12, 17,　23)

Dishonest claim.

 

[Serenity7855]

Don't you think you should give credit for this post to the Institute for Creation Research web site and Jerry Bergman, Ph.D. 1985. The Earth: Unique in All the Universe. Acts & Facts. 14 (6), as he requests? He is at least honest enough to say, "My thanks to Dr. David Johnson, Professor of Chemistry at Spring Arbor College, and Robert Laing, President of Clean Flow Laboratories, for their help on this article."


Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim. It is interesting to note that orginally there was no oxygen in our planet's atmosphere and that it has gone as high as 30%.

Dishonest claim. As someone with more than 15,000 dives, who has lived in underwater structures with radically different atmospheres, I have to say that this is complete and utter foolishness. We do rather well, even for long periods of time at oxygen concetrations down to about 16% and as high as well over 200% of surface partial pressure.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

Dishonest claim.

He might not have sourced his quotes but every one of them is pretty accurate and delivers an effective Coup de gras to those who think that the universe has not been finely tuned

 

[outhouse]

delivers a Coup de gras to those he think that the universe has not been fine tuned

Unsubstantiated dribble.


It is anything but fined tuned. It is not a good place for life at all.


Maybe you do not understand the most species that have ever existed are long extinct.

And life so scarce in the universe we cannot detect other forms yet.

 

[Bunyip]

He might not have sourced his quotes but every one of them is pretty accurate and delivers an effective Coup de gras to those who think that the universe has not been finely tuned

The 'fine tuning' argument is a logical nonsense. It is like saying that your legs are 'fine tuned' to be the exact right distance from your butt to the ground.

If the universe was fine tuned for anything - it would be to favour the emptiness of vacuum.

 

[Looncall]

He might not have sourced his quotes but every one of them is pretty accurate and delivers an effective Coup de gras to those who think that the universe has not been finely tuned

If you were transported to a random location in the universe, or, for that matter, on the earth, your chances of surviving would be negligible. The universe is far from finely tuned for life.

Life is barely possible at all. The fine-tuning argument is a scam. It is Douglas Adams' famous story of a puddle marvelling at how well its pothole fits its shape.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Is there evidence of a Supreme Designer ? Many who are scholastically capable, feel that that no one brought all life and the universe into existence, but is the product of an "accident".

They, along with others, follow the thoughts of noted evolutionists such as Richard Dawkins and Richard C. Lewontin or of theoretical physicists such as Michio Kaku or Lawrence Krauss or astronomer Phil Plait in believing that there is no God. Sound reasoning does not always come with high academic capablities. The power of greed has been the undoing of some CEOs. But concerning the universe and the life that exists within it, consider this.

(1) distance of the earth from the sun. If the earth were 5 percent closer, life would cease to exist because of intense heat. If the earth were just 1 percent farther away, it would become freezingly cold. The earth is located in what is called the circumstellar habitable zone, where life neither fries nor freezes. Our solar system is located some 28,000 light years from the center of the Milky Way, called the galactic habitable zone where radiation is not deadly and the elements we need are readily available. Just an accident ?

(2) Consider the size of the earth. If the earth were just slightly smaller, the strength of gravity would be less, causing surface water and oxygen to drift away from the earth, rendering the earth lifeless. If the earth were slightly larger, gravity would be stronger and the light gas hydrogen (which is highly explosive, requiring only 1/10 of the energy to ignite as gasoline in the presence of oxygen, in which the flames are hard to see and hard to fight) would not escape at its prescribed rate and build up, eventually causing life to cease by asphyxiation.

Gravity as it precisely is now, allows for water evaporation to reach a point in height (and hydrogen to slowly disperse at a prescribed rate into space), forming (cumulus) clouds for rain but go no further (with the atmosphere divided into 5 layers, troposphere (about 7 miles), stratosphere (about 7-31 miles), mesosphere [about 31-50 miles, as low as -135 degrees F.], thermosphere [about 50-310 miles, reaching over 4,000 degrees F.] and exosphere [to deep into space]).

(3) And this leads up to a question. Why is our atmosphere 78 percent nitrogen and 21 percent oxygen ? Because of the precise size of the earth that allows the explosive light gas hydrogen to properly escape, and the inert gas of nitrogen being the major portion of our atmosphere in conjunction with oxygen, what assessment can be obtained ? That this was accidental, that it just happened by chance ?

