There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

[abinormal]

The Theory of evolution is accepted as a fact but called a theory

Faith in God is accepted as a reality but it is called a faith.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

That last line is cool, always kind of liked that. I think it's great you have a "belief" to hold onto, I just don't like you trying to force-feed me, along with condescending remarks. Didn't you ever hear of "catching more people with honey", I know I've misquoted but you get my drift.

Funny, but just before I "lost" my faith there was a time of desperately thumping the bible and my "so-called" beliefs, at folks who obviously weren't "buying".

 

[outhouse]

The Theory of evolution is accepted as a fact but called a theory

Because scientific theories are collections of facts that stand up to any and all refutation by peers.

Observed facts are collected and reported on.

It is both fact and theory.

Faith in God is accepted as a reality but it is called a faith.

Yes people do follow ancient mythology, they often know little about.

Its called faith, unlike evolution who has mountains of evidence, your faith has none.

That's the definition of faith.

Imagination made real, but only in the minds of those who have it.

I just know somethings and what I don't know the Holy Ghost tells me.

You might want to get that checked out by a Dr.

 

[Serenity7855]

As far as I know, jesus did not waste time with people who weren't open to his teachings, of course he had only 3 years, I don't know how much time you have on your hands. Do you want to bring people to christ, or do you just have a need to be right in what you believe? That's a tough one to answer honestly, so you might want to think about it.

Do I want to bring people unto Christ. Not any more as I am getting to old to go through the intensity of preparing someone to receive the Holy Ghost. It is not easy and requires commitment. I am commanded to bring people unto Christ though, so I will sieze the opportunity if it presents itself. Do I have a desire to be always right, is that what you think. It is not me who is right, it is the perfect Plan of Salvation that is always right. I just mimic the plan, so please do not bestow that glory upon me, for the glory is all Gods.

 

[Serenity7855]

That last line is cool, always kind of liked that. I think it's great you have a "belief" to hold onto, I just don't like you trying to force-feed me, along with condescending remarks. Didn't you ever hear of "catching more people with honey", I know I've misquoted but you get my drift.

Funny, but just before I "lost" my faith there was a time of desperately thumping the bible and my "so-called" beliefs, at folks who obviously weren't "buying".

Oh, I am not force feeding anyone, please believe me, force feeding is Satan's tool, and it was his plan. I will say what I have to say, you can then decide if I am wrong or right, I will not mind, either way, the choice is yours. Time is getting short and the day of reckoning is at hand. Satan is the God of this world and he is getting stronger. Too strong for just anyone to do battle with him. If you do not want to hear the word of God, nobody is going to force you. There are too many souls that need, and want, to be saved before Armegeddon. There is little time left to convert the atheists, the fence sitters in the war in heaven. It is right that you should choose God or choose nothing.

 

[outhouse]

it is the perfect Plan of Salvation that is always right

.

Fundamentalism to the point of fanaticism is never right.

 

[abinormal]

Do I want to bring people unto Christ. Not any more as I am getting to old to go through the intensity of preparing someone to receive the Holy Ghost. It is not easy and requires commitment. I am commanded to bring people unto Christ though, so I will sieze the opportunity if it presents itself. Do I have a desire to be always right, is that what you think. It is not me who is right, it is the perfect Plan of Salvation that is always right. I just mimic the plan, so please do not bestow that glory upon me, for the glory is all Gods.

Well, I feel there is a lot of "serenity7855" in your writings, if it were the holy spirit of the bible, I would see much more "of the bible" in your stuff. Preparing someone to receive the holy spirit was never hard for the christians I knew, all you needed to do was find a willing subject and offer them the salvation taught in the bible. Maybe you've made it too difficult, but intellectual minds can do that.

 

[fantome profane]

Sure, I can give you a list of scientist in the fields of genetic mutation, aeronautics, geology, molecular biology and microbiology and theoretical physics, who not only don't believe in evolution but teach the Bible in their spare time as volunteers.

Great, here is a challenge I have offered to many creationists, and have yet to have one meet it successfully.

Name three biological scientists who deny common descent. They must have a PHd in some form of biology, they must be working in some way in a biological field, and they must be alive, and of course they must reject common descent.

