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There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Is that supposed to be a response? Your Bible says? Yes, every religion sys there will be people who don't buy it because they know they are writing a fabricated story. That is non-sequitur.

For you it may be. For me, the words that are written are spirit and life.

This however, is. It's also incorrect. Your position has been shown evidence against it.
1) Mystical experiences happen to people in all religions and cults. One happened to Sam Harris, atheist writer and neuroscientist when he studies Hinduism and meditation.
So the religion the person is in will be the position they relate the experience with.

This doesn't do a thing for you but rather supports my position. Who said these religions and cults didn't tap into the spiritual realm?

Thank you for the support :)

Controlled laboratory studies show that under double-blind conditions that provide significant controls for expectancy bias, psilocybin can occasion complete mystical experiences in the majority of people studied. These effects are dose-dependent, specific to psilocybin compared to placebo or a psychoactive control substance, and have enduring impact on the moods, attitudes, and behaviors of participants as assessed by self-report of participants and ratings by community observers.

Again, how does this support your position? The very word "witchcraft" has the root word where we get "pharmaceutical" from. Though Christianity's position is to avoid that because there are evil spirits, it still can be spiritual.

And again, thank you for the supportive documentation

Definitely a red herring. Science doesn't know everything, therefore God. Hilarious. And red. And a herring.

The more science learns doesn't mean it's going to find Lord Krishna is real. Or any typical Near Eastern deity. Or any deity.

Now your link. That was predictable. So a biochemist reads Acts and finds he was "sure this was nothing anyone made up". A biochemist.
Yet EVERY historical scholar in the field who is an expert at literary analysis, intertextuality and so on says Acts is the most fictive and borrows the most from literary models and works of anything.

LOL... Is that what you understood? You need to reread what I said. I didn't say that.

The Mystery of Acts: Unraveling Its Story​

by Richard I. Pervo

In February 2001, Pervo was arrested after investigators found thousands of images of child pornography on his work computer at the University of Minnesota.[12] In May he pleaded guilty to five counts of possession and one count of distribution of child pornography. He was sentenced to one year in a state workhouse and eight years probation.[13][14] He formally resigned from the University of Minnesota as of June 2001, having been suspended since his arrest.[15] After serving his sentence he continued to publish theological works as an independent scholar and Fellow of the Westar Institute,[2] and was recognized as an authority on the canonical and non-canonical books of Acts.[16]

It has already been established that the information (boat names, distances, location et al) are correct by innumerable scholars. - you can't just pick the ones that agree with you.

Your author leaves much to be desired both in character and in substance
This cannot get you to Zeus, Krishna or Yahweh. But I don't see a convincing argument for a deism.

It isn't in question that people can work together. The question is can you make any sense out of the idea.

Billions of people do make sense out of the idea... you are in a small group that don't

Are you actually going to suggest that these 10,000 children who die from starvation are not victims?

The victims mentality is buying into a narrative about life after death, with no evidence, clearly syncretic from older religions, also made up, and blocking out clear evidence it isn't true because you already put blocks up and will not see evidence against it and will employ irrational apologetics to defend it.

But now I'm curious, every time someone points out a tragic case of immense human suffering do you tell them they have the victim mentality?
This is a theological argument about the problem of evil and suffering which goes way back. The answer is not to tell your opponent they have a "victim mentality", that much is for sure.

Please demonstrate this isn't a perfect example of natural probabilities playing out because nature is not conscious and nothing watching over life is nor can it help out. If it could and it isn't then it's evil. That is the question, not am I having a "mentality"?

Again, I'm not sure how your mind twists what I said. If children are starving, look to mankind and not God. God has provided

Jesus came and healed, delivered, fed, saved et al. He is the perfect will of God. Now, that mankind does nothing to alleviate things and instead, for personal gain, causes wars, famine and suffering... the Genesis is their lack of union with God


Who I'm helping or not doesn't advance this argument forward or backward in any way. weird that you are even asking me and you believe in a theistic God? You c
Just wanting to make sure that you don't complain and do nothing
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Is there any position that I cannot take on faith?

Islam, Hinduism, white supremacy, gender superiority?

Faith is not a reliable path to truth.
In your understanding. (although I support your position to believe otherwise... by faith) ;)

For us, faith is a spiritual law that is necessary to operate spiritually. It has its components that activate capacity that belongs to God.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes I blame men. I'm not talking about that. These are dictates from Yahweh to kill and take plunder of women and children.







How do you know a God helped you? As an atheist I have had many goals manifest, jobs, relationships, chance meetings, one door closes and a better door opens, these things happen when you aim in a direction and take action. If one believes in a deity then all the credit goes there.

So he's helping you with things, and 25,000 people die every day from starvation? I would be pissed if a God helped me with some trivial thing while 10,000 children are not getting to grow up.
Take care enjoy whatever there is to enjoy.
 

Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
Perfect.

So, first please tell me knowledge that you got that you could not have obtained. Not an opinion or something subjective because that could simply come from your subconscious mind. Actual facts you did not know and are unavailable otherwise.

Then, since you have revelations, I have a 14 digit number written down. I also have one word written down, please ask for the 14 digits and the one word and tell me what they are.


