There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[ElishaElijah]

So you said, but you can't explain the objective difference between a deity not answering a prayer, and there being no deity to answer any prayer.

#3991 is my answer and that’s it for that, take it any way you want to and moving along.

 

[Sheldon]

#3991 is my answer and that’s it for that, take it any way you want to and moving along.

It doesn't answer the question at all, all you have done is repeat your earlier claim.

Did you not understand that God says yes to
A lot of prayers and requests? Yet the point is that even no is an answered prayer. I’m glad He didn’t give me everything I asked for, but when I waited I received something better instead.

No one asked why you think "says yes to a lot of prayers and requests" or why you claim he didn't give you everything you asked for.

You were asked: What is the objective difference between a deity not answering a prayer, and there being no deity to answer any prayer?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You asked your question and it’s incomplete so either clarify or that’s it, either way good for me

It was as complete as it needed to be. Did I use that weak excuse when I answered yours.

Oh look! Another duck!!

 

[samtonga43]

It doesn't answer the question at all, all you have done is repeat your earlier claim.



No one asked why you think "says yes to a lot of prayers and requests" or why you claim he didn't give you everything you asked for.

You were asked: What is the objective difference between a deity not answering a prayer, and there being no deity to answer any prayer?

Maybe it's like someone who knows you really well, loves you a lot and knows what is best for you, not giving you something which will be against your best interests. Just a thought...

 

[Sheldon]

Maybe it's like someone who knows you really well, loves you a lot and knows what is best for you, not giving you something which will be against your best interests. Just a thought...

Well that doesn't address the question at all?

The question asked for an objective difference between a prayer not being answered by deity, and no deity existing to answer it. Not why anyone subjectively thinks a deity may or may not answer prayers.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You were asked: What is the objective difference between a deity not answering a prayer, and there being no deity to answer any prayer?

Uh, who cares?
And what’s the objective difference between having a Dad who said no to your request and you not having a Dad to say no to your request?

 

[F1fan]

Uh, who cares?

You do. You've invested a lot of your life and time in believing Christian concepts true, as you were told. Are you really indifferent to whether a God exists or not?

And what’s the objective difference between having a Dad who said no to your request and you not having a Dad to say no to your request?

Well, dads actually exist. When dads engage with their kids, the kids experience a real dad.

There are no gods known to exist.

 

[ElishaElijah]

There are no gods known to exist.

Really? You’re omniscient now to be able to say that? What’s the percentage of all there is to know about the Universe do you actually know?
I know very little but what I do know is that God delivered me, gave me Eternal Life, speaks to me, has given me His Spirit as a guarantee of this promise. All this is through Jesus Christ.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Really? You’re omniscient now to be able to say that? What’s the percentage of all there is to know about the Universe do you actually know?
I know very little but what I do know is that God delivered me, gave me Eternal Life, speaks to me, has given me His Spirit as a guarantee of this promise. All this is through Jesus Christ.

No, you have repeatedly demonstrated that you only believe that. You have not been able to justify your beliefs at all. I will grant that you have a very strong belief, but beliefs are not knowledge. It looks even worse for you when the evidence is considered because the evidence out there says rather emphatically that your beliefs are wrong.

You also do not seem to understand what "known" means in the context that the person that your responded to used the word. It means that no one anywhere on the Earth has shown Gods to exist You haven't. Do you know of anyone that has?

 

[ElishaElijah]

No, you have repeatedly demonstrated that you only believe that. You have not been able to justify your beliefs at all. I will grant that you have a very strong belief, but beliefs are not knowledge. It looks even worse for you when the evidence is considered because the evidence out there says rather emphatically that your beliefs are wrong.

You also do not seem to understand what "known" means in the context that the person that your responded to used the word. It means that no one anywhere on the Earth has shown Gods to exist You haven't. Do you know of anyone that has?

Yeah millions of people including myself, probably start hanging out with different people.
Spoiler alert: not everyone is an atheist, many people are born again and know God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah millions of people including myself, probably stop hanging out with different people.
Spoiler alert: not everyone is an atheist, many people are born again and know God.

Sorry, but you keep misusing the word "know". If you knew God you could properly support your claims. You can't therefore you don't. You believe in God as well as billions of Christians. But believe is not proof. It is not even evidence.

 

[F1fan]

Really? You’re omniscient now to be able to say that?

No one has to be omniscient to realize there is no evidence that backs up the beliefs and claims of theists. The odd thing is why you theists believe at all in any gods. There's no evidence. There's no basis to decide that any of the thousands of gods exist.

