There is no argument to be used against a Messenger

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't see Jesus ever claiming he's a messenger.

That's OK. I see Jesus made it clear that he came to give a Message from God.

Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.”John 7:16

Verses such as this.

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all..1 John 1:5

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ..Romans 10:17

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You telling us these claims is essentially hearsay. We don't have any actual Messengers to impress us, just ordinary, flawed mortals like yourself telling us they're real. And we are not convinced you are correct.

I see this OP is not suited to your chosen frames of references. It may be best for you to consider this.

I see that all the Messengers have faced people with frames of references such as what you offered. So that is a oneness they also share.

It seems the frame of reference you offers, is still a very small minority.

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

A man human as a father is stated to be with God in human genesis as a father human. By gods types of earth only conditions our God.

The baby in genesis was bodily missing in cell health dna attack by Egyptian technology. Mayans used it. Veda indian used it. Attacked.

So heavens cooling is just heavens evolution. Its not science it's evolution cooling over a timed period. By ice remassing re emerging cold cooling gases.

A teaching. The saviour of God ice.

Conscious adult man states my life was saved as a baby. By a sent caused event. My own returned human father's spirit living oxygen microbe generated life. Heavens body remassed replaced.

Teaching said coat of colours burnt gases was not his human father.

Medical advice why evolution cooling regained natural life's body human plus healthy non mutated babies.

The teaching said hence we are all only living now healthy as evolution supported my bodily returned cell blood health.

It was being removed agsin....technological caused life attacked again. To cause the story to be correlated written after the event.

Aligned with old science testimony life sacrificed.

As science changed earths history earths gas came from rock volcanic.

They were using sun impregnated nuclear fusion Sion. An attack in fission of gods natural earth Rock gases.

Heavens were not alight and straight out of volcano rocks. Earths gases.

Heavens gases of rock already had been sacrificed by the sun. You doubled the cause. Fission.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't follow messengers. My faith has a history, but that's it, for me.

But let's try this...

I make the argument that Bahaullah was a man on Earth, and probably not of some really powerful God.

And my chosen deity is the Goddess with my faith.

So let's turn this around, then. "The Goddess was a man on this Earth and not of some really powerful God."

Well to me, you made your own God, that means you can take on the fruit challenge.

As, by the fruits we will know them.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sometimes I think the best way of interpreting those verses is not to say "This applies to other people", and weaponizing it, but to read it and say, "This applies to anyone it addresses, including myself if I somehow fall astray."

Yet I will never claim to be a Prophet, would you?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The problem with going by billions of followers, and saying that it shows Jesus was correct, is that the argument can be used against Bahaullah and others due to the number of followers the Baha'i faith has so far produced. Might even be able to point to that saying "Christianity is more correct".

The dawn of a New day cannot be compared to a full day.

It is only 178 years since the Message started.

Christianity took 300 years to be embraced, the Baha'i Faith is already Global and will grow experientially when people realise it is what they wait for.

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

If humans argue spirit human history why we exist versus god dust reaction....by man's machine only.

Then we win.

As sun to earth attack gave earth sin holes. Sink holes tunnel system. Dust being saved as the left over mass of the attacked seams....layers.

We aren't gods mass.

We are spirit.

Science says I know eternal hell.

So as the sun mass is still eternal hell and not evolution. Again you're answer proven wrong.

As a living humans theory hadn't owned why my life existed.

So the messenger theme is our teaching. Not about theism occult reactions. Of just men.

The eternal instant memory was just before father mother became human. So it's always been a record asides from their body.

I've had it notified bodily and emotionally. It changed me to a physical position of non explanation. I cried when the moment stopped.

Once only. Taught only.

Therefore I dont find father's human explanation of the type of creator that owned why we existed to be wrong.

I don't own it ...control it but I trust in its history. Natural advice. Not human theories.

Science thinks upon any subject...then wants it ...wants to own it ...then to abuse it by converting it. Doesn't sound like any circumstance I'm discussing.

So you argue as you think by rich man I own most states of earth as rich men...combined conscious agreed by greed. Then if I can't own it...it's not real.

Is your behaviour only.

I was taught after dinosaurs died in huge earth reactive mass attack. Snap freeze ice owned earth.

It eventually unfroze by heated space gas.

We know observe now why ice melts.

When ice melts plant life ground rooted springs forth. We see it.

We came direct each spirit body type owned direct out of the eternal. Not hell.

