timothy1027
Technology Advocate! :-)
Simple answer: Because the truth exposes them as delusional people attempting to spread disinformation!Why do Christians hate the truth so much?
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There is NO Historical Evidence for Jesus
- Thread starter Thrillobyte
- Start date
lukethethird
unknown member
What is the science behind the claim that God exists?
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Thrillobyte
Active Member
For Christians science doesn't exist because science exposes Christianity for the fraud it is every step of the way.
PureX
Veteran Member
Science has nothing to do with the claim that God exists. The claim that God exists (and in a way that affects humanity) is philosophy (specifically, theology), not science.
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Colt
Well-Known Member
"A mechanistic philosophy of life and the universe cannot be scientific because science recognizes and deals only with materials and facts. Philosophy is inevitably superscientific. Man is a material fact of nature, but his life is a phenomenon which transcends the material levels of nature in that it exhibits the control attributes of mind and the creative qualities of spirit.
195:7.10 (2079.5) The sincere effort of man to become a mechanist represents the tragic phenomenon of that man’s futile effort to commit intellectual and moral suicide. But he cannot do it.
195:7.11 (2079.6) If the universe were only material and man only a machine, there would be no science to embolden the scientist to postulate this mechanization of the universe. Machines cannot measure, classify, nor evaluate themselves. Such a scientific piece of work could be executed only by some entity of supermachine status." UB 1955
lukethethird
unknown member
Science has everything to do with claims of existence, Gods and gods are no exception, and no, theology is not philosophy.
Thrillobyte
Active Member
Sure it does. If you want to take the approach that Christians live by faith alone without a need of want for evidence then it's true, that's a philosophical matter. But I don't know of any person outside of Christianity who lives purely by faith without evidence. If you were looking for a home to buy and I said, "I have a home I can sell you at half the market value but it has to be a cash deal, I don't have the deed and I won't let you walk though the house but I want you to trust me on faith that I have the right to sell you this home", what would your reaction be? Now be honest. Would you trust me on blind faith that the home is mine to sell and fork over the $250,000 sight unseen? So why would you accept Jesus lived and died for your sins and devote your entire life to serving him under the same circumstances?
But if we're talking about believing God exists without doing it by faith alone and relying on evidence for God then science wins hands down. Show me any scientific evidence that God exists. You can't do it.
leroy
Well-Known Member
You are just child playing and bouncing from one topic to another.
All I am saying is that if a text was written by an author that was honestly trying to report what he thought was true , then the text is more likely to be accurate, than if the author is not interested in reporting the truth (like poems or science fiction)
So please ether refute this point or grant it………….. after we are done we can go to Mathew or any other topic
you are the one who is claiming that multpile sources confirm the date of the census at 6AC………….. so my only “homework” is to ask you to support your claim
No man, the burden proof is yours, you are the one who is claiming and affirming that Joseph had no reason to go to Bethlehem
These are all facts that are reported both in Josephus and the gospels………….. therefore likely to be true.
Yes and my point is that the gospels get the benefit of the doubt because the verifiable claims that they make, tend to be true.
So exactly which point are you rejecting? (just kidding, you obviously will avoid a direct answer)
1 that this is not a good criteria to determine if a text earns the benefit of the doubt
2 that the gospels don’t match this criteria?
Yea, which is why nobody in this forum is disputing the fact that Quirneleous made a Census.
The only specific claim that is under dispute is the specific date …………. We have 2 authors proposing different dates….. (josephus and Luke)
Why are you so sure that Josephus is correct?-… just kidding a direct answer is not expected from you
I'm glad to hear you see there is more nuance and subtlety than what it appears to be based on the way you word things in absolutist language, such as "Frankly, there's no other reason for them to be theists, is there? It's a psychological crutch to blot out the fear of dying." Or, "For Christians science doesn't exist because science exposes Christianity for the fraud it is every step of the way."
My primary point has been to push back against such black and white language and show that things like religious faith and experience are much more on a spectrum, as opposed to looking at the lowest common denominator and broad brush-stroking the whole with that caricature. I find that to be just a transference of a religious "we're saved and they're all lost" thinking from a theistic context to an atheistic context of "we're right and they're all delusional" thinking.
Not all Christians find that solace in "I'll get to see my family again after I die", that some try to use it to calm that existential anxiety. Frankly, I still don't think those who confidently declare their faith in their beliefs like this, deep down inside actual are calmed about it. Leaning on your ideas and trying to tell yourself it's all okay, is asking the mind to fix a matter of the heart.
That doesn't work very well for anything in life, let alone addressing fears of their existential dread. I see such confident beliefs as an overcompensation, "I stand upon my beliefs!", as opposed to feeling actual Peace about it.