Now If I claimed Krishna was real, and I offered my proof was revelation, I'm sure you would find it to be anecdotal, likely nonsense. Unless you use it to provide evidence you could not have known.

Solutions to issues, wisdom, those are anecdotal, information you likely have in your mind and picked a solution and attributed it to a deity.
So anecdotal tales are not evidence. The 14 digit number and word would be best for evidence.

I have a feeling your mind just decided on common solutions to issues, things you already knew were options or knew about. Then you attributed it to an outside deity and applied it to your life. You probably picked the best option and it worked. Because that is generally how life works.
Until it doesn't and you say "God has other plans for me"..

Not impressive. Not evidence.
You ask me for something specific God has revealed to me.

Before allowing me to respond you then demand that I ask God to reveal to me something trivial (a 14-digit number you have written down).

Before allowing me to respond to the first request and the subsequent demand you go on to rule out pretty much anything I would have shared in response to the first request, pigeonholing the matter onto whether or not God will reveal to me the 14-digit number you wrote down. IE, that's the evidence you want.

Before allowing me to respond to any of that you conclude that anything I would have shared in response to the first request was actually just my own thinking and best judgment at work, except in those cases when it didn't go the way I wanted, and that nothing of it was of divine origin, but had merely been ascribed to God by me.

Before allowing me to respond to any of that you conclude that what I have offered in response to your request and demand and reasoning (I have offered nothing) is "not impressive" and "not evidence."

I agree. "Nothing" is not impressive. "Nothing" is not evidence.
 
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Comi

New Member
I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?
Why do you believe in history people William Shakespeare, ISSAC newton, ice age people when we have never seen nor in tv nor their voice. But we have proof, their creation the book the art the knowledge. Its same thing, the religion book.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You ask me for something specific God has revealed to me.

Before allowing me to respond you then demand that I ask God to reveal to me something trivial (a 14-digit number you have written down).

Before allowing me to respond to the first request and the subsequent demand you go on to rule out pretty much anything I would have shared in response to the first request, pigeonholing the matter onto whether or not God will reveal to me the 14-digit number you wrote down. IE, that's the evidence you want.

Before allowing me to respond to any of that you conclude that anything I would have shared in response to the first request was actually just my own thinking and best judgment at work, except in those cases when it didn't go the way I wanted, and that nothing of it was of divine origin, but had merely been ascribed to God by me.

Before allowing me to respond to any of that you conclude that what I have offered in response to your request and demand and reasoning (I have offered nothing) is "not impressive" and "not evidence."

I agree. "Nothing" is not impressive. "Nothing" is not evidence.
Every time I see something like this. I think of the apostle Paul's experience and his relating it to others. Obviously not everyone agreed with him and neither do they today. I do. I didn't have an experience like his, but I had my experience that made me realize God is there, He is watching, He is listening. And I am thankful.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Baha'u'llah wasn't modern enough to realize Satan is a complete mythological character.
Baha'u'llah knew that Satan was not real.

When He said "the Evil One is lying in wait, ready to entrap you. Gird yourselves against his wicked devices, and, led by the light of the name of the All-Seeing God, make your escape from the darkness that surroundeth you. Let your vision be world-embracing, rather than confined to your own self. The Evil One is he that hindereth the rise and obstructeth the spiritual progress of the children of men.”

He was not referring to an actual entity called Satan.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Why do you believe in history people William Shakespeare, ISSAC newton, ice age people when we have never seen nor in tv nor their voice. But we have proof, their creation the book the art the knowledge. Its same thing, the religion book.
When it comes to Shakespeare we have his works. We have the works of his contemporaries. the same applies to Newton. For ice age people we have evidence. For evolution we have tons of evidence.

The Bible on the other hand is a mostly anonymously written book that has little to no supporting evidence with all sorts of evidence against it. It has no "proof" all that is has are mostly failed claims.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I have been Christian in the past. I did pray. Some things work out and others don't. Nothing changed when I stopped. Some things work out and some don't. Some coincidences happen because you are aimed in a direction. That is normal. No deity is doing anything.

If I prayed I would say do not dare help me, an adult, help some children live to be able to grow up. But again, disease stats don't change, the same amount of expected deaths happen every year with each illness. So nothing is helping. Probabilities are just playing out.
I believe strongly that if a person recognizes there is a God, God will rectify all injustices and ill ltreatment in the future. There are such terrible things going on and He permits these to take place, but there will be a final end to these in the future. Replaced by a happy life for all. Revelation 21:1-5. Yes, I believe that.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I believe strongly that if a person recognizes there is a God, God will rectify all injustices and ill ltreatment in the future. There are such terrible things going on and He permits these to take place, but there will be a final end to these in the future. Replaced by a happy life for all. Revelation 21:1-5. Yes, I believe that.


I strongly believe that if there is a God that it will switch your underwear drawer for your sock drawer.
 

Comi

New Member
When it comes to Shakespeare we have his works. We have the works of his contemporaries. the same applies to Newton. For ice age people we have evidence. For evolution we have tons of evidence.

