There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[ElishaElijah]

She's not saying that.

She is saying she knows the Bible and was a Christian for 30 years and is a medium so yes that’s exactly what she is saying.
I’ve asked for clarification so why not just clarify the 2 different testimonies. Or reconcile them both.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

She's not saying that.

Most certainly not. As far as I'm concerned, people can accept or reject what I say about my personal experiences as a medium in communication with the spirit world. It's entirely their decision. Any religious objections to my abilities or any doubt about whether they are real or not won't change the reality that I've lived with these abilities all my life and I refuse to suppress them again in fear of what other people will think. As I said yesterday in my thread, the reason why I post on RF about my abilities and start threads about my investigations is so that I can give other people who don't have these abilities the chance to experience what I see. It's that simple.

I don't post about my abilities or my experiences with the paranormal in an effort to persuade skeptics and win them over to my point of view. I learned that it's pointless and a total waste of my time to debate and argue with hardcore skeptics online because they will not change their mind unless they're genuinely convinced after experiencing something paranormal firsthand for themselves. I don't argue with hardcore skeptics in person either, and skeptics like to hang around and scoff while I'm conducting an investigation. I will, however, invite them to participate in the investigation, but I'll ask them to be respectful of me and of everyone else around us, even though they don't believe in the paranormal as others do. If they agree to play nice, then I will accept their participation. I'll answer their questions; I'll explain to them how I conduct an investigation and what equipment I use; I'll explain how the equipment works; and I'll let them handle the equipment and encourage them to be actively involved in the investigation. More often than not, there will be a humbled skeptic who comes up to me after the investigation to tell me that they witnessed some very compelling evidence that has caused them to reconsider their view on the paranormal, and they thank me for letting them participate in the investigation.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Most certainly not. As far as I'm concerned, people can accept or reject what I say about my personal experiences as a medium in communication with the spirit world. It's entirely their decision. Any religious objections to my abilities or any doubt about whether they are real or not won't change the reality that I've lived with these abilities all my life and I refuse to suppress them again in fear of what other people will think. As I said yesterday in my thread, the reason why I post on RF about my abilities and start threads about my investigations is so that I can give other people who don't have these abilities the chance to experience what I see. It's that simple.

I don't post about my abilities or my experiences with the paranormal in an effort to persuade skeptics and win them over to my point of view. I learned that it's pointless and a total waste of my time to debate and argue with hardcore skeptics online because they will not change their mind unless they're genuinely convinced after experiencing something paranormal firsthand for themselves. I don't argue with hardcore skeptics in person either, and skeptics like to hang around and scoff while I'm conducting an investigation. I will, however, invite them to participate in the investigation, but I'll ask them to be respectful of me and of everyone else around us, even though they don't believe in the paranormal as others do. If they agree to play nice, then I will accept their participation. I'll answer their questions; I'll explain to them how I conduct an investigation and what equipment I use; I'll explain how the equipment works; and I'll let them handle the equipment and encourage them to be actively involved in the investigation. More often than not, there will be a humbled skeptic who comes up to me after the investigation to tell me that they witnessed some very compelling evidence that has caused them to reconsider their view on the paranormal, and they thank me for letting them participate in the investigation.

I know and have witnessed people being influenced by demons, spiritual forces and watched them throw up, shake, scream as they were expelled so I believe you when you say you were have been a medium and spiritist. You said you’ve been doing this since childhood so please reconcile this post which you said many, many times:

FWIW, you and Elisha Elijah remind me of when I was a Christian. I was just as fervent as you both are in defending Christianity, but I finally got to a breaking point where I could no longer ignore the nagging feeling I had in my heart that my belief in a loving, merciful God and a "heavenly father" was incompatible with the reality of my miserable life and the trauma I endured growing up in an abusive home and being bullied in school. To be blunt, being a Christian for thirty years was a wretched experience for me, and I wasn't willing to hold onto my Christian faith anymore, so I renounced it about a year and a half ago. It was detrimental to my well-being—mentally, emotionally, and physically. I can't speak for anyone else who has also left Christianity, but renouncing my faith in God and letting go of the hope I had in him was the best decision that I've ever made for myself. It was literally a life-changing experience for me, and I don't regret it. I wish that I had had the courage to walk away years ago, because I could have saved myself a lot of pain and anguish.