If you disagree, provide facts that any gods exist.

What’s the percentage of all there is to know about the Universe do you actually know?

Science as a whole know a great deal. No evidence of gods have been found.

I know very little but what I do know is that God delivered me, gave me Eternal Life, speaks to me, has given me His Spirit as a guarantee of this promise. All this is through Jesus Christ.

How is this knowledge? Explain the facts of this, and the tests you conducted that demonstrated that a God exists outside of your imagination.

But first let me ask, did anyone tell you about these religious ideas when you were young, and before you were a believer?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Sorry, but you keep misusing the word "know". If you knew God you could properly support your claims. You can't therefore you don't. You believe in God as well as billions of Christians. But believe is not proof. It is not even evidence.

I know that your post is meant for ElishaElijah, but I'd like to comment about it, if that's OK with you. I can't honestly say that I know the gods and goddesses that I'm aware of as a Wiccan. I don't have solid proof of their existence, just as I never had concrete proof that the Christian God exists either. And while I can't prove these gods and goddesses exist, I still choose to believe because I believe in the supernatural and I have personal reasons for my beliefs. I wasn't taught to believe in these gods and goddesses as I had been taught to believe in the Christian God. I had been raised in the church and was indoctrinated to believe in God and that the Bible was inerrant and infallible and I should never doubt it or question it. To be honest, I thought I knew God quite well when I was a Christian because I was very devout in my faith. However, after I renounced Christianity, I began to investigate the Bible's veracity and came to the conclusion that many of the stories I read in it were likely adapted from some pagan religions that predated both Christianity and the Bible. I also acknowledged that the Bible has multiple contradictions in it and that I had ignored them all when I was a Christian.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know that your post is meant for ElishaElijah, but I'd like to comment about it, if that's OK with you. I can't honestly say that I know the gods and goddesses that I'm aware of as a Wiccan. I don't have solid proof of their existence, just as I never had tangible proof that the Christian God exists either. And while I can't prove these gods and goddesses exist, I still choose to believe because I believe in the supernatural and I have personal reasons for my beliefs. I wasn't taught to believe in these gods and goddesses as I had been taught to believe in the Christian God. I had been raised in the church and indoctrinated to believe in God and that the Bible was inerrant and infallible and I should never doubt it or question it. To be honest, I thought I knew God quite well when I was a Christian because I was very devout in my faith. However, after I renounced Christianity, I began to investigate the Bible's veracity and came to the conclusion that many of the stories I read in it were likely adapted from some pagan religions that predated both Christianity and the Bible. I also acknowledged that the Bible has multiple contradictions in it and that I had ignored them all when I was a Christian.

I have no problem when someone says that they have a belief. They may even be correct, but with the myriad possibilities that is probably not the case. The reason that I do not like it when people improperly claim to "know" is that they are often the worst of religious believers. Since they think that they "know" they have no qualms about enforcing their beliefs upon others.

Take abortion as an example. I can honestly say that I do not know when a human life becomes a person. So I will never tell a woman that she cannot have an abortion. There are too many Christians in this country that think that they do know, which is rather odd since their own Bible disagrees with them.

 

[PearlSeeker]

God speaks Spirit to Spirit, also confirms with
his Word or other believers. I will be reading the Bible and the verse will come alive, something I have read a bunch of times will speak to me for a certain situation and you just know, it’s a living word not just words on a page.

So you don't get any direct message in words. God is silent. No different than talking to the wind.

You have to read the Bible and listen to other people and this speaks to you because something reminds you of your situation. How do you know these are not just associations in your head?

 

[PearlSeeker]

And what’s the objective difference between having a Dad who said no to your request and you not having a Dad to say no to your request?

Actual Dad actually says no. You can hear the words.

If you just think Dad is somewhere near you (but actually he's not there) you can ask million times and every time you will hear no reply, not a word, no nothing.

 

[Sheldon]

Uh, who cares?
And what’s the objective difference between having a Dad who said no to your request and you not having a Dad to say no to your request?

The question is pertinent to you claim, that all prayers are answered, but sometimes the answer is no or wait.

So obviously that statement invites the question, what is the objective difference between a deity not answering a prayer, and there being no deity to answer any prayer?

 

[Sheldon]

Really? You’re omniscient now to be able to say that?

You don't need omniscience to state no deity are known, to exist. This is just your misunderstanding of what knowledge is. All anyone can ever demonstrate is subjective anecdotal claims to support the belief, same as you have done here.

