There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[joelr]

So impossible things will never happen anywhere?

Probably not in this universe.

If life is not just chemically based then life will never come about through chemistry only.

But it is, and it came about.

Science does not know that God does not exist and says so.

Science does not know that Zeus does not exist and says so. Science does not know that the Quran wasn't dictated by Gabrielle, and says so.

Who cares. Does that prove the Quran is true? Oh, it doesn't? Huh?

From this site:

The Soleb Inscription: Earliest-Discovered Use of the Name 'Yahweh'

And evidence for the much-debated era of the Exodus

armstronginstitute.org

In short, the Soleb inscription indicates that around 1400 b.c.e., a nomadic people was on the scene to the north. Their distinguishing feature was their god Yahweh. They were known, hated, and perhaps even feared in Egypt, and they were numerous—so numerous that the Egyptian empire considered them a threat.

Yup, you just proved Yahweh was taken from Canaanite religion.
The site you linked to is an apologetic site, no peer-reviewed work, total bias,
An actual archaeology site, no bias:
The nomads were not Israelites.

. The Soleb Inscription​

A reconstruction of the “Land of the Shasu of Yahweh” inscription at the temple of Soleb. Photo Credit: https://flic.kr/p/dULpbp At the end of the 15th century B.C., the Egyptian Pharaoh Amenhotep III built a temple to honor the god Amun-Ra at Soleb in Nubia (modern-day northern Sudan). Within the temple area are a series of columns on which Amenhotep III listed the territories he claimed to have conquered. Each territory is listed by a relief of a prisoner with their hands tied behind their backs over an oval “name ring” identifying the land of the particular foe. The most interesting from a biblical perspective is a column drum that lists enemies from the “the land of the Shasu (nomads) of Yahweh”. Given the other name rings nearby, the context would place this land in the Canaanite region. In addition, the prisoner is clearly portrayed as Semitic, rather than African-looking, as other prisoners in the list are portrayed.1 Two conclusions are almost universally accepted: this inscription clearly references Yahweh in Egyptian hieroglyphics (the oldest such reference outside of the Bible), and that around 1400 B.C. Amenhoteph III knew about the god Yahweh. Moreover, it would indicate an area in Canaan in the 15th century B.C. inhabited by nomadic or semi-nomadic people who worship the god Yahweh.

Three Egyptian Inscriptions About Israel

In the Bible there are numerous interactions between the Israelites and the Egyptians. Such interactions can be seen in three Egyptian inscriptions that clearly refer to the Hebrew people. 1. The …

biblearchaeologyreport.com

See this -

"
the dramatic Exodus from Egypt following the 10 plagues is said to have happened around 1446 b.c.e.—during the middle part of the 15th century b.c.e., with the Israelites arriving in Canaan 40 years later, at the end of that century.

How much of this Exodus and sojourn account is true? Again, archaeology alone can’t prove every detail. But even leaving aside all other archaeological evidence (a significant amount—see our article “Evidence of the Exodus?”), the Soleb inscription alone supports the backbone of the narrative."

From your site, not one actual historian or mainstream archaeologist agrees with this, it's total nonsense. The evidence, that is consensus is Exodus is a myth, Israelites came from Canaan. Even their DNA supports this.

You are talking about science and that there are no other views in science.

Yet another strawman, never said that. You are getting delusional.

But of course, as I said, science does not claim or know that God does not exist, that claim comes from the faith of skeptics and atheists who believe only what science says,

No, that comes from lack of evidence, in the real world. In your fantasy world you made up (do you sit around with apologists and make this stuff up?) it exists. Not in the real world.

I don't care about these strawmen you are arguing against. Shouldn't one learn debate before they get schooled in a debate forum?

but take it further, proclaiming their own faith and wanting to make it look like it is from science.

Strawman # (lost count), they go be what evidence presents. It presents no soul, God, or any 7 headed monster in Revelation.

But it does demonstrate evolution, self replicating chemicals and slowly working on abiogenesis. While you insert God of the Gaps.

I don't believe in a storm giant. I believe in YHWH who has evidence of His existence unless you want to presume it away with naturalism only and no other possible interpretations of religions in general and the Bible in particular.

Yahweh is a storm God, like it or not. Now you have to argure the text is also wrong HA HA HA HA HA, not just science............