 

[Sheldon]

I know and have witnessed people being influenced by demons, spiritual forces and watched them throw up, shake, scream as they were expelled so I believe you when you say you were have been a medium and spiritist. You said you’ve been doing this since childhood so please reconcile this post which you said many, many times:

FWIW, you and Elisha Elijah remind me of when I was a Christian. I was just as fervent as you both are in defending Christianity, but I finally got to a breaking point where I could no longer ignore the nagging feeling I had in my heart that my belief in a loving, merciful God and a "heavenly father" was incompatible with the reality of my miserable life and the trauma I endured growing up in an abusive home and being bullied in school. To be blunt, being a Christian for thirty years was a wretched experience for me, and I wasn't willing to hold onto my Christian faith anymore, so I renounced it about a year and a half ago. It was detrimental to my well-being—mentally, emotionally, and physically. I can't speak for anyone else who has also left Christianity, but renouncing my faith in God and letting go of the hope I had in him was the best decision that I've ever made for myself. It was literally a life-changing experience for me, and I don't regret it. I wish that I had had the courage to walk away years ago, because I could have saved myself a lot of pain and anguish.

So if you could stop a child being abused, would you quibble about the child's behaviour, or how it asked for help?

 

[AdamjEdgar]

We know winning the lottery is an objective possibility, that's the difference, you seem be using a variation of the debunked Pascal's wager, not very compelling.

And yet people still play lotto!

 

[Sheldon]

And yet people still play lotto!

Why wouldn't they?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Why wouldn't they?

Because the likelihood of their hitting the jackpot amounts to a statistical near impossibility. In other words, while someone will win, the probability of it not being you is close to unity.

 

[Sheldon]

Because the likelihood of their hitting the jackpot amounts to a statistical near impossibility. In other words, while someone will win, the probability of it not being you is close to unity.

How is that a reason not to play? The post I answered said "and yet they still play the lotto"?

Again why wouldn't they play, the potential rewards far outweighs the slim chances of winning?

 

[RestlessSoul]

How is that a reason not to play? The post I answered said "and yet they still play the lotto"?

Again why wouldn't they play, the potential rewards far outweighs the slim chances of winning?

No, the opposite is generally true; the odds against winning far outweigh the potential rewards, both of which are easily quantifiable.

 

[Sheldon]

No, the opposite is generally true; the odds against winning far outweigh the potential rewards, both of which are easily quantifiable.

No they don't that's just your subjective opinion, and again why is that a reason not to play the lottery?

 

[Subduction Zone]

No they don't that's just your subjective opinion, and again why is that a reason not to play the lottery?

ooh! The lottery, yes! Time to invest in my retirement plan again.

Seriously it is getting tempting. Two different lotteries at over 300 million. If I win both I can retire. If one treats buying a ticket as entertainment it is not a bad idea. Lots of dreams that are more likely to come true than those of many of the religious people here. It only costs $4.00 for one ticket each.

By the way, never buy more than one ticket. Your odds of losing are almost the same no matter how many tickets that you buy.

 

[Sheldon]

ooh! The lottery, yes! Time to invest in my retirement plan again.

Seriously it is getting tempting. Two different lotteries at over 300 million. If I win both I can retire. If one treats buying a ticket as entertainment it is not a bad idea. Lots of dreams that are more likely to come true than those of many of the religious people here. It only costs $4.00 for one ticket each.

By the way, never buy more than one ticket. Your odds of losing are almost the same no matter how many tickets that you buy.

One ticket only, you're spot on of course.

I won £2.50 on the Euro lottery yesterday, quality. If I win another £92997.50 I'll get my life savings back from the divorce my ex started behind my back, to run off with someone else the year I'd planned to retire.

Now can someone explain again how my confidence in or love of. my (ex) wife is the same as religious faith?

Oh the pub was banging, not seen anything like it since before Covid...

 

[Jolly]

Of course it does, don't be silly.

Seems to be more your racket.

Unevidenced assumption, therefore unevidenced assumption, so it follows unevidenced assumption, thus unevidenced assumption, ipso facto unevidenced assumption.



Of course you would, does your arrogance go so far as to tell me what I may and may not lend credence to?

No, "Ofcourse I would"? When did I in anyway suggest you should believe in or lend credence to anything?

You are the one making arrogant demands here not me.

Cool story, and you're telling me because???

maybe because unlike yourself I repect a persons freedom to believe whatever they want within reason.

Nope, it gathers evidence and designs objective repeatable methods to test it and any conclusions it supports.

again you ignore the many underlying Assumptions all that is built upon.

No it's not, and I may well have not done so, but I have as it happens. Though how it emerged and what philosophical ideas were its precursors are irrelevant.

It is a method(s) for studying and understanding the physical universe.

In your opinion.

Straw man fallacy, try thinking outside of the "irrational" box your dogma has your post wallowing in.

