There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[ElishaElijah]

I have done these things because I am human and sometimes ignorant, self-concerned, etc. But again, I don't need a God to tell me those are bad things. I just need to be stronger.

I generally don't get drunk: I don't like the feeling or the consequences, and I have learned.

I am generally not irresponsible: I fulfill my promises because I understand other people depend on me.

I usually don't envy. My life is good and I don't worry about what other people are doing too much.

I try to treat people with respect and honesty.

I don't need a God to tell me to do so. They are pretty obvious if you think about them a bit.

Good job, great way to be. Although the Bible describes that we cannot do the good we want to do due to sin taking advantage, I found this to be true or else we should be 100%. We know we shouldn’t lie or be dishonest yet if we do anyway why is that, if this is not the case? You should be able to be in complete control of yourself all the time but we are not.

 

[Firelight]

You mean, you believe that God knows. Okay.

Don’t tell me what I believe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And you saying the Bible can’t be used as evidence is just your opinion, it can be used and people will be held accountable at the last court appearance for it.

No, that is the way that evidence works. One must have a reliable source. It is not our opinion, it is a fact that if you want to claim it as "evidence" that means that you need to be able to show that it is accurate. And if you fail at that task then you fail at showing that the Bible is evidence.

 

[InChrist]

I doubt if God said that. The Bible, a book written by men, claims that God said that. Yet when we try to do this there is ever any reason or any response at all from him.

I don’t doubt God said that or that the scriptures were inspired by God and therefore are His words. I also know there are millions and millions around the world and throughout history to the present who have sought to know God, His existence, seeking His guidance, wisdom, that have found the evidence they needed and reasons to believe.

 

[Firelight]

And that alone shows you have not studied the history of your own beliefs.

And it matters to you, why?
It matters not to me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don’t doubt God said that or that the scriptures were inspired by God and therefore are His words. I also know there are millions and millions around the world and throughout history to the present who have sought to know God, His existence, seeking His guidance, wisdom, that have found the evidence they needed and reasons to believe.

Okay, fine. That is your belief. How do you show that the Bible is what you believe that it is? An argument ad populum for the Bible does not work, it is a logical fallacy. Two thirds of the world's population does not believe the Bible, does that disprove it? If it doesn't why did you even bring up how many believe it? Your sort of argument leads to disproving the Bible not supporting it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And it matters to you, why?

One cannot fully understand one's beliefs if one does not know the history of one's beliefs.

 

[InChrist]

If there is no evidence for Captain America's existence, I wonder why he says "Avengers assemble!"?

And yet, he hasn't.

And yet, millions ask and seek, yet receive and find nothing (cue: No True Scotsman fallacy).

Have you never wondered why god bothers to answer the prayers of the person taking an exam (even though they didn't need his help because they had revised anyway), yet refuses to answer the prayer of the parents of a child dying in agony? What kind of a twisted sociopath would do that?

Millions and millions throughout history have asked and received answers and guidance. Do you discount them? Who are you to say or understand how an infinite God answers human prayers? Are you saying that God must answer according to human expectations or demands? If God doesn’t answer the way we want, does that somehow prove He didn’t answer?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Millions and millions throughout history have asked and received answers and guidance. Do you discount them? Who are you to say or understand how an infinite God answers human prayers? Are you saying that God must answer according to human expectations or demands? If God doesn’t answer the way we want, does that somehow prove He didn’t answer?

Yes, just as we discount the similar claims of many other religions. Christians have a plurality, but they are not a majority. That means that more people believe something else than believe Christianity. An argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy and a bad idea when one is outnumbered by the opposition.

 

[InChrist]

Okay, fine. That is your belief. How do you show that the Bible is what you believe that it is? An argument ad populum for the Bible does not work, it is a logical fallacy. Two thirds of the world's population does not believe the Bible, does that disprove it? If it doesn't why did you even bring up how many believe it? Your sort of argument leads to disproving the Bible not supporting it.

I brought it up because you said God does not answer. Yet, there are plenty of people who claim He does and whose lives have been changed for the better because God hears, responds, and cares. The point is that God desires each person to come directly to Him.

 

[InChrist]

Yes, just as we discount the similar claims of many other religions. Christians have a plurality, but they are not a majority. That means that more people believe something else than believe Christianity. An argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy and a bad idea when one is outnumbered by the opposition.

You are right, it’s not about numbers or majority. That wasn’t my point.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I brought it up because you said God does not answer. Yet, there are plenty of people who claim He does and whose lives have been changed for the better because God hears, responds, and cares. The point is that God desires each person to come directly to Him.

There are definitely even more that say he doesn't answer. In other words by that sort of logic he does not exist. It is a very bad argument for your beliefs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are right, it’s not about numbers or majority. That wasn’t my point.

I know what point you tried to make. You can't have it both ways, if the people that asked for help and got it is evidence for your God then those that did not get help are evidence against it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Don’t tell me what I believe.

Well, we are in debate, so we can debate knowledge, belief and what not. Don't tell me what to debate within the forum rules.

 

[ElishaElijah]

If you are talking about the gospels, they do not even claim to be eyewitness testimony. You are just making that up. Hell, the anonymous author of Luke even says that he or she is not an eyewitness. Read your Bible.

Here is one of many:
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭1:1-5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Here is one of many:
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭1:1-5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Yeah, that is hearsay to us. Someone says it and we hear it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Good job, great way to be. Although the Bible describes that we cannot do the good we want to do due to sin taking advantage, I found this to be true or else we should be 100%

Then I'd have to say the Bible is wrong on that claim.

. We know we shouldn’t lie or be dishonest yet if we do anyway why is that, if this is not the case? You should be able to be in complete control of yourself all the time but we are not.

Well, I would say in some instances, the correct moral action would be to tell a lie. Like if you were hiding Anne Frank in your attic and the Nazis showed up at your door looking for her.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And it matters to you, why?
It matters not to me.

You're aware that you're on a debate forum, right?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...

Well, I would say in some instances, the correct moral action would be to tell a lie. Like if you were hiding Anne Frank in your attic and the Nazis showed up at your door looking for her.

Ah, Kant and the categorical imperative or not. That is a fun one. In some cases there is a 3rd option, which Kant overlooked.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I brought it up because you said God does not answer. Yet, there are plenty of people who claim He does and whose lives have been changed for the better because God hears, responds, and cares. The point is that God desires each person to come directly to Him.

What do you make of all the people who asked God for this, but didn't receive it? Do we just ignore them when we're evaluating these claims?