There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Sheldon]

What is the mumbo jumbo exactly?

It's in the dictionary. Did you never wonder why Christians outside the church were banned from reading the bible for centuries? Or why the rituals were performed in Latin in front of people who didn't speak it? The bible wasn't even created until the third century at the first council of Nicaea. The Church discouraged the populace from reading the Bible on their own -- a policy that intensified through the Middle Ages and later, with the addition of a prohibition forbidding translation of the Bible into native languages.

 

[Sheldon]

You can believe whatever you want to, when talking about what the Bible actually says and teaches is a different matter altogether. If you say that red apple is blue and want to believe that then fine with me, I’m still going to tell you it’s red.

Atheists wouldn't care what subjective views different Christians hold on the "colour of their apple" to use your analogy, they just don't believe your apple is magic or derived from magic. Your problem is you're claiming the bible is a reliable guide on what "colour your magic apples is" again to use your analogy, but there are 45k varyingly different opinions on that globally, which does not suggest it is reliable at all, and your no true Scotsman fallacies denying anyone who disagrees with your version are true Christians is poor reasoning, as it is irrational by definition.

 

[ElishaElijah]

It's in the dictionary. Did you never wonder why Christians outside the church were banned from reading the bible for centuries? Or why the rituals were performed in Latin in front of people who didn't speak it? The bible wasn't even created until the third century at the first council of Nicaea. The Church discouraged the populace from reading the Bible on their own -- a policy that intensified through the Middle Ages and later, with the addition of a prohibition forbidding translation of the Bible into native languages.

Banned probably so the false teachers could introduce false teaching like purgatory to scare people and get more money out of them.

 

[Sheldon]

You are free to not reply but the Bible is the authority and the Church is the pillar and support of the Truth.

The bible has produced 45k varyingly different sects and denominations, and there are different churches, so this is just another argument from assertions fallacy.

Since I am part of the Church, Body of Believers I do have that authority to rightly explain and teach the Bible.

Appeal to authority fallacy. No one in or outside of the Christian religions is obliged to believe your claim.

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

I don't believe you, and a cursory read of it is enough to suggest you're very wrong.

If you aren’t part of the Church then you don’t have any say in the matter.

Wrong again, everyone is free to evaluate its credence, and you don't get to dictate that to anyone, those days thankfully are long gone. This is also a public debate forum.

You can feel free in your community of belief to talk of that all you want to.

Anyone can feel free to comment right here, since that is what this forum us for, debating religions.

 

[Sheldon]

You’re off target again and not talking about any of that but the question is “What does the Bible actually say and teach?

What a surprise hand waving evasion, and blind repetition. Priceless.

 

[Sheldon]

We are talking different things so you’re not hearing me, take it easy.

You asked for objective evidence that Dr Ehrman or any atheist was once a Christian, I duly demonstrated it, and you responded with hand waving, and attempted to move the goal posts.

 

[Sheldon]

Banned probably so the false teachers could introduce false teaching like purgatory to scare people and get more money out of them.

Exactly, and it still goes on, because most believers seem either woefully ignorant of the bible and it's origins, or it contains sufficiently contradictory or vague ideas it has resulted in 45k varyingly different sects and denominations.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Exactly, and it still goes on, because most believers seem either woefully ignorant of the bible and it's origins, or it contains sufficiently contradictory or vague ideas it has resulted in 45k varyingly different sects and denominations.

This goes on but not because of your reasons but
because of being ignorant of the clear teaching of Scripture, not studying the Bible for themselves, rightly dividing the Word of God, following every wind of doctrine. That’s how there are many divisions and false teaching going around.
You don’t even know what the Bible teaches and still stuck on your talking points.

 

[ElishaElijah]

it contains sufficiently contradictory or vague ideas it has resulted in 45k varyingly different sects and denominations.

What are those vague ideas?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I think that’s all you know to say when you can’t answer a question. You assume everyone who says they were a Christian were at some point but you have no idea what a Christian is, neither do those people. You don’t know so instead of finding out you call fallacy and you still don’t know.

Back when I was a Christian, I was taught that only God knows what is in each of our hearts. So who are you to say who is a Christian and who isn't? That's between each individual and God.

Us non-believers can only go by what people tell us. So if someone says they are a Christian (or Jewish, or Muslim or Hindu, or etc,), we take their word for it. You seem to think you're able to see into peoples' hearts and determine for them who is or isn't a Christian, but unless you're God, you've got no basis to do so.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I've been baptised, I was 14, imaginary afterlife torture chambers are no more scary, just because I was too young to to know any better and fight back.

This kind of biblical rationale is hardly that surprising, a lot of it is based on fear and phycological bullying.

I was baptized when I was a baby. So I guess I'm a Christian too.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The Church is the Whole Body of Christ worldwide and from the beginning with Jesus Christ as the Head. Are you saying you are not part of this Body of believers?
This is my Church and what I mean when I say The Church.

Yeah, but you don't speak for all believers. You speak as you and I speak as me. We in Europe had a 30 years long war over that and we found a compromise. We allow for individual variations in beliefs.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I was baptized when I was a baby. So I guess I'm a Christian too.

I still pay my voluntary Church taxes. Yet I am still an atheist and but also a culture Christian. Further I will defend anyone's individual faith as individual. As for the social and public that is something else, but that is so for most of us.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yeah, but you don't speak for all believers. You speak as you and I speak as me. We in Europe had a 30 years long war over that and we found a compromise. We allow for individual variations in beliefs.

There are variations and a lot of freedom in many areas of life for example, eating, drinking, what you wear, when we pray, how we pray, fasting etc.
But on some matters of faith there is no compromising like the authority of Scripture and the foundations of our faith:
“Therefore, let us leave the elementary teaching about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, faith in God, teaching about ritual washings, laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1-2‬ ‭CSB‬‬

 

[ElishaElijah]

Back when I was a Christian, I was taught that only God knows what is in each of our hearts. So who are you to say who is a Christian and who isn't? That's between each individual and God.

Us non-believers can only go by what people tell us. So if someone says they are a Christian (or Jewish, or Muslim or Hindu, or etc,), we take their word for it. You seem to think you're able to see into peoples' hearts and determine for them who is or isn't a Christian, but unless you're God, you've got no basis to do so.

When someone reveals what in their heart, they just told me. I am judging just like you are, you are taking their word but don’t know what it means to be a Christian.
If you say you were a Christian you had to believe that God created everything according to Genesis, believed Jesus died for your sins and according to that faith you would’ve received eternal life through Jesus Christ have been born again of the Holy Spirit, you would’ve been changed and a new person, the old gone the new creation in Christ, then willingly enter the waters of baptism where you are buried with Christ in His death and raised a new person just like Jesus Christ was raised from the dead. You die to yourself and live for Jesus Christ.
That is who a Christian is.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There are variations and a lot of freedom in many areas of life for example, eating, drinking, what you wear, when we pray, how we pray, fasting etc.
But on some matters of faith there is no compromising like the authority of Scripture and the foundations of our faith:
“Therefore, let us leave the elementary teaching about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, faith in God, teaching about ritual washings, laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1-2‬ ‭CSB‬‬

Yeah, I understand that differently.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yeah, I understand that differently.

How do you understand that?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How do you understand that?

How to do the works in the end, what it means to do "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" in practice and who judges souls in the end.

 

[ElishaElijah]

How to do the works in the end, what it means to do "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" in practice and who judges souls in the end.

That’s it?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That’s it?

Yes, I am progressive in that I view what it means to love in this sense has evolved over time and that is the core. If you love other humans, you live and do the work.