There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[YoursTrue]

Where does the Bible say:

- that the earth will be perfect?
- that people will live forever on earth in harmony and peace and happiness?

Didn't your bab tell you that?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

OK, so we have that straight. If two people see an object on a table they can truthfully say they saw an object on the table. Just so it was not an illusion, which I can only imagine could happen but not in reality if they were in the room with the table and the object on the table, and they felt the objects. Now the thing is: can we take their word that there was an object on the table if we didn't see it ourselves.

You really don't seem to understand that in the tradition I am a part of belief and truth are not the same.
I am not going to go skeptic on that subject again, because last time as I recall you simply answer that you didn't in effect like it. Well, I don't like truth, so stop treating me as if I am like you.

 

[christos]

OK, so we have that straight. If two people see an object on a table they can truthfully say they saw an object on the table. Just so it was not an illusion, which I can only imagine could happen but not in reality if they were in the room with the table and the object on the table, and they felt the objects. Now the thing is: can we take their word that there was an object on the table if we didn't see it ourselves.

This was a point I made a while ago about what constitutes proof?
And whether ever increasing numbers of eyewitnesses and shared experience, equals a more reliable source

Technically… if 10,000 people saw the same object on the table and you asked, what was on the table, I didn’t see it and all 10,000 people say the same thing

It’s still up to the listener to decide, wether that’s true or not as it’s not their direct experience

Of course I personally think 10,000 people all in agreement is more compelling than 1 or 2 people

And it’s relevant for a range of things from, biblical stories to NDEs



I think in terms of law sometimes… I’m not a lawyer or anything

But I imagine evidence strength goes something like this, from weak to strong

Anecdote/eye witnesses
Photographs/Audio
Videos
DNA, Fingerprints and physical objects (that you can perform tests on)

 

[YoursTrue]

You really don't seem to understand that in the tradition I am a part of belief and truth are not the same.
I am not going to go skeptic on that subject again, because last time as I recall you simply answer that you didn't in effect like it. Well, I don't like truth, so stop treating me as if I am like you.

OK, thank you for your answers. I won't continue except to say the following: that when Pilate was interrogating Jesus.

"37“You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
38“What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him. 39But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”
(John 18)

 

[jimb]

The premise of the OP is simply wrong!

"There is no evidence for God..." should be applied only to the author's ability to see it.

There is evidence! Romans 1:20a, "Ever since the creation of the world God’s eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been seen and understood through the things God has made."

Since the Bible -- God's word -- clearly says that evidence exists, IMHO there is no further need for debate.

 

[jimb]

You really don't seem to understand that in the tradition I am a part of belief and truth are not the same.
I am not going to go skeptic on that subject again, because last time as I recall you simply answer that you didn't in effect like it. Well, I don't like truth, so stop treating me as if I am like you.

Really? You don't like truth? What do you prefer instead? Lies?

 

[YoursTrue]

This was a point I made a while ago about what constitutes proof?
And whether ever increasing numbers of eyewitnesses and shared experience, equals a more reliable source

Technically… if 10,000 people saw the same object on the table and you asked, what was on the table, I didn’t see it and all 10,000 people say the same thing

It’s still up to the listener to decide, wether that’s true or not as it’s not their direct experience

Of course I personally think 10,000 people all in agreement is more compelling than 1 or 2 people

And it’s relevant for a range of things from, biblical stories to NDEs



I think in terms of law sometimes… I’m not a lawyer or anything

But I imagine evidence strength goes something like this, from weak to strong

Anecdote/eye witnesses
Photographs/Audio
Videos
DNA, Fingerprints and physical objects (that you can perform tests on)

I kind of ended my query with John 18, where Jesus spoke to Pilate before his execution. Especially in this context, Jesus words to Pilate are interesting -- Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” And how did Pilate answer?
“What is truth?” retorted Pilate.
Now if light bends, that whole conversation with Pilate is mind-bending...
Take care.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

OK, thank you for your answers. I won't continue except to say the following: that when Pilate was interrogating Jesus.

"37“You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
38“What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him. 39But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”
(John 18)

Yeah, that is not of my faith and belief. But I accept it is of yours.

 

[YoursTrue]

The premise of the OP is simply wrong!

"There is no evidence for God..." should be applied only to the author's ability to see it.

There is evidence! Romans 1:20a, "Ever since the creation of the world God’s eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been seen and understood through the things God has made."

Since the Bible -- God's word -- clearly says that evidence exists, IMHO there is no further need for debate.

That's kinda like what Jesus said to Pilate at John 18, glad I went over it again in these contexts about truth...
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

38“What is truth?” retorted Pilate.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Really? You don't like truth? What do you prefer instead? Lies?

I am a global strong skeptic. Truth to me is an idea, that I don't need to believe in to have a life.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yeah, that is not of my faith and belief. But I accept it is of yours.

There's more to it, but I'll leave that alone for now...

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There's more to it, but I'll leave that alone for now...

Yeah, and there is more to skepticism, but I'll leave that alone for now...

 

[jimb]

Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life." John 14:6a That settles it for me.

 

[YoursTrue]

The premise of the OP is simply wrong!

"There is no evidence for God..." should be applied only to the author's ability to see it.

There is evidence! Romans 1:20a, "Ever since the creation of the world God’s eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been seen and understood through the things God has made."

Since the Bible -- God's word -- clearly says that evidence exists, IMHO there is no further need for debate.

Jesus surely did not go into a debate with Pilate about truth. And what he said to Pilate really impresses me. Take care, hope you have a good day, jimb.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life." John 14:6a That settles it for me.

Well, that is not my faith and belief. So it doesn't settle it for me.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yeah, and there is more to skepticism, but I'll leave that alone for now...

I understand. However, what Jesus said settles in me.

 

[Trailblazer]

Didn't your bab tell you that?

The Revelation came from Baha'u'llah, not the Bab. The Bab was only the forerunner who came to announce the coming of Baha'u'llah.

No, Baha'u'llah did not tell us that:

- that the earth will be perfect?
- that people will live forever on earth in harmony and peace and happiness?

He told us that the world will be better and that there will be a new race of men who are more spiritual, but this physical world will never be perfect. There will always be the problems that come with life in a physical world, like accidents, diseases, and death.

He told us that people who are living on earth after the new earth is built will live on earth in harmony and peace and happiness, but he did not tell us that anyone who has already died will come back and live on the new earth.

 

[Balthazzar]

I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?

The way I see it, there is nothing but evidence for God. Why do I believe? I view everything as God, consisting of God's own substance. There's is nothing existing that isn't God. That's why I believe.

 

[Audie]

The way I see it, there is nothing but evidence for God. Why do I believe? I view everything as God, consisting of God's own substance. There's is nothing existing that isn't God. That's why I believe.

So you believe in the universe.

 

[Balthazzar]

So you believe in the universe.

It amounts to that, specifically, yes.

Resident Pantheist/Panentheist, here. The only requirement of belief in this view, is that the universe equates to God. Otherwise, it's abundantly evident.