There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[mikkel_the_dane]

What do you make of all the people who asked God for this, but didn't receive it? Do we just ignore them when we're evaluating these claims?

Or those of us, who can't tell if it is God or Satan?

 

[Firelight]

Well, we are in debate, so we can debate knowledge, belief and what not. Don't tell me what to debate within the forum rules.

Don’t tell me what I believe. That isn’t debate. Do it again, you go on ignore.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Don’t tell me what I believe. That isn’t debate. Do it again, you go on ignore.

You're in the "General Religious Debates" Forum.

 

[InChrist]

I know what point you tried to make. You can't have it both ways, if the people that asked for help and got it is evidence for your God then those that did not get help are evidence against it.

I’m not trying to have it both ways. I am saying there is only one way to know God. From my perspective, experience and what’s revealed in the scriptures I see that God desires people come directly to Him because it’s about more than evidence. It involves relationship with our Creator; which is the ultimate purpose for our existence.

 

[Firelight]

You're in the "General Religious Debates" Forum.

So? Debate isn’t about anyone telling me what I believe.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Don’t tell me what I believe. That isn’t debate. Do it again, you go on ignore.

Then put me on ignore. We are in debate as this is a sub-forum for debate, so that is not up for debate, because that is settled by the forum management.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So? Debate isn’t about anyone telling me what I believe.

Well, yes. We debate what it means to say "I don't believe" or "I believe".

 

[Wildswanderer]

You are not thinking very clearly. Which probably accounts for imprecise verbiage. What you said is that "Life begets life". No one disputes that. There for it is irrelevant. What is under dispute is your actual position that only life results in life. Which you have utterly failed to demonstrate. Do you even know what life is? Do you?

Ok, demonstrate life coming from something that's not alive... and no nonsense about food or compost...we know that in every case the seed of life is required prior to nourishment.

 

[Firelight]

You're aware that you're on a debate forum, right?

Yep. I said what I wanted. My comment is debate just as much as the comment made to me.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Food is the material from which you are formed. If you don't eat, you will die.

So what...that has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[Wildswanderer]

And the material from that *non-living* food *becomes* the material in the *living* body.

So the non-living material in the food becomes the living material in the body.

Now, that process *uses* the living body to organize the *non-living material* into *living material*.

But there is no different between a sugar molecule in a living body and a sugar molecule that isn't. There is no difference between DNA that is in a test tube (and so not alive) and DNA that is in a living body.

NONE of the molecules in your body are alive. So *you* are made of non-living materials.

The difference between living and non-living materials isn't composition: it is organization. it is access to the chemical potential of oxygen.

Hogwash.. every one of your cells is alive. And you are still dancing around the issue.

 

[Wildswanderer]

And chemicals combining to form life is not life creating itself either.

Only it's never happened that we know of. And the odds against it make it impossible.

 

[InChrist]

What do you make of all the people who asked God for this, but didn't receive it? Do we just ignore them when we're evaluating these claims?

No, we don’t ignore them, but we may consider asking further questions. Such as; did God actually “not answer “? Or was His answer different or not the answer expected or desired? What if God in His position of being All-knowing, All-wise, and a God of Love ( as the scriptures state ) has a different plan, direction, or better answer than the limited perspective of the one praying who thought they didn’t get an answer? What if the person praying is so focused on the specific answer they desire that they miss the answer God does give?

 

[Polymath257]

Hogwash.. every one of your cells is alive. And you are still dancing around the issue.

Yes. And they grow by consuming food that is not alive.

You are dancing around the issue that it isn't composition that determines life, but rather organization.

So the question on the origin of life is whether that organization can occur spontaneously.

 

[Polymath257]

So what...that has nothing to do with the topic.

The point is that the food you eat is not alive and it becomes you, which is.

The nonliving food becomes the living tissues.

 

[Polymath257]

Only it's never happened that we know of. And the odds against it make it impossible.

None of the chemicals that make you up are alive. But together, they are alive.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Once you have some reactions at the right level of complexity

You might want to specify just how complex we are talking here.

DNA needs enzymes to replicate, but the enzymes are encoded by DNA. DNA needs protection provided by the cell wall, but the cell wall is also encoded by the DNA. You can't there from here...

We have been studying DNA for a long time and still don't completely understand it, but you want us to believe it formed from some primoral soup of random chemicals all by itself.
And DNA is just the beginning of the problem.

 

[Polymath257]

So what...that has nothing to do with the topic.

Here's a thing to ponder: at what point does the nonliving food become alive?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Then I'd have to say the Bible is wrong on that claim.

Well, I would say in some instances, the correct moral action would be to tell a lie. Like if you were hiding Anne Frank in your attic and the Nazis showed up at your door looking for her.

Well we aren’t talking about that as you well know, I hope. Why aren’t we 100% in executing what we know is the right thing to do?

 

[SkepticThinker]

So what...that has nothing to do with the topic.

It has everything to do with the topic.