There is NO Historical Evidence for Jesus

[Mark Charles Compton]

Yes people may lie all the time
But if someone held a a knife to your throat and told you to give up the lie or die.
Now would you be so willing to die for a lie ??

If someone held a knife to your throat and told you to give up "the lie" or die, but you weren't lying... Would you then lie to save your skin? Would you denounce God or join the martyrs?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes people may lie all the time
But if someone held a a knife to your throat and told you to give up the lie or die.
Now would you be so willing to die for a lie ??

It would depend on the situation and the lie. But it's irrelevant what I personally would do.

Dying for a lie doesn't necessarily mean one knows it's a lie, by the way. Nine hundred people in Jonestown poisoned themselves and their children because they thought Jim Jones was the Messiah. According to your line of logic here. that would make Jim Jones the Messiah. Do you think Jim Jones is the Messiah because all those people killed themselves and their children for him?

Nineteen adult men organized an horrific attack against the US in 2001, hijacking and flying planes into buildings killing thousands of people. They all thought that would get them a ticket to heaven. So, they just be in Heaven right now, right? Because people don't die for lies?

You're starting to get it now, right?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Specific quotes please.

Those Christians who died in Roman coliseum...for their faith..
All because they would not denounce their faith as being a lie...but died for the truth which they held..
so if someone held a knife to your throat...you either give up the lie or you die .
and you know factual it's a lie.
Without a doubt you'll give up the lie., Rather than die for a lie

 

[lukethethird]

I wouldn't personally, but that's irrelevant.

Dying for a lie doesn't necessarily mean one knows it's a lie, by the way. Nine hundred people in Jonestown poisoned themselves and their children because they thought Jim Jones was the Messiah. According to your line of logic here. that would make Jim Jones the Messiah. Do you thinkJim Jones is the Messiah because all those people killed themselves and their children for him?

Nineteen adult men organized an horrific attack against the US in 2001, hijacking and flying planes into buildings killing thousands of people. They all thought that would get them a ticket to heaven. So, they just be in Heaven right now, right? Because people don't die for lies?

You're starting to get it now, right?

Actually, Jim Jones's mass murder is not a good example, his followers had guns pointed at their heads, that's why they drank it. I know people to this day call it a mass suicide but that was not the case.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Actually, Jim Jones's mass murder is not a good example, his followers had guns pointed at their heads, that's why they drank it. I know people to this day call it a mass suicide but that was not the case.

Heaven's Gate.

 

[lukethethird]

Heaven's Gate.

That might be a better example though tougher to figure out since there were no surviving witnesses.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Those Christians who died in Roman coliseum...for their faith..
All because they would not denounce their faith as being a lie...but died for the truth which they held..
so if someone held a knife to your throat...you either give up the lie or you die .
and you know factual it's a lie.
Without a doubt you'll give up the lie., Rather than die for a lie

My question was asking for Biblical quotes referencing the resurrection of Jesus.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Actually, Jim Jones's mass murder is not a good example, his followers had guns pointed at their heads, that's why they drank it. I know people to this day call it a mass suicide but that was not the case.

Fair enough. There were some who did it willingly though.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Those Christians who died in Roman coliseum...for their faith..
All because they would not denounce their faith as being a lie...but died for the truth which they held..
so if someone held a knife to your throat...you either give up the lie or you die .
and you know factual it's a lie.
Without a doubt you'll give up the lie., Rather than die for a lie

There is no evidence that that was ever an option. That is merely church tradition.

 

[YoursTrue]

As far as I'm concerned, I wasted decades of my life believing in God and Jesus as well as being a Christian. Becoming a Christian was one of the worst decisions I've ever made because it turned out to be a nightmare for me. Renouncing my Christian faith and belief in God, on the other hand, was one of the best decisions I've ever made for my emotional well-being and mental health. My decision to disavow my faith and abandon Christianity was second only to the decision I made at the age of 18 to confront my adopted brother in an effort to stop him from abusing me. I saved myself from being abused.

So sorry to hear of the abuse.

 

[YoursTrue]

Most recent I recall is John Allen Chau.

John Allen Chau - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Multiple others as well died soley from reading an old mythological series of books called the Bible whom were out to spread all that ancient mythology.

That's the direct evidence and a horrible waste of a life on what is essentially a whim and a notion with absolutely nothing to show for it aside from the fairy tales spun from the bible. No different than tales told of Thor, Apollo, Zeus, Isis, Hercules, Poseidon etc.

It's pretty meaningful if one does not want or desire to get killed over tales and lore like those that did already.

Hence the proof and pretty solid proof if you ask me.

I read about that and while he likely had intentions of saving these people, he took a big chance. Even the government officials are afraid to go there, I recall reading.

 

[THINK!]

You have ignored the evidence. He was just a Jewish man- noit anyone especially important. But there IS evidence- if yolu desire to LOOK for it~!

 

[leroy]

Oh my oh my oh my. Such extreme projection. I did explain, but as usual you ignored that. Go back and read the post again.

you assumed that the quote is missleading because just it has ellipsis.

that is dishonest. Accusing someone for being a liar is a big accusation , that has not been supported properly by you

 

[TLK Valentine]

I guess that applies to the Roman and Greek gods and demi-gods as well with that logic.

