There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[ElishaElijah]

Where did she claim that? And remember, the same rules that you use will be used against you

Hit your Home button and look at her OP

 

[Jolly]

I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?

Sadly you are like many stuck in enlightenment thinking, which is inherently reductionist in its conceptions. Ideas like the notion only substance is real therefore science by exploring REAL world can learn the ultimate truth about the universe- also leads into even more crazy ideas about the ability of man to control nature.

God is inherently meta physical, therefore will always be outside the realms of a science that is inherently reductionist in its perception things only exist for science once discovered, considering how much we do not know about the nature of existence scientists are always in the dark yet often choose to ignore that truth while simultaneously over estimating their actual awareness.

Space time is doomed to quote Donald Hoffmann "the entire scientific framework is False!"

In another sense science has completely misunderstood the nature of reality, its built inside a box- you speak about proff of God, but as things stand all the current proofs of science are wrong in their conception.

You'd have to stick god in that fantasy box of science to prove him, I suggest you gain more awareness about the actual limitations of science.

Although Hume does say "nothing cannot create anything therefore there must be a God"

I would say when all is in balance(given equal value) God has weight.

 

[Sheldon]

God is inherently meta physical, therefore will always be outside the realms of a science

Well that sounds like deism not theism, since theists claim their deity intervenes in the physical universe. Even were this true, you'd be describing a deity indiscernible form a non-existent one. And of course it is a subjective and unevidenced assertions, you'd need to demonstrate something approaching objective evidence to support your claim, before I could lend it any credence.

things only exist for science once discovered, considering how much we do not know about the nature of existence scientists are always in the dark yet often choose to ignore that truth while simultaneously over estimating their actual awareness.

Science is just a method(s) for learning and understanding how the physical universe works. It's methods gather and test evidence, but no the methods would not lend credence to unevidenced subjective beliefs, you seem to be implying this is a flaw in the method, but I can't agree.

Space time is doomed to quote Donald Hoffmann "the entire scientific framework is False!"

I can't help noticing you're happy to use technologies explained and enabled by the methods of science to convey this message, I'm guessing you'd also seek the benefit of medical science if you were ill, and I doubt you'd get a plane built solely using faith and prayer.

In another sense science has completely misunderstood the nature of reality, its built inside a box- you speak about proff of God, but as things stand all the current proofs of science are wrong in their conception.

I don't believe you, but then I seldom believe sweeping unevidenced claims. Most especially when they are used to peddle unevidenced superstition.

You'd have to stick god in that fantasy box of science to prove him, I suggest you gain more awareness about the actual limitations of science.

It's for those who claim a deity exists to properly evidence the claim, and again it is risible to imagine that science's inability to study invisible deities represents a flaw in its methods. FWIW science can't study or detect anything that doesn't exist, you might want to ponder that fact before placing the deity you imagine is real in that category, then trying to blame science.

Although Hume does say "nothing cannot create anything therefore there must be a God"

Hume was a philosopher, not a Physicist, so his opinion on the origins of the universe are not really pertinent.

 

[ElishaElijah]

If God does exist, then for me, the sheer contrast between my experience with God and Elisha Elijah's experience with him begs the question, why does a "loving, merciful" God intervene in someone's life, like Elisha Elijah's life, and seemingly turn his life around for the better, but refuse to intervene in a hellhole life like mine, where I endured abuse and bullying while I was growing up? Did I not deserve divine intervention from God? I was genuinely devoted to him while I was growing up and for thirty years thereafter.

Why did a "loving, merciful" God and "heavenly father" refuse to answer the sincere pleas of a child to save her from being abused and bullied? I've suffered from PTSD for years because of the trauma I endured while growing up, but I never felt any relief from the pain, anxiety, or depression while I was a Christian, despite my devout faith in God and prayers to him. Well, I stopped praying and I started taking care of myself. It took me a long time to accept the fact that God wasn't going to help me, and if I wanted to survive and get better, then I had to save myself. And now I realize that I don't need God and I'm much better off without having faith in him.

Below are the questions I asked in another post. I decided to include them in this post.

I would agree and now I can see why you were in such turmoil, light and darkness don’t mix. As the Bible says you can’t serve 2 masters you will hate one and love the other.
But it seems so deceitful to call God a sadistic monster because He supposedly didn’t answer your prayers for help, then on the other hand you are dabbling in the occult being a medium. Care to explain that? Your stories don’t match up at all.

 

[Muffled]

Then you do not understand human nature. It is quite easy for people to be wrong about their own experiences. In fact human memory is a very flawed thing to rely on.

This makes no sense. You appear to be the one without a scientific education. So you are dissing yourself here? And you need to provide evidence that there is such a thing as a "Holy Spirit" And yes, those who study the Bible often do know it best. Sadly, that is usually not Christians.