For example you offered a subjective anecdotal claim that all prayers are answered, but that sometimes the answer is no or wait. Then when asked to demonstrate some objective difference between a deity nor answering a prayer, and no deity existing to answer it, you have failed to do so, because all you have is the subjective unevidenced assertion that prompted the question. You clearly don't see the selection bias inherent in the statement, which is flawed reasoning.

 

[joelr]

Look at this outline for prayer
“So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭11:2-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Prayer is a relationship with God our Father, many people believe prayer to be just going to God and asking for things but as you can see it’s much more than that.

As far as requests
“Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Paul prayed 3 times to be healed and God told him His grace was sufficient that His strength was made perfect in our weakness. Also, Paul was put in life and death situations so they wouldn’t trust themselves but God who delivered them from those situations. Paraphrased

Like you these people pray to an imaginary God yet use all the same cognative bias and are also fooled into thinking they are having a relationship with a God. Praise Allah.


Prayers that we perform have many benefits to our body, soul, and social life. Following are some of the benefits that praying brings us:

Prayer ensures that we remember God in the best way

Our almighty Lord has let us know that “Only in the remembrance of God do hearts find peace.” That is because remembering our Lord that we love the most and mentioning His name stills our troubled souls, expands our chests, and relaxes our hearts. The best way to remember God is to perform a ritual prayer. Each prayer that we perform reminds us our Lord. Thus, praying is a valuable gift that God had offered us. Our beloved Prophet knew the value of this gift and seized every opportunity to pray. He expressed the happiness and peace that he experienced in praying, saying: “My happiness is in the prayers.”

Praying reminds us of the Day of Judgment and the hereafter

There are many things in the world that make us forgetful of the hereafter. People who forget the hereafter, who do not think that they will render an account of their actions would do anything for their own benefits. For this reason, there should be a warner for people that reminds them of the hereafter. Prayers that are performed consciously and carefully remind us of God, the hereafter, and the Day of Judgment five times a day. As we remember the hereafter and the Day of Judgment, we stay away from evil. We would not harm anyone or their property, and would not be unfair to anyone.

Prayer purifies us from sins

Prayer time is the time of meeting with our Creator. As we pray, we know that we are in front of our Almighty Creator. If we contemplated committing a sin, we would change our mind by thinking of praying and being in front of God. By this, we would purify our hearts from evil feelings and thoughts and other parts of our body such as our hands and tongues from wrongdoings.

Praying improves our characters

Praying is a good chance for us to realize our wrongdoings and sins and ask for God’s forgiveness by repenting from them. By means of praying, we ask our Creator’s pardon and forgiveness. We stand in front of God five times a day, mindful that He knows of everything that we have done, and we pay more attention to our acts. As such, we become well-behaved human beings.

Prayer makes our day more fruitful and blessed

When we regularly perform our prayers, we schedule our day according to the prayer times. We even wake up before sunrise and start our day earlier. When most (non-praying) people are still asleep, we would be done with some of our tasks. By this, we take advantage of our Prophet’s prayer: “My Lord! Let the early hours of my Community be fruitful.” With the noon and late afternoon prayers that are performed at the busiest hours of the day, we remember God and relax our souls. We take a break with prayer, mentally relax and regain energy for our work. With the Sunset and Night Prayers, we reflect on the day and go to bed with the peace of performing our responsibilities.

Prayer gives us the habit of being clean

When we make ablution in order to perform a prayer, we clean parts of o u r body that get dirty the most in our daily life. We pay attention to our body, our clothes, and the place we perform the prayer to make sure they are clean. By making ablution a few times daily, we clean our hands, face, and feet. We gain the habit of remaining clean.

Once our Prophet asked his Companions:

- What do you say? If there is a river in front of the house of one you and if that person takes a bath in that river five times a day, would there be any filth left on him?

The Companions said:

- There would not be any filth left on him. Our Prophet said:

- “Praying five times a day is just like that. Allah forgives our sins through our five daily ritual prayers.”

 

[joelr]

God may say no to your specific request and yes to something else instead or give you more grace.
So yes you’re reaching, misrepresenting a “no” answer to a request, God will tell you, or show you why. Much different than talking to the wind.

What happens is you pray for something and it doesn't happen. Eventually something else does happen that you consider a positive change and you call this an "answered prayer". It's called regular life and it happens to everyone. Religious people use it as confirmation bias for a God.