There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Sheldon]

Didn’t you post the Origin of the Universe by NASA

This was your claim, below it is my response, I fail to see what you're missing here? If you think that claim reflects NASA'a understanding of the origins of the universe, by all means quote it, but we both know you made this embarrassing nonsense up.

there was light then miraculously from that explosion a life form

Not even remotely a scientific claim.

As I said, your claim which you pretended was a scientific one, is not even remotely a scientific claim.

 

[joelr]

Your diagnostic tools are faulty and for sure you must not know what confirmation bias is, seems to be a mantra for unbelievers.

Yes I am familiar with confirmation bias? You are not having an actual conversation, no sounds, you can't see spirits? It's in your mind. Does every single request happen? Probably not. Did you pray for the war to end? For 2 million Chinese to not have to literally starve to death during the crazy lockdown? That's still happening. So how do you reconcile that? You say, God will end it in his time or God has better plans. Then when something finally works out you say "wow thank you God!". That is confirmation bais.
Meanwhile Islamic folks are saying the same prayers and then they say "Wow Allahh is wise" and Krishna was wise to wait".
Confirmation bias.

Since you decided to call me out, now I'm saying, prove it. You can now tell Jesus that you need to stand up for his presence, y'know since you have a relationship with him, and that you must show these "unbelievers". that you really do have a relationship. So please ask him what does he want to use to show us unbelievers that he is real. I am open to evidence.
I also have an 8 digit number or a 14 digit number from pi that he can give to you and that will be excellent evidence.

Here is an easy one. Ask Jesus my favorite Christian music song. I'm glad I found someone with an actual relationship. Not like those other christians. You actually said "born again"!

 

[Wildswanderer]

No scientific theory or fact currently fully understands the origins of organic life,

Exactly...so who cares about point A to point B? It's irrelevant if we don't know why we exist.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No born again Christians do not have a higher mortality rate with disease. Older Christians who "pray properly" do not have a longer life expectance or beat statistics on disease mortality rates.

You really don’t understand prayer, seems you equate God as a Genie. Older Christians when they die are still living, they have eternal life, not so with unbelievers. Big difference, believers that die have run their race down here on earth, have passed the baton to the next generation, their work is done here.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don't care how life evolved if you can't explain why there is life.

You can't explain "why," either. Just saying, "because God..." says nothing meaningful to you.

 

[joelr]

Your diagnostic tools are faulty and for sure you must not know what confirmation bias is, seems to be a mantra for unbelievers.

Also, one could you explain which diagnostic tools are faulty and how so?

Second, when Muslims and Hindu say they have a relationship with Allah/Krishna. and they have conversations and get prayers answered do you consider that to be confirmation bias? Or is Allah and Krishna also real?
Because I explicitly explained that it's not just Christians but also Islam and Hinduism but you didn't comment? So when they make that claim is it confirmation bias? If not then you believe Krishna is also answering prayer. If it is CB then my diagnostic isn't faulty.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The way to learn about where life came from is to more fully understand where it is now first. So learning about point A to point B is the first step to learning how and why it arose.

That is completely backwards. I don't care how my car was assembled, I only want to know that it does what its supposed to do, run. "Here we have a perfectly fine automobile, sir, the only thing it doesn't do is go." Why? "Well, we don't know that! That's not important! Look how well it's put together though!"

 

[Wildswanderer]

You can't explain "why," either. Just saying, "because God..." says nothing meaningful to you.

It's everything that gives life meaning..if we are just accidentally created, meaning doesn't exist. And some atheists are honest enough to admit that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not really. You would be more accurate to say we have theories about both. But again, who cares about point A to point B if we don't even know where life came from?

That is an incredibly poor argument. It is akin to saying we can't convict a murderer if we do not know what he had for breakfast a month ago. It makes no sense.

 

[Sheldon]

Scientists have confidence in our understanding of dark matter precisely to the degree it can be tested.

Can you test it? Have you?

So you do not have confidence Dark Matter exist.
Okay, so is there any evidence of Dark Matter? Or is there no evidence of Dark Matter?

Are you trying to set a record for false dichotomy fallacies? Imagine a scale starting and zero and increasing, now try to imagine one's position of confidence in an idea somewhere along that scale, ad then try and grasp that in science this position would reflect the amount of objective evidence and science's ability to accurately test the idea, and how accurately the result reflected prediction based on the idea being correct. Reducing it to either or is as irrational as it is an absurd misrepresentation of the methods involved.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is completely backwards. I don't care how my car was assembled, I only want to know that it does what its supposed to do, run. "Here we have a perfectly fine automobile, sir, the only thing it doesn't do is go." Why? "Well, we don't know that! That's not important! Look how well it's put together though!"

Another failed analogy. We know it runs. We do not know which plant it was built in. Does that make a difference?

 

[Polymath257]

You really don’t understand prayer, seems you equate God as a Genie. Older Christians when they die are still living, they have eternal life, not so with unbelievers. Big difference, believers that die have run their race down here on earth, have passed the baton to the next generation, their work is done here.

Prove it. Give evidence that this is actually the case. Not just claims, but actual evidence that can be tested.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's everything that gives life meaning..if we are just accidentally created, meaning doesn't exist. And some atheists are honest enough to admit that.

Wrong again. How does that "give life meaning"?

 

[joelr]

You really don’t understand prayer, seems you equate God as a Genie. Older Christians when they die are still living, they have eternal life, not so with unbelievers. Big difference, believers that die have run their race down here on earth, have passed the baton to the next generation, their work is done here.