The messenger human says in my experience I get man human reminded who I really was by our father. A very spiritual true type of human life health and conscious speech. Very loving.

 

[rational experiences]

The dawn of a New day cannot be compared to a full day.

It is only 178 years since the Message started.

Christianity took 300 years to be embraced, the Baha'i Faith is already Global and will grow experientially when people realise it is what they wait for.

Regards Tony

Father's life is lived by every human man for as long as man has human lived.

The new legal God oath based on Jesus testimonial promised a non nuclear science practice future.

To inherit 2012 void vacuum moment and Ice remassing saviour body returned.

For natural mind body conscious balances to be returned. Biology natural.

Humans innate natural loving mutual spirituality to live as one United family of humanity.

Natural.

Natural first. Family.

To have governing by our family elder...tribal status. Of all humans as a world governing for all.

Meaning that family would be allowed to live in any lands country. Sharing.

I truly don't believe that type of mutual understanding is anywhere near emerging.

Nuclear climate was accepted instead. World governing is based on one nations takeover.

Therefore as the falling star was going to return again. Russia's proof. The mind update not achieved.

So not only do you not be given higher man's advice it's being lost.

Therefore as organisation was man made. Leadership is two. Mutual elder man woman equal. Returned status.

Was new inheritance plus conscious accepted evolution.

No longer man organised as science controlled. Rich man by technology trade.

Part of the message no longer realised. Life was meant to be governed for environmental survival and sharing mutually.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A man human as a father is stated to be with God in human genesis as a father human. By gods types of earth only conditions our God.

The baby in genesis was bodily missing in cell health dna attack by Egyptian technology. Mayans used it. Veda indian used it. Attacked.

So heavens cooling is just heavens evolution. Its not science it's evolution cooling over a timed period. By ice remassing re emerging cold cooling gases.

A teaching. The saviour of God ice.

Conscious adult man states my life was saved as a baby. By a sent caused event. My own returned human father's spirit living oxygen microbe generated life. Heavens body remassed replaced.

Teaching said coat of colours burnt gases was not his human father.

Medical advice why evolution cooling regained natural life's body human plus healthy non mutated babies.

The teaching said hence we are all only living now healthy as evolution supported my bodily returned cell blood health.

It was being removed agsin....technological caused life attacked again. To cause the story to be correlated written after the event.

Aligned with old science testimony life sacrificed.

As science changed earths history earths gas came from rock volcanic.

They were using sun impregnated nuclear fusion Sion. An attack in fission of gods natural earth Rock gases.

Heavens were not alight and straight out of volcano rocks. Earths gases.

Heavens gases of rock already had been sacrificed by the sun. You doubled the cause. Fission.

If humans argue spirit human history why we exist versus god dust reaction....by man's machine only.

Then we win.

As sun to earth attack gave earth sin holes. Sink holes tunnel system. Dust being saved as the left over mass of the attacked seams....layers.

We aren't gods mass.

We are spirit.

Science says I know eternal hell.

So as the sun mass is still eternal hell and not evolution. Again you're answer proven wrong.

As a living humans theory hadn't owned why my life existed.

So the messenger theme is our teaching. Not about theism occult reactions. Of just men.

The eternal instant memory was just before father mother became human. So it's always been a record asides from their body.

I've had it notified bodily and emotionally. It changed me to a physical position of non explanation. I cried when the moment stopped.

Once only. Taught only.

Therefore I dont find father's human explanation of the type of creator that owned why we existed to be wrong.

I don't own it ...control it but I trust in its history. Natural advice. Not human theories.

Science thinks upon any subject...then wants it ...wants to own it ...then to abuse it by converting it. Doesn't sound like any circumstance I'm discussing.

So you argue as you think by rich man I own most states of earth as rich men...combined conscious agreed by greed. Then if I can't own it...it's not real.

Is your behaviour only.

I was taught after dinosaurs died in huge earth reactive mass attack. Snap freeze ice owned earth.

It eventually unfroze by heated space gas.

We know observe now why ice melts.

When ice melts plant life ground rooted springs forth. We see it.

We came direct each spirit body type owned direct out of the eternal. Not hell.

The messenger human says in my experience I get man human reminded who I really was by our father. A very spiritual true type of human life health and conscious speech. Very loving.

Father's life is lived by every human man for as long as man has human lived.