Don't give me a list of a hundred names that includes mathematicians and dentists, I only want three names of biologists. Don't give me a list of people who have been dead for centuries. And don't give me names of people you just assume deny common descent because they are Christian. Give me three names, give their credentials and show that they deny common descent.

Looking forward to your response.

 

[ScuzManiac]

I can show you where Jesus Christ's said that his church will be where two or three are gathered in his name there will He be also. He walked the earth he did not preach from an alter in the usual regalia designed by man. If you think that the teachings of Man, in a gold filled chapel, with insense and strangely clad attire, then we will have to disagree. I am a Christian because I received personal revelation testifying to my very being that God lives and that we are here to be tried and tested in the flesh. I needed that evidence before I would put one foot into the baptismal font. I do not believe anything that I am told without evidence.

I cut out some of your original message just to touch base on a few things you said.

For starters, you said you can SHOW me where Jesus Christ said yadda yadda.

The thing is, you actually can't. You can only show me what someone else wrote. There's no proof whatsoever that he said that or anything else. None.

Also, out of curiosity, what was that revelation you received?

Because that doesn't count as evidence.

The definition of evidence is "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

You may be able to prove it to yourself but you can't prove it to anyone else.

Therefore, it isn't evidence. The brain (since you mentioned brain washing later on in your message) is like a computer. It can be programmed.

I'm willing to bet that because you believe, you could potentially see God and "see the light" during a near death experience because you've heard the word of God and believe. I'd also be willing to bet that an isolated tribe in the jungle that HAS NOT heard of God will NEVER see the light or see God during a near death experience. Any explanation other than "they don't believe?" They simply don't know (their brain hasn't been programmed with that information).

Finally, the story I told you wasn't meaningless. It was just to validate my claim that I've been around Christianity more than most people including Christians. Therefore, I can attest to the fact that MOST people learn and believe at an early age without evidence.

Is it any coincidence that around 70% of people that attended church regularly as a child that go on to attend universities (higher education) end up leaving the church/faith?

I respect your reply, and believe it to be true, as it was my experience. I lost my faith, I say it that way because it's the easiest and best way to describe it. I had faith for 28 years, I was a born-again believer, or that is what I believed Then, I started reading the bible, word for word, for myself. Before that I only listened to what others taught me.

I honestly can't tell you, or explain the experience, but I know many christians, maybe all, would say that god took his holy spirit from me. That is what I read about in the bible, and was also taught that could happen. I simply feel indifference to the bible, jesus, god now. I don't feel anything, not anger, maybe surprise if I think about how involved I was. How much I believed, it was my life. Sorry to wander off topic.

Again, I just wanted you to know I liked what you had to say, and how you said it. It was because of christians like you that I first came around to it, it sure wasn't because of self-righteous know-it-alls that didn't show me anything I ever wanted to be like. Denise

I'm glad you liked it but...

I'm actually not a Christian. I used to be open to it (as a child) but was always a skeptic.

Interesting story though!

:clap

 

[abinormal]

I cut out some of your original message just to touch base on a few things you said.

For starters, you said you can SHOW me where Jesus Christ said yadda yadda.

The thing is, you actually can't. You can only show me what someone else wrote. There's no proof whatsoever that he said that or anything else. None.

Also, out of curiosity, what was that revelation you received?

Because that doesn't count as evidence.

The definition of evidence is "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

You may be able to prove it to yourself but you can't prove it to anyone else.

Therefore, it isn't evidence. The brain (since you mentioned brain washing later on in your message) is like a computer. It can be programmed.

I'm willing to bet that because you believe, you could potentially see God and "see the light" during a near death experience because you've heard the word of God and believe. I'd also be willing to bet that an isolated tribe in the jungle that HAS NOT heard of God will NEVER see the light or see God during a near death experience. Any explanation other than "they don't believe?" They simply don't know (their brain hasn't been programmed with that information).

Finally, the story I told you wasn't meaningless. It was just to validate my claim that I've been around Christianity more than most people including Christians. Therefore, I can attest to the fact that MOST people learn and believe at an early age without evidence.

Is it any coincidence that around 70% of people that attended church regularly as a child that go on to attend universities (higher education) end up leaving the church/faith?




I'm glad you liked it but...

I'm actually not a Christian. I used to be open to it (as a child) but was always a skeptic.

Interesting story though!