I believe individuals can be flawed but there is a consistency in the reported experiences. Sometime experiences can be errantly evaluated. For instance I am sure people watching the first plane hit a trade tower thought it was the only one but were wrong as further experience revealed. Science has that as well. It was assumes that the evidence for man only being 300,000 years old until remains were found of one a million years old.

I believe I have high school and college education in science achieving a BS. However I have no experience with science other than in the educational setting. I keep learning be reading.

I believe there we get back to millions of testimonies.

I believe I have read it enough to know it pretty well but still attend bible study but then I am a Baptist for whom this is a major thing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe individuals can be flawed but there is a consistency in the reported experiences. Sometime experiences can be errantly evaluated. For instance I am sure people watching the first plane hit a trade tower thought it was the only one but were wrong as further experience revealed. Science has that as well. It was assumes that the evidence for man only being 300,000 years old until remains were found of one a million years old.

I believe I have high school and college education in science achieving a BS. However I have no experience with science other than in the educational setting. I keep learning be reading.

I believe there we get back to millions of testimonies.

I believe I have read it enough to know it pretty well but still attend bible study but then I am a Baptist for whom this is a major thing.

Your beliefs do not matter at all. What matters is what you can support properly. For example you made what looks like a false accusation in your post. Do you think that you can find it before I explain it to you?

 

[Muffled]

There is still the judgement at the end of the age.
Death entered because of sin, everyone dies and then the judgement.

I believe the judgment is God's judgment not men's judgment.

 

[Muffled]

Your beliefs do not matter at all. What matters is what you can support properly. For example you made what looks like a false accusation in your post. Do you think that you can find it before I explain it to you?

I already know but my memory isn't perfect. You could fact check it but maybe you think you already know which may be the case with me also.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I already know but my memory isn't perfect. You could fact check it but maybe you think you already know which may be the case with me also.

I did not say anything about your memory.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Where did she claim that? And remember, the same rules that you use will be used against you

Although I've been discussing the subject for months in both my older threads and in my comments in other people's threads on the same subject, it appears that my most recent thread has ruffled some feathers. It isn't exactly breaking news, though. FWIW, I'm not deterred by the close-minded and abrasive objections to my discussions about the paranormal from Christians or other Abrahamic theists. Fortunately for me, I'm on RF and its staff are swift in dealing with any problem that arises on the forum. I will make good use of the ignore option and I will go on with my life. For the record, I made the decision a long time ago to not be discouraged by rude objections because I will not give others the power to silence me or force me to reject my beliefs by publicly criticizing or shaming me.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Although I've been discussing the subject for months in both my older threads and in my comments in other people's threads on the same subject, it appears that my most recent thread has ruffled some feathers. It isn't exactly breaking news, though. FWIW, I'm not deterred by the close-minded and abrasive objections to my discussions about the paranormal from Christians or other Abrahamic theists. Fortunately for me, I'm on RF and its staff are swift in dealing with any problem that arises on the forum. I will make good use of the ignore option and I will go on with my life. For the record, I made the decision a long time ago to not be discouraged by rude objections because I will not give others the power to silence me or force me to reject my beliefs by publicly criticizing or shaming me.

If asking for clarification and an explanation is shaming or ruffled feathers when your testimony contradicts then not sure what to tell you.
You’re a medium and so what?

 

[Sheldon]

But it seems so deceitful to call God a sadistic monster because He supposedly didn’t answer your prayers for help,

If you could stop a child being abused would you quibble about how the child asked you for help?

 

[ElishaElijah]

If you could stop a child being abused would you quibble about how the child asked you for help?

She said as a child she was inviting spirits into her life so that part doesn’t match up with her story, you can read her other testimony on the thread about her being a medium.

 

[Subduction Zone]

She said as a child she was inviting spirits into her life so that part doesn’t match up with her story, you can read her other testimony on the thread about her being a medium.

So spirits, not demons. Demons come from your mythology.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So spirits, not demons. Demons come from your mythology.

So do you believe in spirits or that there are spirits

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If you could stop a child being abused would you quibble about how the child asked you for help?

I could feel other people's feelings when I was growing up (and I still can), so I was aware of the possibility that telling anyone about what I could do might result in a serious problem for me. I didn't tell anyone while I was growing up. The first person I ever told was my husband, and I didn't tell him until after we were married. I feared what he would think of me, but his reaction wasn't negative at all. I consider myself very fortunate because he took me at my word and he has given me unconditional support as I deal with my gift on a daily basis. Personally, I think it speaks well to his good character as a Christian. He's not the typical judgemental, self-righteous Christian that I'm used to encountering in real life or online. I told him that if it weren't for him and a couple of other good-hearted Christians that I also know, I would loath Christianity. He and I have been together for thirty years and married for twenty-nine years.

 

[Sheldon]

She said as a child she was inviting spirits into her life so that part doesn’t match up with her story, you can read her other testimony on the thread about her being a medium.