Out of the brightness before him
there broke through his clouds hailstones and coals of fire
Yahewh thundered in the heavens
the Most High uttered his voice
Psalms 18.9-13


"Far from portraying him as a supreme king and creator of the cosmos, they present him instead as a minor but ferocious storm deity."
Dr Stavrakopoulou, professor of Hebrew Bible, Exiter University in 'God: An Anatomy'


science is wrong, scripture is wrong, everyone is wrong LOL

Interesting interpretation and based on the presumption that all religions copied from other religions and none are true.

Using intertextuality scholars can demonstrate a work is dependent on another. Also the myths are the same. Hilariously the same. So God showed up and used older myths, cool story bro.

How is that any different to "life is just chemically based"?

It's not, there may be processes we don't know using chemicals. Sorry, no soul exists except in myth.


The Hebrews also inherited from the Persians, Greeks, and Romans the idea that the human soul originates in the divine realm and seeks to return there.[47] The idea that a human soul belongs in Heaven and that Earth is merely a temporary abode in which the soul is tested to prove its worthiness became increasingly popular during the Hellenistic period (323 – 31 BC).[40] Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead.[40]


(Sanders)

Believers in God etc know and admit that they have a faith.
You don't know or admit that.

Because I have evidence. Works better than faith. Scientists in Europe or Middle East have the same law of thermodynamic and elements.
In middle East, the religion is..........Quran, Sikh, Bahai,........not at all the same, so, good point (secretly face palm)

About the creation myths, imo the Genesis account should be similar in some ways to older accounts but also imo it should correct corruptions in older accounts.

nope, it relies on older text,
John Collins, Introduction to the Hebrew Bible 3rd ed.
“Biblical creation stories draw motifs from Mesopotamia, Much of the language and imagery of the Bible was culture specific and deeply embedded in the traditions of the Near East.
2nd ed. The Old Testament, Davies and Rogerson
“We know from the history of the composition of Gilamesh that ancient writers did adapt and re-use older stories……
It is safer to content ourselves with comparing the motifs and themes of Genesis with those of other ancient Near East texts.
In this way we acknowledge our belief that the biblical writers adapted existing stories, while we confess our ignorance about the form and content of the actual stories that the Biblical writers used.”
The Old Testament, A Historical and Literary Introduction to the Hebrew Scriptures, M. Coogan
“Genesis employs and alludes to mythical concepts and phrasing, but at the same time it also adapts transforms and rejected them”
God in Translation, Smith
“…the Bibles authors fashioned whatever they may have inherited of the Mesopotamian literary tradition on their own terms”
THE OT Text and Content, Matthews, Moyer
“….a great deal of material contained in the primeval epics in Genesis is borrowed and adapted from the ancient cultures of that region.”

The Formation of Genesis 1-11, Carr
“The previous discussion has made clear how this story in Genesis represents a complex juxtaposition of multiple traditions often found separately in the Mesopotamian literary world….”
The Priestly Vision of Genesis, Smith
“….storm God and cosmic enemies passed into Israelite tradition. The biblical God is not only generally similar to Baal as a storm god, but God inherited the names of Baal’s cosmic enemies, with names such as Leviathan, Sea, Death and Tanninim.”

But of course we all know that humans are made from the earth but the creation myth of today is that earth is all there was and there is nothing else that gives the clay body life.

it's called amino acids, peptides, water, heat, nucleobase, and so on.

OR, maybe you could write out a curse from Yahweh, pour it on clay and see! Because that adultery test, that's gold.

 

[PureX]

The brain enables the cognitive functionality, and the functionality then enables cognition. The purpose is the cognition. The reason the brain came to exist, and is able to do what it does, is to achieve cognition. And none of this would have happened if cognition was not already possible to be achieved, physically. So crediting physical materiality for it is wrong. The credit belongs to whatever design mechanism was responsible for allowing for that possibility.

 

[Audie]

I didn't post a thing about there being any "designer". As an atheist, that's your bogeyman to deal with. What I posted was that design is required to achieve a specific result. And complexity is a big increase in specificity.

A broken rock used to cut animal skin.
Super sprcific. Super complex. Super intelligent
design. Even though the rock was found already broken.

 

[PureX]

A broken rock used to cut animal skin.
Super sprcific. Super complex. Super intelligent
design. Even though the rock was found already broken.

Actually, we broke the rock specifically for the task we wanted to use it for.

Human design can be very complex. Yet even we can't understand universal design. Not even close.

 

[Muffled]

Nice word salad, but it does not really help you. You would need to give examples that are not well explained by evolution without a designer. To date no one has come close to doing that.