They all were real people. Right?

Except nobody ever attempted to sanitize their stories... The Romans and Greeks never looked to their gods for moral guidance; you worshiped them because they'd curse you and turn you into some sort of pig-frog-bear thing if you disrespected them.
And the demigods' flaws were crucial elements of their stories: Yes, Achilles was a whiny prima donna and Hektor was a good and decent family man, but the point is that none of that means squat in a war - whiny or not, Achilles was a better fighter, and better fighters win wars.

 

[Subduction Zone]

you assumed that the quote is missleading because just it has ellipsis.

that is dishonest. Accusing someone for being a liar is a big accusation , that has not been supported properly by you

No, incorrect. Try again.

 

[leroy]

To be fair, though Josephus was in no way a witness he was a decent historian. He mainly wrote history about other issues. Jesus at best earned a passing mention from him. At least one of his works appears to have been altered to when it mentions Jesus. And then he of course showed (among others) that Luke's Nativity was mythical. The author of Luke had a ten year difference in birth date from Matthew, and a totally bogus reason that Jesus was supposedly born in Bethlehem.

You keep repeating that claim without any support

The only thing we know is that Luke and Josephus have different dates for the same event (census)………how do you know that Josephus is correct?............. (o yea your imaginary sources confirm that Josephus is correct)

Why would Luke invent a story just to put Jeus birth in Bethlehem? (this question has a trap)

 

[leroy]

No, incorrect. Try again.

Ok I´ll try again

You assumed that the quote is misleading because it came from a site that doesn’t support your own personal word view

 

[Subduction Zone]

You keep repeating that claim without any support

The only thing we know is that Luke and Josephus have different dates for the same event (census)………how do you know that Josephus is correct?............. (o yea your imaginary sources confirm that Josephus is correct)

Why would Luke invent a story just to put Jeus birth in Bethlehem? (this question has a trap)

You mean why would the author of Luke do that. True believers are not above padding a story. Look at the incredible dishonesty that we see here when it comes to people dealing with their religious beliefs. Why do you think that the author of Luke was any different? The only problem is with the incredibly poor job that he did of it.

And why do you keep pointing to only the author of Luke and Josephus? This sort of arguing by you supports my claim. You have to know by now that Josephus is not the only Roman source that shows the nativity story in Luke to be a myth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok I´ll try again

You assumed that the quote is misleading because it came from a site that doesn’t support your own personal word view

Nope. You are still making false accusations. That is never a wise tactic because now you have taken on the burden of proof. You do tend to do this quite often.

 

[leroy]

1st generation Christians were also saying Jesus battled Satan in the celestial realms and resurrected there, coming to earth later to tell his story (Ascension of Isaiah).
50% of 2nd century Christians were some sort of Gnostic Christians.
Resurrecting savior deities were involved in all other mystery religions were Hellenistic Greeks invavded. So it was a trend. Christianity was the last.


Elusinian Mysteries = Mycenaean + Hellenistic


Bacchic Mysteries = Phoenician + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Attis and Cybele = Phrygian + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Baal = Anatolian + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Mithras = Persian + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Isis and Osiris = Egyptian + Hellenistic


Christian Mysteries = Jewish + Hellenistic


Justin Martyr said Jesus was like other deities in most ways (but the devil did that)

So a Hellenistic trend (salvation from a savior figure who resurrects and provides entry into an afterlife) is then actually used by a real God?
Even though that "real God" looks like all other Near Eastern Gods early on and even uses Mesopotamian myth to create the first books?
And the two nations who occupied Judea just happen to already have every single thing added on to Judaism in their religion and caused the Christian myths. But despite all that its' still all true.
Sure. And gold plates exist under a hill in NY with Egyptain writing created by angel Moroni for Joe Smith.

Resurrecting saviors IS A TREND that developed in that region over many years. The Greeks made it into a very definitive theology but before them the first resurrecting God was Inanna. Not a Hellenistic savior or a Persian world saving messiah (virgin born from a woman impregnated by the supreme God) but a Sumerian resurrection, in 3 days as well.


Inanna is the earliest known resurrected god. For her, a clear-cut death-and-resurrection tale exists on clay tablets inscribed in Sumeria over a thousand years before Christianity, plainly describing her humiliation, trial, execution, and crucifixion, and her resurrection three days later. After she is stripped naked and judgment is pronounced against her, Inanna is “turned into a corpse” and “the corpse was hung from a nail” and “after three days and three nights” her assistants ask for her corpse and resurrect her (by feeding her the “water” and “food” of life), and “Inanna arose” according to what had been her plan all along, because she knew her father “would surely bring me back to life,” exactly as transpires in the story (quotations are from the tablets, adapting the translation of Samuel Noah Kramer in History Begins at Sumer). This cult continued to be practiced into the Christian period, Tyre being a major center of her worship. By then, there is some evidence her resurrection tale was shifted to her consort Tammuz, one of several resurrected deities the Greeks called Adonis."

And what is your theory?

Paul invented a God that resurrected based on a previous myths , then he worshiped that God and even died for this God that he himself invented?