Or stop pretending your phone works, but the science that underpins it doesn't.

The ignorance of the "science verse faith" discision and the desire to seek to impose it. All rather hilarious in my opinion.

Actually I don't care, your posts don't lend confidence in your suspicions.
Says the one peddling snake oil superstition.

In your opinion.

It's neither, it's another straw man you've created, is English your first language?
Apples are nice, and green.

I prefer red ones.

 

[RestlessSoul]

No they don't that's just your subjective opinion, and again why is that a reason not to play the lottery?

It’s not subjective at all. It’s in the numbers. A lottery, where the outcome is completely random and the odds are easily calculated, provides us with one of those rare cases wherein reason alone gives us all the information necessary to make an informed decision. It’s completely unreasonable to play the lottery.

 

[RestlessSoul]

ooh! The lottery, yes! Time to invest in my retirement plan again.

Seriously it is getting tempting. Two different lotteries at over 300 million. If I win both I can retire. If one treats buying a ticket as entertainment it is not a bad idea. Lots of dreams that are more likely to come true than those of many of the religious people here. It only costs $4.00 for one ticket each.

By the way, never buy more than one ticket. Your odds of losing are almost the same no matter how many tickets that you buy.

This where subjectivity comes in. Pure reason cannot quantify the value to an individual of a dream, even when the probability of that dream coming true is something we can objectively measure as a near impossibility. We all need dreams, that much is clear.

 

[joelr]

Oh Joel, you remind me so much of me when I was an atheist. I enjoy your posts so much!

So you are saying you don't believe this is the case here? - "What happens is you pray for something and it doesn't happen. Eventually something else does happen that you consider a positive change and you call this an "answered prayer". It's called regular life and it happens to everyone. Religious people use it as confirmation bias for a God."

But rather a God is actually answering? So as I point out this happens, complete with remarkable coincidences, in my secular life. So there is no doubt that this is a part of life. I can actually see the times I would have normally attributed it to a prayer and other times where it's such a coincidence that I would have had no doubt it was some sort of supernatural influence. Except again, these are not generally as big of a coincidence as they seem. They just stand out from times where no coincidence is happening.

So is your position that for atheists it's just probabilities playing out as they will and for a Christian they are answered prayer? Which is already weird because probabilities should also play out for Christians as well?

Now what about when this happens to Hindu? Lord Krishna guides many Hindu to be at the perfect place at the perfect time. Sometimes he says "no" because he has a better plan in mind. Is that Krishna or is that confirmation bias?

Because one believes something doesn't make it true. Evidence can point to things that are actually true. Feel free to present an argument that this "answered prayer " confirmation bias isn't true?
But it is true for Muslims and Hindu isn't it? So are you saying when it happens to a Christian then it's a deity? Special pleading?

 

[joelr]

Except before I knew God I only got this:
“Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has conflicts? Who has complaints? Who has wounds for no reason? Who has red eyes? Those who linger over wine; those who go looking for mixed wine. Don’t gaze at wine because it is red, because it gleams in the cup and goes down smoothly. In the end it bites like a snake and stings like a viper. Your eyes will see strange things, and you will say absurd things. You’ll be like someone sleeping out at sea or lying down on the top of a ship’s mast. “They struck me, but I feel no pain! They beat me, but I didn’t know it! When will I wake up? I’ll look for another drink.””
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭23:29-35‬ ‭CSB‬‬
Day in and day out this was my life. Then Psalms 107 and now I give thanks to God for the wonderful things He does every day! He’s so awesome and great!

You think humans over 2000 years ago having wisdom about boozing being bad demonstrates a divinity? That would be absurd levels of confirmation bias.
Glad you mentioned Proverbs. I was taught this was new wisdom from Yahweh and the Israelites for it's time. Until I looked into my beliefs. It isn't.

The Book of Proverbs
Book of Proverbs - Wikipedia

The third unit, 22:17–24:22, is headed "bend your ear and hear the words of the wise". A large part of this section is a recasting of a second-millennium BCE Egyptian work, the Instruction of Amenemope, and may have reached the Hebrew author(s) through an Aramaic translation.

The "wisdom" genre was widespread throughout the ancient Near East, and reading Proverbs alongside the examples recovered from Egypt and Mesopotamia reveals the common ground shared by international wisdom




here at 8:54 Hebrew Bible Professor Francesca Stavrakopoulou explains the writings about Yahweh were the same things people were writing about Gods thousands of years before that. She brings up the first known author ever Edheduanna's poem about Inanna. Inanna is the creation of wisdom and the maker of male and female and the highest supreme blah blah

 

[joelr]

Wow the law of attraction! I hadn’t thought of that, now I have something else to thank God for today, it’s never ending, a continual feast of gratitude going on. So I’m attracted to God and I get Heaven. I fix my eyes on Jesus the author and finisher of my faith and get to know Him more and more. Walking in the light my path getting brighter and brighter. I like that!