Regarding atheists not having that same narrative that they can tell themselves, so they theoretically have no choice now but to face that terror of non-being and come to terms with the truth. Again, even though they don't have that as belief they can distract themselves with from their personal confrontation with the Abyss, this does not mean that they can't just as easily find someone other compensation to avoid that matter of the heart. There are plenty of beliefs they can try to tell themselves to try to calm the deep tremors from that chasm in themselves.
That said however, I do recognize that atheism can in fact be a step forward towards that Awakening experience, facing the Void and coming out on the other side Free. But that is not by any means an automatic. Atheism can be an important move on the path, particularly for those, like myself, who had been poisoned by fundamentalist religion.
Casting off the "God of Fear", as they envision it in their theologies, can be an important step towards freedom from all fear. But this is more on an individual basis, than some unilateral atheism is better than theism thing.
Yes, exactly as I just said now above. The same thing applies to atheism as well. It's really what is the best path for that person with their history and their individual makeup. For me, atheism was an important step to extricate myself from the mental poison of fundamentalist beliefs about God.
I no longer was giving any power over to "that God", as they portaried it, and I had tried to adopt for myself. It was a step forward ejecting that, to empower myself with a choice, rather than being captive to fear, which they masterfully exploit in their version of religion. I honestly belief that is the same thing for most ExChristians who become champions of atheism.
But many simply just stop there and make that their new religion of choice, in effect. "I used to believe I knew the truth, but now I really DO know the truth!". I didn't stop there, but I kept going to where I could see atheism itself as just another step, or possible rest stop on that same of road of spiritual progress.
In both cases, it's still the mind trying to tell the heart to be calm. Neither ultimately is going to work. At best it is a matter of how effective a distraction they remain to be. It's more a matter of does what we try to tell ourselves still work, or are the questions and issues of life such that those distractions are no longer effective?
I look back at my having left the Christian beliefs and system I had once been a part of, not as having "lost my faith". But really it was more a case of my faith had outgrown their system of belief. It was trying to fit my foot which had grown to a size 8 at that time, into their size 5 shoes that they sold. It was no longer a proper fit, and it cause much more discomfort than anything useful to me. So the hard choice of saying goodbye to them to find larger shoes from different shoemakers began.
Then the atheist store had much better fitting shoes for me, until they became a bit too snug for my toes to continue to grow, and they began sticking out of the ends of them. And so on I went to find size 9 shoes, and size 10 shoes, and so forth. It just really depends on the person's growth patterns. Some never need anything more than a size 5 shoes, and so they are happy being Young Earth Creationists, for example.
I think those play a part of their sense of emotional security, but it's still at the heart level where peace is ultimately found, which is where spirituality really opens up, that Freedom from fear than holds everyone at bay from the Reality around us and within us at all times.
Some people believe in the continuation of consciousness after death because of mystical experiences that lead them to believe that. But for your average person who lacks some sort of person experience like that, I suppose it's more philosophical in nature, that there has to be more to the meaning of life and existence than just than just living and dying for no grander purpose. Or it could be a more intuitive sense that this is a greater holistic Mystery to reality where life after physical death, or the continuation of consciousness, seems more consistent with what their guts tell them.
My point is there can be many reasons for it, and I don't believe just trying to reduce to seeking emotional comfort to face the fear of death with is adequate to explain the many reasons individuals may have. Again, it's more of a spectrum and you can't broadstroke the whole thing by painting it as the lowest possible variable available to choose from.
The why bother question seems better answered with the view of the wonder and miracle of existence itself, that there has to be some meaning to it, some grander meaning than just eating, pooping, having sex, and croaking, rinse and repeat.
That works for this purpose.
No. While there are studies about NDE's, in no way can you say this concludes, as you stated, "The evidence for no afterlife lies in science never having been able to demonstrate anything exists beyond this life". Those studies don't have anything to do with the afterlife itself. They don't make conclusions that nothing that happened isn't real, or something like that.
Science can also measure brain activities in people who are having mystical experiences, such as those in deep states of mediation. That does not mean that the content of their experiences doesn't exist. How do you figure?
I believe they are simply stating what they believe to be true through faith. If they are moronic enough to claim it's a fact and that they have evidence to support it, then yes, they should put up or shut up. But to them I say what they are doing is both bad science and bad faith. They are deeply confused about both areas.
Not to simply say they believe there is life after death it isn't. They're stating a matter of religious faith, not make science claims. Can you not appreciate the difference, even if they seem confused about it themselves?
In that particular case, secular historians and scholars can weigh in on the historical Jesus. That is different than the Jesus of faith, or the theological Jesus. Claims he rose from the grave, or walked on water are theological views. Did a man exist who started a movement that became a religion, is a historical, not religious view.