:clap

I understand you aren't a believer in christianity now, and I guess you listened to the info but didn't buy in. It's just that I am attracted to kindness, and honesty, people that speak from their hearts. That's why I like reading your writings. Plus I can see you have a good understanding of christianity imo, and I just wanted to add that, Denise

 

[Serenity7855]

I cut out some of your original message just to touch base on a few things you said.

For starters, you said you can SHOW me where Jesus Christ said yadda yadda.

The thing is, you actually can't. You can only show me what someone else wrote. There's no proof whatsoever that he said that or anything else. None.

Well, that maybe true for you, however, you do not look through the same eyes as me. Yes I can only show you what men have written but I know that God compiled it because his spirit to me He did. Whether you believe me or not his your choice.

Also, out of curiosity, what was that revelation you received?

Some things are just too sacred to be kicked and tossed around a religious forum.

Because that doesn't count as evidence.

It does to me.

The definition of evidence is "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

You may be able to prove it to yourself but you can't prove it to anyone else.

Why would I want to. I am responsible for my own salvation as you are for yours. I cannot give you what I have, I can only tell you how to get it.

Therefore, it isn't evidence. The brain (since you mentioned brain washing later on in your message) is like a computer. It can be programmed.

Only if you let it. I am a realist. I do not let anybody dupe me.

I'm willing to bet that because you believe, you could potentially see God and "see the light" during a near death experience because you've heard the word of God and believe.

Well, if that were to happen I hope that it is not because of brainwashing as I do not believe in near death experiences, so wouldn't that be evidence for it instead of against it.

I'd also be willing to bet that an isolated tribe in the jungle that HAS NOT heard of God will NEVER see the light or see God during a near death experience. Any explanation other than "they don't believe?" They simply don't know (their brain hasn't been programmed with that information).

You have a bit of a thing about this isolated tribe stuff, don't you? Of course you could not become a Christian if you have never experience Christianity. But Jesus has said that every knee shall bow and every mouth shall confess that Jesus is the Christ. Whether it be in this world or the world to come, everyone will be given the opportunity to accept or reject the Plan of Salvation. God is a fair and just God. It would naturally not be any other way. As a one time Christian, it is that which you should hold on to and not some dreamt up idea that only a few of us will have the opportunity to know God.

A betting man would never make that bet because he would have no idea what the odds are. I would put a bet on it though. NDEs should not disseminate between cultures. Muslims have had NDEs that relate to Christians NDEs.

Finally, the story I told you wasn't meaningless. It was just to validate my claim that I've been around Christianity more than most people including Christians. Therefore, I can attest to the fact that MOST people learn and believe at an early age without evidence.

I didn't say that the story was meaningless, I was saying that the concept was meaningless. Familiarity with Christianity does not make you a Christian. Yes the probably do, however, there is a point in our lives when we stop listening to mum and dad, or should do, and we start to ask our own questions and form our own opinions. It is then when we become converted by the spirit. Prior to that we live on other people's testimonies.

Is it any coincidence that around 70% of people that attended church regularly as a child that go on to attend universities (higher education) end up leaving the church/faith?

Not at all. It is expected to happen when hormones change and attitudes develop into independence. I know of many cases where it has happened, however, I cannot think of a case where they did not come back to the flock of the Lamb.

 

[Serenity7855]

Well, I feel there is a lot of "serenity7855" in your writings, if it were the holy spirit of the bible, I would see much more "of the bible" in your stuff. Preparing someone to receive the holy spirit was never hard for the christians I knew, all you needed to do was find a willing subject and offer them the salvation taught in the bible. Maybe you've made it too difficult, but intellectual minds can do that.

There could be much more, believe me. I have used sufficient scriptural references her. Any more and the local clan of atheists would complain.

Preparing someone to receive the actual Holy Ghost is difficult as you have to remove all of the preconceived ideas of what men thing it is and replace it with what it actually is. Satan controls many of our religions where false doctrines are taught to unsuspecting Christians. We are told that all sorts of emotions are as a result of the Holy Ghost instead of the still small subtle voice that whispers to your soul. It is in tuning ones senses to receive communications from divinity. That is where an intellectual mind is needed. To feel his power and understand the concepts in which he speaks. As I said, Jesus said that only a handful of His elect will recognise the masters voice, and then there will be one fold and one Shepherd. Did you ever really feel the Holy Ghost testifying to your soul. I genuinely hope not, as if you did, and now you reject him, you will become a son of perdition and will be cast into outer darkness, as Satan and his followers will. All in scripture, none of my words. If you were converted by the Holy Ghost you would still be a Christian right now. Once you have been truly converted you can never go back, even if you wanted to. It is impossible.