I believe describing anything with evolution is fantasy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe describing anything with evolution is fantasy.

Well that is just silly because the evidence for evolution is endless. It is regularly used in biology to make predictions for various fields. You appear to have a superstitious belief and those never trump reality.

Instead of accusing others of your sins you should be asking yourself "How can i rationally support my religious beliefs?"

 

[Audie]

I believe describing anything with evolution is fantasy.

What a guy. Do believe what is wild fantasy and magic,
like flood,but show you mounds of evidence and solid reasoning, and ...you don't believe it.

You really think you understand things better than the finest minds, that you know so much ( with zero education) that you know more than any researcher on
Earth, compared to you their work is childish fantasy?

You've drifted too far from shore, my friend.

 

[joelr]

The evidence with the presumption that life came about naturally, points in one direction and without people giving alternative views that direction would be the presumed truth for everyone, as it is for many.
Chemistry is one thing, but presuming only chemistry for life is a faith based on the presumption that it is only chemistry. IOW the evidence of chemistry can only point to the formation of chemicals, but we should not presume that means that it points to how life began and what life is. That part of it is presumed to be chemical in nature.

The evidence points where it points. It isn't scientists fault hat they see no supernatural agent causing life?
What they see is, about 4 billion years ago the Earth was being bombarded with rocks from space, this is the Hayden period of heavy bombardment. 3,8 billion years ago that period stopped. In just 200 million years the Earth cooled, lava cooled into rock and life began. This demonstrates that it's very easy for life to start in our universe.

All life is made of 4 things, proteins (amino acids), lipids (fatty acids), carbohydrates (sugars) and nucleic acids made of nitrogenous bases.
Many experiments have shown simple organic molecules can form these complex organic molecules on earth. Creationist say th experiments were contaminated.
So we then found all of those things in space as well. Space, where no scientists are contaminating experiments. Space has sugars, amino acids etc... on meteors and asteroids. Building blocks assemble under mundane conditions, it started really quickly, and is completely natural.

Our knowledge of abiogenesis has significantly grown over the past decades and will be more complete in a few more.

The gaps are getting smaller so God of the Gaps is getting smaller and smaller.

This is what evidence shows.

 

[joelr]

It does more than just indicate design, it requires it. But there was still no mention of any "designer".

Your personal incredulity doesn't make something true. Because you cannot fathom the complexity of natural forces in physics, which extends up into other sciences doesn't mean it requires a deity. Quantum mechanics is more complex than simple life evolving into complex life. Nature doesn't have to be how you require it to be and natural, unconscious process are able to create complex things. For one the bedrock of our reality is spacetime which works with probabilities, particles explore all possible paths at the same time. All possible outcomes of events is also explored and given enough time a possibility will be realized.
Simple amino acids, lipids, sugars, nucleobase and energy/water coming together is just a possibility that was given enough time to create more advanced structures. Nature is the reason.

If you want to introduce a supernatural human, besides being incredibly bias (wow, humans posit an infinite, super-powered person as the being behind the curtain??) you need evidence. There isn't any.
Have you noticed a universe where natural forces create planets with orbits, atmospheres ,weather, magnetic field, vast geology, or physics with relativity, 4 fundamental forces, Q. electrodynamics, Q. chromodynamics, antimatter, virtual particles, unceartainty principle, wave functions and so much more? All from an initial symmetrical state of high energy.

 

[joelr]

I believe describing anything with evolution is fantasy.

And some people believe the world is flat. So what. Demonstrate something about evolution is fantasy.

 

[joelr]

Actually, we broke the rock specifically for the task we wanted to use it for.

Human design can be very complex. Yet even we can't understand universal design. Not even close.

Gravity, electromagnetism, you cannot understand universal design, cosmologists can.

 

[PureX]

Your personal incredulity doesn't make something true. Because you cannot fathom the complexity of natural forces in physics, which extends up into other sciences doesn't mean it requires a deity.

I didn't say anything about a required deity. That's your bogeyman to deal with, not mine. I'm fine with the great transcendent mystery. I don't have to make any claims about it beyond the fact that it's logically necessary.

 

[PureX]

Gravity, electromagnetism, you cannot understand universal design, cosmologists can.

PFFFTT!

Niel Degrasse-Tyson would disagree with you very strongly about that.

 

[joelr]

I didn't say anything about a required deity. That's your bogeyman to deal with, not mine. I'm fine with the great transcendent mystery. I don't have to make any claims about it beyond the fact that it's logically necessary.