I would disagree with that if that said atheist declared, "There is no God!", or that science proves there is no God. Both are matters of faith, and likewise is bad faith and bad science.
I don't think acknowledging that there was a historical Jesus means someone is going to buy into the whole theological Jesus of faith system. Those are two different things. Do you believe accepting the former, give credence to accepting the latter? Is this your concern?
I would not consider mystical experiences to be 'supernatural'. In fact they are quite natural, as there have been countless humans who have had and do have them, myself included. I am talking about higher states of consciousness, which has been the subject of many modern studies, including MRI scans of brains of experienced mediators, and the like.
These are human experiences, that are fairly common. We are not talking about magical supernatural things, like some angel showing some dude where golden tablets with God's word are buried (sorry Mormons).
Now is it their "perception" that they had a transcendent experience? No. It is their experience. One doesn't believe they had an experience, they know they did. But, what we may think about that experience, how we interpret the meaning of that, well, that is a matter where perception comes in.
With any of life's experiences, our perception of those experiences determines what we think about it. And mystical experiences are no different. However, it unmistakable that they were real experiences themselves, regardless of what we may think about them at the time, or even years later.
These are of a different nature than what I am talking about. These are examples of someone looking for signs to confirm or validate their beliefs and attaching meaning to the interpretation of it, and tying their faith to their ideas about it. If you challenge their beliefs, you threaten their faith.
But this can be as true for the atheist who has to deny the evidences of things that challenge his faith in a purely materialistic, reductionist view of reality, where they go on the attack to those who potentially undermine their faith. They are really no different in that regard.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
LMAO! No, that is you. Try to focus on one point and try again.
leroy
Well-Known Member
If the authors of the gospels knew about the “surroundings” and they where trying making things up purpose, then the sources are good historical sources.
If you have good reasons to reject the possibilities of miracles, then you can dismiss those events as events that were wrongly interpreted as miracles or just literary devises.
This is what historians (and members form this forum) do with josephus and many other authors ………. You don’t simply drop josephus just because his books have miracles and supernatural claims,
The question on whether if the miracles that Josephus report are actual or not is a question that goes beyond de scope of history as a method.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Now you are using false equivalencies.
Thrillobyte
Active Member
I think we've managed to hammer out a consensus because I can agree with most of all you say. Congrats.That works for this purpose.
No. While there are studies about NDE's, in no way can you say this concludes, as you stated, "The evidence for no afterlife lies in science never having been able to demonstrate anything exists beyond this life". Those studies don't have anything to do with the afterlife itself. They don't make conclusions that nothing that happened isn't real, or something like that.
Science can also measure brain activities in people who are having mystical experiences, such as those in deep states of mediation. That does not mean that the content of their experiences doesn't exist. How do you figure?
I believe they are simply stating what they believe to be true through faith. If they are moronic enough to claim it's a fact and that they have evidence to support it, then yes, they should put up or shut up. But to them I say what they are doing is both bad science and bad faith. They are deeply confused about both areas.
Not to simply say they believe there is life after death it isn't. They're stating a matter of religious faith, not make science claims. Can you not appreciate the difference, even if they seem confused about it themselves?
In that particular case, secular historians and scholars can weigh in on the historical Jesus. That is different than the Jesus of faith, or the theological Jesus. Claims he rose from the grave, or walked on water are theological views. Did a man exist who started a movement that became a religion, is a historical, not religious view.
I would disagree with that if that said atheist declared, "There is no God!", or that science proves there is no God. Both are matters of faith, and likewise is bad faith and bad science.
I don't think acknowledging that there was a historical Jesus means someone is going to buy into the whole theological Jesus of faith system. Those are two different things. Do you believe accepting the former, give credence to accepting the latter? Is this your concern?
I would not consider mystical experiences to be 'supernatural'. In fact they are quite natural, as there have been countless humans who have had and do have them, myself included. I am talking about higher states of consciousness, which has been the subject of many modern studies, including MRI scans of brains of experienced mediators, and the like.
These are human experiences, that are fairly common. We are not talking about magical supernatural things, like some angel showing some dude where golden tablets with God's word are buried (sorry Mormons).
Now is it their "perception" that they had a transcendent experience? No. It is their experience. One doesn't believe they had an experience, they know they did. But, what we may think about that experience, how we interpret the meaning of that, well, that is a matter where perception comes in.
With any of life's experiences, our perception of those experiences determines what we think about it. And mystical experiences are no different. However, it unmistakable that they were real experiences themselves, regardless of what we may think about them at the time, or even years later.