The Bible on the other hand is a mostly anonymously written book that has little to no supporting evidence with all sorts of evidence against it. It has no "proof" all that is has are mostly failed claims
 

Comi

New Member
When it comes to Shakespeare we have his works. We have the works of his contemporaries. the same applies to Newton. For ice age people we have evidence. For evolution we have tons of evidence.

The Bible on the other hand is a mostly anonymously written book that has little to no supporting evidence with all sorts of evidence against it. It has no "proof" all that is has are mostly failed claims.
I don’t know much about bible but in my religion, religion book is a study book and same time prays in book. It teaches us the wisdom, kindness, patience, generosity and compassion were important virtues and Know what’s wrong and what’s right. Same as our text book in school it teaches us gives us knowledge and teacher correct them.and we says mother is greatest because she gave birth to us. What we think is even if you don’t know how god look like keeping belief is the key. I know one story about it if you are interested I’ll tell you.
 
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Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
Every time I see something like this. I think of the apostle Paul's experience and his relating it to others. Obviously not everyone agreed with him and neither do they today. I do. I didn't have an experience like his, but I had my experience that made me realize God is there, He is watching, He is listening. And I am thankful.
For sure. I'm not after agreement because, as you point out, obtaining knowledge of God is a personal matter. It cannot be otherwise. When attempts are made to impose knowledge of God by one who claims it, people suffer, such as when church assumes the role of state in society.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
In your understanding. (although I support your position to believe otherwise... by faith) ;)

For us, faith is a spiritual law that is necessary to operate spiritually. It has its components that activate capacity that belongs to God.
Before I became a believer in God, the One I consider true, I thought all religions were a sham. Including the one I was born and raised in. But ... God reached me later on...there is no doubt in my mind.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I don’t know much about bible but in my religion, religion book is a study book and same time prays in book. It teaches us the wisdom, kindness, patience, generosity and compassion were important virtues and Know what’s wrong and what’s right. Same as our text book in school it teaches us gives us knowledge and teacher correct them.and we says mother is greatest because she gave birth to us. What we think is even if you don’t know how god look like keeping belief is the key. I know one story about it if you are interested I’ll tell you.
That God's word, the Bible, teaches me right from wrong changed my entire life. People thought I was crazy but as they saw me make changes in my lifestyle, they acknowledged this was helping, not hurting me. If you don't mind sharing your story I would be interested in hearing it. But do not feel obligated because I am reluctant to share my story, only the brief outline. Take care...
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You didn't. I asked and you said -
"There is no need for me to provide evidence to you in order to justify my faith. "


If there is a way outside the scientific method to provide evidence please explain it. Then explain by what methodology you use to demonstrate your anecdotal personal experience is any different than a Mormon, Muslim, Hindu or any cult where one is 100% convinced of the reality of the claims (on no evidence).

I don't want to dismiss it, I want to know it. If you provide anecdotal evidence that uses "feelings" than you have to show it's not the same as everyone else. Because the billions of humans in Islam are actually on average not different than the humans in your sect of Christianity. On a large scale you are equal. Their personal experience is no different.
You reject all the billions of personal evidence of Mormonism and Islam. Both have important updates, by the same method, revealed knowledge, that you trust. But you reject the evidence when it's them and not you. Seems like a cognitive bias here.
At least one scientist I read recently went into a long explanation about how something came from nothing and what nothing is, not really nothing. And blah blah blah. Then even added gravity into the nothing mix. Yes, I'm laughing here as to how stupid it is. So much for evidence. Of... something vs nothing. Lol...
 

Comi

New Member
I don’t know much about bible but in my religion, religion book is a study book and same time prays in book. It teaches us how to be great and
Know what’s wrong and what’s right. Same as our text book in school it teaches us gives us knowledge and teacher correct them.and we says mother is greatest because she gave birth to us. What we think is even if you don’t know how god look like keeping belief is the key. I know one story about it if you are interested I’ll tell you.
That God's word, the Bible, teaches me right from wrong changed my entire life. People thought I was crazy but as they saw me make changes in my lifestyle, they acknowledged this was helping, not hurting me. If you don't mind sharing your story I would be interested in hearing it. But do not feel obligated because I am reluctant to share my story, only the brief outline. Take care...
I am happy to hear you have become someone you wanted. So the story I want to share is about believing. I am from bouddhiste family and my mom told me one story:
One day a poor mother son had to go to northern india which is far away from theirs village so his mother ask his son if he can bring tooth of budha since that time Buddha have passed away and attained nirvana. The son promised his mother and went away after going away he wasn’t able to search for it and on his way back home he take a tooth from a dead dog and and when he reach he gave the tooth to his mother and lied that it’s Buddha’s tooth. The mother trusted the lied so much and she kept prying the and thinking it’s the bouddha tooth. Her 100%belief made the tooth turn into holly and shiny white tooth. We said it doesn’t matter if you don’t have huge and golden Buddha statue because it’s same as Buddha picture in piece of paper. In the end It’s the belief
 

Comi

New Member
One of our god says first ask question ask why this religion is good and how then belief in it.
And main thing respect all the religion. Belief them even if it’s not your religion.
 
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