So you didn't say anything about a required deity, but then say it's logically necessary.

You don't have to make claims about a deity and then claim it's logically necessary.

A deity is not " logically necessary".

Sean Carroll - Why Fine-tuning Seems Designed​

It's only logically necessary when someone who already believes is seeking for a philosophy that supports the concept. Then they say "oh yeah it's necessary, obviously!" Ignoring all other arguments.

 

[joelr]

PFFFTT!

Niel Degrasse-Tyson would disagree with you very strongly about that.

He would not disagree about the universe being a natural process.

Intelligent Design is Stupid: Neil deGrasse Tyson​

 

[Valentina Kutleša]

I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?

Do you believe in silence? Do you believe the silence exists? Of course you do, but you can't hear it, see it or feel it. But there is silence. Undeniably. What can make you even think that God is working in possible ways, then he wouldn't even be God. He is the greatest spirit and creator of everything seen of unseen, but he can't be limited by human understandings because He Is, He Was and Always Will Be in everything and in us, so to understand God you need to be spiritualy open and believe. First of all start with the morals or reconnaissance of good and evil, where do these moral terms come from through all history of humankind. And there were people doing wrong, and evil, because they didn't develop the spirit or the voice of God and his love whose in all of us. More so, they were so weak to believe that the evil made them their tools for doing bad. But for e.g. when you see these evils and unfairness being done, you're disgusted by it, isn't it? Who planted that in every human from beginnings. Moreover, evil come from absence of good, which is absence of believing and absence of strenght to resist the "harder" way, we humans are easily deceived, being given the free will, our hearts are so corrupted that we freely let ourselves been manipulated in willing to have everything in "easier" way. It's a deceive. That's why we need God. To guide us.
Also God revealed himself through His Son, in human flesh and blood, Lord Jesus Christ, and there are evidences of his existence, eyewitnesses who saw him, stood by him and put it all down on paper so people could have "a proof". They crucified Him because they didn't believe. And they are still too weak because walking with God is "hard" , it requires carrying your "cross" like His Son did, and that's because evil is always lurking and you must fight and resist it, and fighting is never easy. These times especially are overwhelmed by the amount of evilness, so please don't search for the proof, for God's sake you are the proof, please believe and open your heart. Start reading Bible. God bless you!

 

[osgart]

There's also no evidence that a particular physical arrangement produces a living being that has identity, awareness, character qualities, will, etc. . If there were evidence then we could produce, and demonstrate the phenomena. It's all suggestion based on intuitions that a mechanism must exist.

Whether you believe in God, or physical materialism, poof it was created, or poof it emerged. No explanation has yet been demonstrated. No reasons forth coming as to why these phenomena occured in nature. It's all speculation.

Therefore it is logical, and rational to seek extra dimensional, non physical solutions to the problem. It's also rational to seek patterns in nature that give rise to life phenomena.

If life phenomena appear in nature, then it is logical to think that these phenomena may be eternal attributes of existence and may exist in else forms and/or else ways.

What does the word mechanism actually mean in terms of finding and explaining all life phenomena in purely physical terms? A purely physical explanation can never rule out a spiritual reality, and the debate between religion, philosophy, and science is in truth an endless one.

Life phenomena can be analyzed from introspection, and through consciousness humans are aware they exist. The phenomena appear to be abstract, unified, and highly organized according to function for usage when looking at it from a purely experiencial perspective.

So where's the exact connections between physics and life phenomena?

 

[Eli G]

(...) If life phenomena appear in nature, then it is logical to think that these phenomena may be eternal attributes of existence and may exist in else forms and/or else ways. (...)

And that infinite life has always been God.

We humans are just a small spark of that life... and that spark came out of that fire.

 

[joelr]

Do you believe in silence? Do you believe the silence exists? Of course you do, but you can't hear it, see it or feel it. But there is silence. Undeniably. What can make you even think that God is working in possible ways, then he wouldn't even be God. He is the greatest spirit and creator of everything seen of unseen, but he can't be limited by human understandings because He Is, He Was and Always Will Be in everything and in us, so to understand God you need to be spiritualy open and believe.

Then Allah can be real, so can Brahman and any version of God you want. Millions of Mormons are open spiritually, they open their heart, honestly and pray:
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.


and God tells then that the Mormon Bible is the only true word of God.

You are saying to believe in god you just need to believe. Circular logic and is used to believe every version is the one true version. Clearly a fallacy.