The new legal God oath based on Jesus testimonial promised a non nuclear science practice future.

To inherit 2012 void vacuum moment and Ice remassing saviour body returned.

For natural mind body conscious balances to be returned. Biology natural.

Humans innate natural loving mutual spirituality to live as one United family of humanity.

Natural.

Natural first. Family.

To have governing by our family elder...tribal status. Of all humans as a world governing for all.

Meaning that family would be allowed to live in any lands country. Sharing.

I truly don't believe that type of mutual understanding is anywhere near emerging.

Nuclear climate was accepted instead. World governing is based on one nations takeover.

Therefore as the falling star was going to return again. Russia's proof. The mind update not achieved.

So not only do you not be given higher man's advice it's being lost.

Therefore as organisation was man made. Leadership is two. Mutual elder man woman equal. Returned status.

Was new inheritance plus conscious accepted evolution.

No longer man organised as science controlled. Rich man by technology trade.

Part of the message no longer realised. Life was meant to be governed for environmental survival and sharing mutually.

Sorry, but I can not understand what you are offering. But I wish you all the best and much happiness.

Regards Tony

 

[QuestioningMind]

Any argument a person of faith chooses to dissprove a True Messenger of God, is just as valid against their chosen Messenger.

So is it not then logical that we could then prove the Messengers by comparing the Attibutes?

Then in that process, those that are false, will start to become obvious?

Matthew 7:15-20
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Regards Tony

Personally any 'god being' that requires a third party to deliver it's all-important messages doesn't seem like a very consequential 'god being' to me. Everyone knows that hearsay evidence is the least reliable evidence there is. It's impossible to verify.

 

[blü 2]

Any argument a person of faith chooses to dissprove a True Messenger of God, is just as valid against their chosen Messenger.

So is it not then logical that we could then prove the Messengers by comparing the Attibutes?

Then in that process, those that are false, will start to become obvious?

Matthew 7:15-20
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Regards Tony

Though you're talking about messengers, words, my first thought is that this in the end must value deeds over words.

I've never understood the morality of 'Justification by faith alone', for example.

But I've always understood the line from a desk calendar long ago, 'When all is said and done, more will be said than done.'

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Personally any 'god being' that requires a third party to deliver it's all-important messages doesn't seem like a very consequential 'god being' to me. Everyone knows that hearsay evidence is the least reliable evidence there is. It's impossible to verify.

Unless they are created by God for that very task.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Though you're talking about messengers, words, my first thought is that this in the end must value deeds over words

That is precisely how we can know a Messenger, by their fruits. The Message contains the fruits of the Messenger.

Regards Tony

 

[Twilight Hue]

That is because it is indeed a New Message, it is explained in previous messages that it is brought to create a New Heaven and a New Earth, it is a Message to makes all things new.

Your observation is correct.

Regards Tony

Dosent help if you see that person as one just blowing out hot air for one reason or another.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Dosent help if you see that person as one just blowing out hot air for one reason or another.

Luckily I do not see it that way.

You have your choice.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

Any argument a person of faith chooses to dissprove a True Messenger of God, is just as valid against their chosen Messenger.

So is it not then logical that we could then prove the Messengers by comparing the Attibutes?

Then in that process, those that are false, will start to become obvious?

Matthew 7:15-20
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Regards Tony

So you believe Mirza Gulam, Joseph Smith, Ramana, Meher, and everyone else right? That's your standard?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Unless they are created by God for that very task.

Regards Tony

I'm assuming in this scenario that they are. I'm just saying that this god being creating messengers to perform the task of spreading this god being's message indicates a very limited and ineffectual god being. Hearsay evidence, even if presented by messengers created to perform the task of repeating this message, are still simply repeating hearsay, which I would assume any god-being worthy of the title would know is the least reliable evidence this god being could present.

If this message is important and if this god being genuinely has a desire for human beings to receive it then I can only conclude that this god being has severely limited abilities, lacks common sense, or both.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you believe Mirza Gulam, Joseph Smith, Ramana, Meher, and everyone else right? That's your standard?

No, that is an incorrect assumption.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If this message is important and if this god being genuinely has a desire for human beings to receive it then I can only conclude that this god being has severely limited abilities, lacks common sense, or both.

Or some choose to remain oblivious to their own potential.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

No, that is an incorrect assumption.

Regards Tony

Why? Same standard. Or did you make a mistake in your OP?