When a diver is going down fairly deep into the ocean, does he not have to ensure that the gases he breathes underwater are the right combination for his safety ? Since that is so, can we rightly conclude that the exact mixture of gases in our atmosphere was a random act of a mindless theory called evolution ? Does precision or organization ever happen by chance ?

(4) Evolution teaches that man came about through a series of accidental situations, in which amino acids formed "just right" to make a protein. But consider that for a protein to be created, requires RNA (ribonucleic acid) and RNA requires proteins for it be made (it has been estimated that the probability of just one protein of just 100 amino acids forming at random is about 1 chance in a million billion). So how could either one arise by chance, let alone both, and at the same time and in the same place ? And we have not even considered the DNA. nor reached up to the formation of a single cell.

Think of a wall safe with its sequence of numbers. If one number is wrong or out of sequence, the safe will not open. Likewise, if one amino acid is out sequence within a protein, it fails to function. A wall safe was designed by a mind, so should it be accepted that a protein, that is of far greater complexity, came about by accident ?

But consider that a cell has over 2,000 proteins that serve as enzymes. What are the odds of all of them randomly occurring ? They have been calculated as 10 followed by 40,000 zeroes or the same as the chance of throwing an uninterrupted sequence of 50,000 sixes with unbiased dice!" (The Intelligent Universe, F. Hoyle, 1983, pages　11-12, 17,　23)

I would be keen to see your sources for all this.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Humans are number 1!

:jam:unk::danana:

 

[Parsimony]

(2) Consider the size of the earth. If the earth were just slightly smaller, the strength of gravity would be less,

Not if it was more dense to compensate.

causing surface water and oxygen to drift away from the earth, rendering the earth lifeless.

That would depend exactly on how much weaker the gravity was as well as the composition of the atmosphere. Venus has slightly less gravity than Earth but has a much, much thicker atmosphere (having more than 90 times as much pressure at its surface as Earth does). The thickness of a planet's atmosphere is not something that can be calculated directly from its surface gravity.

If the earth were slightly larger, gravity would be stronger and the light gas hydrogen (which is highly explosive, requiring only 1/10 of the energy to ignite as gasoline in the presence of oxygen, in which the flames are hard to see and hard to fight)

The LEL (Lower Explosive Limit) for hydrogen gas in air is 4% by volume. Any less than that and the hydrogen won't burn. Currently, there is only about 0.6 parts per million hydrogen in air at ground level. So the level could be much, much higher without risking getting burned up. An atmosphere composed of a significant mix of hydrogen and oxygen is unstable anyway, slowly converting into water as that is the more stable configuration. As long as there is more oxygen than hydrogen, excess oxygen will be left over after all the hydrogen has been locked up in water molecules.

would not escape at its prescribed rate and build up, eventually causing life to cease by asphyxiation.

Hydrogen is non-toxic. As long as there is sufficient oxygen mixed in with it, you could breathe it just fine. The UEL (Upper Explosive Limit) for hydrogen gas is 75% by volume, meaning that any mixture of hydrogen and oxygen at room temperature and pressure that contains more than 75% hydrogen by volume will not burn. If air was a mixture of 79% hydrogen and 21% oxygen, you could breath just fine while not worrying about any explosions. Besides, there are many microbes that don't have to have oxygen to survive at all.

(3) And this leads up to a question. Why is our atmosphere 78 percent nitrogen and 21 percent oxygen ? Because of the precise size of the earth that allows the explosive light gas hydrogen to properly escape, and the inert gas of nitrogen being the major portion of our atmosphere in conjunction with oxygen, what assessment can be obtained ? That this was accidental, that it just happened by chance ?

As explained before, not all mixes of hydrogen are explosive.

 

[Robert.Evans]

That's right about time you got something right.


mythology cannot intervene

Where is your proof that God is myth, or is that just your belief? Presumably then luck did it all.

In the beginning there was luck.
And luck said do stuff and stuff happened.
And randomness with chance made things happen.
And Chaos came into being.
And luck said, I haven't got a clue what I am doing.
And there was dullness.
But order was hidden within, and ordered all things into being.
Luck now was clothed with conceit and would not admit that order had anything to do with it.
So luck said, let there be darkness, and there was darkness.
And luck saw that it was good for its own egotistical self.
And everyone was very happy at how the ridiculous odds brought about life.
So they put their hands over their eyes, and walked about in their own self conceit.
By now, order had ordered so many things into being, luck did not even think of these things, but thought of its own self... stumbling through the darkness as it went.