First of all start with the morals or reconnaissance of good and evil, where do these moral terms come from through all history of humankind. And there were people doing wrong, and evil, because they didn't develop the spirit or the voice of God and his love whose in all of us.

Morals come from evolution. The Nazis were Christian, the hundreds of Priests who molested children were religious. The Crusades were religious.
There are good people who are religious and secular or in different Eastern religions. So that doesn't hold as true at all.

More so, they were so weak to believe that the evil made them their tools for doing bad. But for e.g. when you see these evils and unfairness being done, you're disgusted by it, isn't it? Who planted that in every human from beginnings.

It's an evolutionary trait, we don't like seeing other people be harmed. Nature planted it. Not a deity. Please read the OT. "kill every living thing in all 6 cities or else they will corrupt you with (their religion)"
Plague that kills 70,000, for census
world is flooded, killing innocent babies

Moreover, evil come from absence of good, which is absence of believing and absence of strenght to resist the "harder" way, we humans are easily deceived,

Millions of secular people do plenty of good. Europe is largely secular. Humans are for sure easily decieved.

being given the free will, our hearts are so corrupted that we freely let ourselves been manipulated in willing to have everything in "easier" way. It's a deceive. That's why we need God. To guide us.

A stupid apologetic. Most secular folks just want to work, survive, be good people, learn their craft, give back to the world....don't believe everything you hear.

Free-will from God was originally in the Persian religion and the ideas fell into Judaism and Christianity during the 2nd Temple Period.

Freewill, choice


the basic Zoroastrian doctrine of the existence of free-will, and the power of each individual to shape his own destiny through the exercise of choice.

Also God revealed himself through His Son, in human flesh and blood, Lord Jesus Christ, and there are evidences of his existence,

There is no evidence. The Gospels all copy Mark which is written like mythology in several ways, non-eyewitness and anonymous, names added early 2nd century. The stories source Romulus, Greek religions, the Epistles, Homer and the OT. Jesus is an upgraded Elijah and Moses.

eyewitnesses who saw him, stood by him and put it all down on paper so people could have "a proof".

Yes, in the story, which is a myth.

They crucified Him because they didn't believe.

In the story. In real life if he was crucified (a Jewish Rabbi named Jesus) it would be because he broke a law.

And they are still too weak because walking with God is "hard" , it requires carrying your "cross" like His Son did, and that's because evil is always lurking and you must fight and resist it, and fighting is never easy. \\

Actually it is. You just work, shop, train, read, be a good person, learn, study, have friends, be good to people. It's not hard.

These times especially are overwhelmed by the amount of evilness, so please don't search for the proof, for God's sake you are the proof, please believe and open your heart. Start reading Bible. God bless you!

Right and Mormons say the same, Muslims say the same, Hindu say the same. Who needs proof, join a religion.
Opening your heart has nothing to do with what is actually true.

How about philosophy? Greek philosophy and literature, eastern and western philosophy? What about the Quran? They believe in God? You just call out for belief without proof but say the Bible? How about belief without proof for the Mormon Bible, Quran, Hindu scripture, Sikh scripture? Or is it just believe without proof what you believe?

You should not believe anything without reasonable evidence. This is how people come to believe anything and everything.
You can be a good person and hold a rational, skeptical methodology to truth and epistemology.

Christians say you are the proof of Christianity, Muslims say you are the proof of Islam and so on. That is a flawed methodology.




see Mormons do it as well:

"
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."

The Book of Moroni​

CHAPTER 10​

Moroni is the angel who gave revelations to J. Smith. He had to use a magic translator of course.

 

[an anarchist]

please don't search for the proof, for God's sake you are the proof, please believe and open your heart. Start reading Bible.

Bruuuh.

I don't wanna be rude, but...

This made my morning! LOL

Listen, I have read through the Bible. I believed the Bible for my first 20 years of life and was his soldier and everything. Even did a semester of Bible college. Sheesh I was a Sunday school teacher for like four years when I was a teenager. "Start reading the Bible" lady LOL. I probs know more than you. I know I know more than you because Christians are not taught the scholarly view of the Bible and it's hypothesized origins.

I'm willing to wager you are parroting your church when you say "please don't search for proof". Like, the level of brainwashing that has happened to you is immense when you are at that level. Analyze the statement "please don't search for truth". Really think about what you said. Is that how you arrive at truth? Is that what you want to base your core beliefs on, utter blindness?