The depth to which you believe fiction isn't fascinating and your personal amazement at how easily you fall for stories is also uninteresting? But on a debate forum it's completely inappropriate. But since it is a debate forum this counts as you utterly failing to offer proof of your beliefs. So it stands they are fiction.
But I will continue to source my ideas.


It's done with all religions......(so it's clearly psychological ie. in your mind..)
I'm so in love with Lord Krishna what should I do? - Quora
I'm so in love with Lord Krishna what should I do?

Loving Krishna is undoubtedly the best thing one can do.
“The only way you can conquer me is through love and there I am gladly conquered" - Bhagavad Gita

Yes it's acceptable by Krishna. But it's not that easy to do. Loving Krishna means serving Krishna, offering sacrifices to Krishna. Lord Krishna is very difficult to worship.

"Because I am difficult to worship, people generally avoid Me and instead worship other deities, who are quickly satisfied. When people receive kingly opulences from these deities, they become arrogant, intoxicated with pride and neglectful of their duties. They dare to offend even the demigods who have bestowed benedictions upon them" - Srimad Bhagavatam

He perfectly knows the depth of our devotion and love.Intentions of our heart is crystal clear to him. Accordingly he will give us some experiences in our life, very hard experiments I must say, not to test our faith. He give us hard times only to purify our heart. Even if our approach to him is wrong he will give thousands of chances to correct our mistakes. The chances to destroy our ego, lust, greed, pride and material attachment.

"The Personality of Godhead said: If I especially favour someone, I gradually deprive him of his wealth. Then the relatives and friends of such a poverty-stricken man abandon him. In this way, he suffers one distress after another.

When he becomes frustrated in his attempts to make money and instead befriends My devotees, I bestow My special mercy upon him."

Take those chances to let our god come to us.This is how he will respond to us. This is his special mercy on us. Don't give up completely surrender to him. Crave for him even in the slightest darkness of an eye blink. Pray for his love, pray for his protection. Even if you can't love him like Radha, even if you can't worship him like Meera.. Even if you can't serve him like Rukmini.. Even if you can't crave for him like sathyabhama.. Love him with the whole of your heart.. He is said to be the eternal husband to every soul. Thus it's our right to love him.

Continue your journey in the path of love. You just cant reach to the top on a sudden.Abandoning all material attachments at one go is not possible. Slowly when love grows, your sacrifices are offering to your love. When your love conquers you, you wont suffer..you blossom. When Krishna makes a foot print in your heart every living cell of yours will praise only his name. Your heart beats will chant only his name. Your chances of purification depends on depth of your love for Krishna. Hope he will make a way for you. And for me too.



it's a Greek myth....
During the period of the Second Temple (c. 515 BC – 70 AD), the Hebrew people lived under the rule of first the Persian Achaemenid Empire, then the Greek kingdoms of the Diadochi, and finally the Roman Empire.[47] Their culture was profoundly influenced by those of the peoples who ruled them.[47] Consequently, their views on existence after death were profoundly shaped by the ideas of the Persians, Greeks, and Romans.[48][49] The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[49] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is derived from Persian cosmology.[49] By the early first century AD, these two seemingly incompatible ideas were often conflated by Hebrew thinkers.[49] The Hebrews also inherited from the Persians, Greeks, and Romans the idea that the human soul originates in the divine realm and seeks to return there.[47] The idea that a human soul belongs in Heaven and that Earth is merely a temporary abode in which the soul is tested to prove its worthiness became increasingly popular during the Hellenistic period (323 – 31 BC).[40] Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead.[40]

 

[Subduction Zone]

This where subjectivity comes in. Pure reason cannot quantify the value to an individual of a dream, even when the probability of that dream coming true is something we can objectively measure as a near impossibility. We all need dreams, that much is clear.

Dreams are nice. Goals are very high in values. But it can be hazardous if one conflates the two.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Dreams are nice. Goals are very high in values. But it can be hazardous if one conflates the two.

While it is common linguistic practice to equate dreams with aspirations, they are not necessarily the same thing. A dream may seem real for as long as it lasts, and may be experienced in the here and now. A goal on the other hand, being something to aim at and therefore obtainable only in the future, is always a temporal abstraction.