If you could stop a child being abused would you quibble about how the child asked you for help?

 

[Jolly]

Well that sounds like deism not theism, since theists claim their deity intervenes in the physical universe.

Bares no relationship to the point- heaven or God throne are theological seen as holy and separate from the creation, weather god intervenes in the creation or not has little bearing on Gods spritual and not physical nature.

Even were this true, you'd be describing a deity indiscernible form a non-existent one. And of course it is a subjective and unevidenced assertions, you'd need to demonstrate something approaching objective evidence to support your claim, before I could lend it any credence.

I have to do no such thing I have very little interest in trying to prove under some "scientific" method the existence of God

Science is just a method(s) for learning and understanding how the physical universe works.

No it is not, science has an underlying philosophy about the nature of reality, about its purpose and function. You may have never considered the propositions that science rests upon you may well take on blind faith as true- but to suggest science is nothing more then a method is completely false.

It's methods gather and test evidence, but no the methods would not lend credence to unevidenced subjective beliefs, you seem to be implying this is a flaw in the method, but I can't agree.
I can't help noticing you're happy to use technologies explained and enabled by the methods of science to convey this message, I'm guessing you'd also seek the benefit of medical science if you were ill, and I doubt you'd get a plane built solely using faith and prayer.

This is hilarious, only people that think in the same box I do should be allowed to use technology- otherwise they are hypocrites of some sort- sad.

Honestly, bow down to science or stop using your phone

I don't believe you, but then I seldom believe sweeping unevidenced claims. Most especially when they are used to peddle unevidenced superstition.

Actually I suspect you havent actually understood my point.

It's for those who claim a deity exists to properly evidence the claim,

Seriously get out the litte box you live in.

and again it is risible to imagine that science's inability to study invisible deities represents a flaw in its methods. FWIW science can't study or detect anything that doesn't exist,

And you assume that it can prove everything that does- that's a belief not a fact.

you might want to ponder that fact before placing the deity you imagine is real in that category, then trying to blame science.
Hume was a philosopher, not a Physicist, so his opinion on the origins of the universe are not really pertinent.

As I suggested before Space time is doomed

 

[Sheldon]

Bares no relationship to the point-

Of course it does, don't be silly.

heaven or God throne are theological seen as holy and separate from the creation, weather god intervenes in the creation or not has little bearing on Gods spritual and not physical nature.

Unevidenced assumption, therefore unevidenced assumption, so it follows unevidenced assumption, thus unevidenced assumption, ipso facto unevidenced assumption.

Sheldon said: ↑you'd need to demonstrate something approaching objective evidence to support your claim, before I could lend it any credence.

I have to do no such thing

Of course you would, does your arrogance go so far as to tell me what I may and may not lend credence to?

I have very little interest in trying to prove under some "scientific" method the existence of God

Cool story, and you're telling me because???

Sheldon said: ↑
Science is just a method(s) for learning and understanding how the physical universe works.

No it is not,

Yes it is.

science has an underlying philosophy about the nature of reality, about its purpose and function.

Nope, it gathers evidence and designs objective repeatable methods to test it and any conclusions it supports.

You may have never considered the propositions that science rests upon you may well take on blind faith as true- but to suggest science is nothing more then a method is completely false.

No it's not, and I may well have not done so, but I have as it happens. Though how it emerged and what philosophical ideas were its precursors are irrelevant. It is a method(s) for studying and understanding the physical universe.

This is hilarious, only people that think in the same box I do should be allowed to use technology- otherwise they are hypocrites of some sort- sad.

Straw man fallacy, try thinking outside of the "irrational" box your dogma has your post wallowing in.

Honestly, bow down to science or stop using your phone

Or stop pretending your phone works, but the science that underpins it doesn't.

Sheldon said: ↑
I don't believe you, but then I seldom believe sweeping unevidenced claims. Most especially when they are used to peddle unevidenced superstition.

Actually I suspect you havent actually understood my point.

Actually I don't care, your posts don't lend confidence in your suspicions.

Sheldon said: ↑
It's for those who claim a deity exists to properly evidence the claim,

Seriously get out the litte box you live in.

Says the one peddling snake oil superstition.

Sheldon said: ↑
and again it is risible to imagine that science's inability to study invisible deities represents a flaw in its methods. FWIW science can't study or detect anything that doesn't exist,

And you assume that it can prove everything that does- that's a belief not a fact.

It's neither, it's another straw man you've created, is English your first language?

Sheldon said: ↑
you might want to ponder that fact before placing the deity you imagine is real in that category, then trying to blame science.
Hume was a philosopher, not a Physicist, so his opinion on the origins of the universe are not really pertinent.

As I suggested before Space time is doomed

Apples are nice, and green.

 

[PearlSeeker]

her new OP she is saying she has been consulting with demons

She's not saying that.