 

[abinormal]

Of course you could not become a Christian if you have never experience Christianity.

Your god is pretty small if it can't bring someone into the fold anytime it wants. Comon, Paul was struttin down a road and was zapped by god, according to the bible, that can't happen today though right.

 

[Serenity7855]

Your god is pretty small if it can't bring someone into the fold anytime it wants. Comon, Paul was struttin down a road and was zapped by god, according to the bible, that can't happen today though right.

I dare say it could if the person concerned was wanted as an apostle. You sound like a born again. They dupe people into believing that all you have to do is confess that Jesus is the Christ and you have a place in heaven. Exactly what Satan wants you to believe because it is doctrinally incorrect. Some people fall for the obvious con but fail to accept what is blatantly true. Maybe it is a cop out of doing what is really needed. Do you really think that such a prize would come that easy. Did the church you belonged to believe in the trinity?

 

[abinormal]

I dare say it could if the person concerned was wanted as an apostle. You sound like a born again. They dupe people into believing that all you have to do is confess that Jesus is the Christ and you have a place in heaven. Exactly what Satan wants you to believe because it is doctrinally incorrect. Some people fall for the obvious con but fail to accept what is blatantly true. Maybe it is a cop out of doing what is really needed. Do you really think that such a price would come that easy. Did the church you belonged to believe in the trinity?

Ah yes, the "chosen" few that "earn their salvation".

 

[Serenity7855]

Ah yes, the "chosen" few that "earn their salvation".

Is there any other way, and why have you omitted to answer my questions and rebuttal

 

[abinormal]

Is there any other way, and why have you omitted to answer my questions and rebuttal

Excuse me but I don't have to buy into your stuff, to me your stuff is ridiculous. It's kind of fun to have something to do here don't you think? I mean you have to be at least as bored and lonely for company as I am. Why else would either of us continue with this silly, no win, discussion?

 

[abinormal]

Oh wow, exit stage right!! I didn't even realize this was a debate thread, sorry. I'm not into debating what I deem foolishness. Bye.

 

[Mycroft]

216 pages. Still no proof.

 

[joelr]

If I could take any reasonable man, from off the street, who was totally impartial and without mindless bigotry, void of the brain washing techniques of Atheists and open minded enough to learn, I could satisfy his mind, using the scientific knowledge that we currently have, that it is more likely for their to be a God, then not. Even with the little knowledge that I have of the universe we live on a knife edge in, I could demonstrate that a superior force caused the universe to come into existence. Indeed, Kalam's cosmological argument is sufficient to do that on its own, that is, without mentioning the singularity, the Big Bang, rapid expansion, anthropic principle, dark matter and energy, fine tuning, etc etc etc... So why is it that Atheists have such leverage in our society to preach their counterfeit arguments.

If a man wants to know the truth, without a need to subscribe to any groups who all think the same and who all point the same condescending fingure, as there is safety in numbers, then the truth is in the stars for all to see. Why do men need to be told what to believe instead of finding out for themselves by looking at our world that simply could not exist without divinity.

Look at the vast gap between the intelligence of Man and that of our closest counterpart in the animal Kingdom to see how much more intelligent we are to them. Have we evolved that much faster then they have, and if we have, then why have we? Something so fundamentally obvious, both scientifically, cosmological and supernaturally has to have a form of intelligence behind it. It is so obviously God who created the universe and set our planet up for habitation. The "by chance" idea is hugely more improbable then a supernatural being is, yet we readily believe the former. Why? How do atheists reconcile this overwhelming cosmological and intellectual evidence. How is it possible to categorically claim that God does not exist.

Even if you convinced someone it might be possible, you're never going to convince them that any particular mythology is the actual word of god.

 

[Serenity7855]

Even if you convinced someone it might be possible, you're never going to convince them that any particular mythology is the actual word of god.

No, that is very true. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. There has to be a point where there is a desire to go deeper. It is at that point that you must allow the reasonable man to reason it out for himself.