Yes I understand prayer. People pray to Krishna and believe they have a relationship with him. Is that correct? So it's the same for Christians? I ask again, do you see spirits, hear their voices, can you take pictures and audio recording if so?
If not I am pretty sure this is in your head. If I pretend I'm talking to Thor I actually feel like someone is listening. The brain works this way.

HEaven is not a place for humans in Judaism. Not for over 1000 years were Jews told by Yahweh they would go to heaven. Then suddenly during the Persian/Greek occupation (the Greeks did already have that myth about souls being redeemed and getting to heaven), suddenly the Jewish folks start writing it into their religion as well. After living with the Persians and Greeks for 3 centuries. It begins to influence their beliefs. Wow, what a coincidence. Yahweh never mentioned that? They learned it from the Greeks? Wow, could this all be just another mythology? Did the church that pulled you in teach you the actual history of the religion? Did they have you read Ehrman, Pagels, Sanders, Carrier, Thopson, Purvoe, Goodacre? Or did they just tell you stuff and you believed it?


Second Temple Judaism
During the period of the Second Temple (c. 515 BC – 70 AD), the Hebrew people lived under the rule of first the Persian Achaemenid Empire, then the Greek kingdoms of the Diadochi, and finally the Roman Empire.[47] Their culture was profoundly influenced by those of the peoples who ruled them.[47] Consequently, their views on existence after death were profoundly shaped by the ideas of the Persians, Greeks, and Romans.[48][49] The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[49] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is derived from Persian cosmology.[49] By the early first century AD, these two seemingly incompatible ideas were often conflated by Hebrew thinkers.[49] The Hebrews also inherited from the Persians, Greeks, and Romans the idea that the human soul originates in the divine realm and seeks to return there.[47] The idea that a human soul belongs in Heaven and that Earth is merely a temporary abode in which the soul is tested to prove its worthiness became increasingly popular during the Hellenistic period (323 – 31 BC).[40] Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead.




"Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead."

Yeah, heaven is a Greek myth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I understand the concepts of both.

Really? Then you know that there is endless evidence for evolution and none against it and abundant evidence for abiogenesis and none against it either.

So why believe something else?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Prove it. Give evidence that this is actually the case. Not just claims, but actual evidence that can be tested.

Like what exactly, a testimony or prayer for you?

 

[Polymath257]

That is completely backwards. I don't care how my car was assembled, I only want to know that it does what its supposed to do, run. "Here we have a perfectly fine automobile, sir, the only thing it doesn't do is go." Why? "Well, we don't know that! That's not important! Look how well it's put together though!"

Humans designed automobiles for a reason: to transport things.

And they figured out how to put things together to get that goal. But all those components were tested independently *first* and then assembled.

You have to understand 'how' before it can be made. We knew the 'why' because we were the ones that decided what needed to be done.

Now, in the case of life, we *know* it works: it grows and reproduces. the first question is then *how* does it manage to do that. Over the course of the last century, we have learned in detail how life does what it does chemically. And it *is* a complex collection of chemical processes.

To ask where it came from is to ask how that complicated collection of chemical processes started to function. That involves understanding the chemistry not just of the present processes of life, but also the chemistry that can *lead* to those processes. This is the stage we are exploring currently: we are trying to understand the chemistry that can lead to the complicated processes involved in life.

This is the study of where life 'came from': by what mechanism did it arise. What conditions were required for it to begin? how did the variety of different chemical processes that we know *is life* begin and become integrated together?

So, once again, we *know* life is a complex collection of chemical processes. We *know* hat the original chemistry is not the same as the chemistry involved now. We are *investigating* the chemistry involved that *could* be a precursor to processes involved in life.

And we do not have all of the answer yet. But we know where to look and what sort of questions to ask.

 

[Polymath257]

Like what exactly, a testimony or prayer for you?

No, that is not evidence. That is anecdote. Give me actual measurements that show a difference when God intervenes versus when He doesn't. Give me a way to clearly tell which is which reliably. Evidence of a sort that would convince a skeptic that there is something going on that needs to be explained.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Precisely, we know natural processes are possible, but we have zero objective evidence that unexplained magic, or anything supernatural is possible. We may not know how organic life originated, but there is no reason whatsoever to imagine it involved inexplicable magic, and if it did we will never know, since magic is inexplicable by definition.

One "problem" with abiogenesis is that there are multiple paths that could have been followed to solve one particular phase. For chirality to occur was originally an unknown and now there is more than one known way. Which one was it? The same with where did the amino acids come from, the first problem "solved" in abiogenesis. The original solution may be wrong, not because it doesn't work but because we found other possible sources.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No, that is not evidence. That is anecdote. Give me actual measurements that show a difference when God intervenes versus when He doesn't. Give me a way to clearly tell which is which reliably. Evidence of a sort that would convince a skeptic that there is something going on that needs to be explained.

Let’s see, before I met God debt, wrecked cars, over due bills, in trouble with the law, worry, pain, sexual disease, unwanted pregnancy, theft, isolation from society.
After prayer and God’s deliverance, peace, purpose, success in life, marriage, health, relationships restored, provision for family of 16, 25 years of marriage, Eternal Life, Hope, Contentment.

If this is a matter of a trick of psychology or just try harder and tough it out then go ahead and try, but I found that when God intervenes some is effortless, some isn’t but He gives supernatural power to overcome.