These are of a different nature than what I am talking about. These are examples of someone looking for signs to confirm or validate their beliefs and attaching meaning to the interpretation of it, and tying their faith to their ideas about it. If you challenge their beliefs, you threaten their faith.
But this can be as true for the atheist who has to deny the evidences of things that challenge his faith in a purely materialistic, reductionist view of reality, where they go on the attack to those who potentially undermine their faith. They are really no different in that regard.
PureX
Veteran Member
Wrong across the board. Good job! Science explores physical interactions, not existence. Science has nothing whatever to do with the existence of God/gods. And theology is the branch of philosophy that's based on the proposition that God/gods exist and in a way that means something to humanity. But you will continue to ignore these corrections and remain ignorant. Because that's what happens when one cannot control their ego, and their ego then controls them.
joelr
Well-Known Member
Sure, please present me with reasonable evidence. Which belief am I holding confirmation bias on and why? Belief in God? Yeah, there isn't evidence for any God. There is evidence it's a made up fiction.
right away with unevidenced claims? Really? Please give me reasonable evidence of a "God Fragment" that indwells in individuals and the methodology to determine it's real.
Wow, the entire field of psychology disagrees with you. As does evolutionary behavior.
so Musonius Rufus, who was as moral as Jesus, but believed in Zeus, does this show Zeus is real?
On Musonius Rufus: A Brief Essay (1999)
Richard Carrier Musonius » Internet Infidels
On Musonius Rufus: A Brief Essay (1999) Richard Carrier Since this man deserves far more publicity than he has ever gotten in the modern age, I have written this short essay. He exemplifies the sort of man who should have been venerated and made the founder of a world religion, but was not...
infidels.org
Now please present evidence that we have a spirit instead of just a mind.
No they claim to but it's something without a literal definition.
Uh, it's also because the text offers both sides on many issues. People go looking to justify a belief and find something. Meanwhile the opposite is often also justified and that is ignored.
Exactly, religion is an attempt at a moral system. Made up by people.
If someone tells you there is a God-consciousness in you then you will look for it. In reality we have many levels of consciousness and are drawing morals from many sources
This page is all over the place and they are trying really hard to say the thing that religion actually believes - that God gives people revelations and from that we learn rules and such. It sounds like they are afraid to say it because it sounds like something quite un-true. A plain reading of this is, people make up religions in an attempt to create a moral structure and other people interpret them a bit different depending on the person.
joelr
Well-Known Member
There is very little similar in the Daodejing to Mystery cults.
It doesn't have the Persian ideas:
- War of good God vs Evil God/light vs dark/ God vs Satan
- Bad people burn in hell, good people wait in heaven
- A river of fire will flow over the universe burning everything up (even hell itself)
- A new better world created in it’s place
- All good people will be resurrected by God to live in that new world happily ever after
Or the 4 trends in Hellenism:
- Syncretism: combining a foreign cult deity with Hellenistic elements. Christianity is a Jewish mystery religion.
- Henotheism: transforming / reinterpreting polytheism into monotheism. Judaism introduced monolatric concepts.
- Individualism: agricultural salvation cults retooled as personal salvation cults. Salvation of community changed into personal individual salvation in afterlife. All original agricultural salvation cults were retooled by the time Christianity arose.
- Cosmopolitianism: all races, cultures, classes admitted as equals, with fictive kinship (members are all brothers) you now “join” a religion rather than being born into it
and no personal savior deities-
- All saviors
- all son/daughter, never the supreme God (including Mithriasm)
- all undergo a passion (struggle) patheon
- all obtain victory over death which they share with followers
- all have stories set on earth
- none actually existed
- Is Jesus the exception and based on a real Jewish teacher or is it all made up?
also no baptism, communal meal, Logos, mystery terminology, blood atonement theology (substitutionary sacrifice).
The Mystery religion form of baptism is different than the Jewish or John the Baptist version.
These differences are the same in all Mystery religions:
- symbolic sharing of saviors ordeal
- to be born again (Osiris cult)
- united into brotherhood
- to be saved in afterlife
- cleaned of sin (Bacchus, Osiris, Mithras)
- baptism for dead (Paul mentions this 1 Cor, 15: 29)
and the Eucharist in Mystery religions has specific traits-
- become one with savior
- to be united in brotherhood
- saved in afterlife
- Lords Supper
- Rememberence, flesh/blood/death, 1 Cor 11:24-26
None of this is in Daoism. It's quite different.
joelr
Well-Known Member
We can provide evidence they were writing fiction.
The literary analysis is all fictive and rewrites of OT, Romulus, Homer, and other stories. Several mythical trope patterns are followed. The theology is completelya Jewish version of Persian and Greek myth.
Persian religion, Zoroastrianism had ideas Judaism did not have but picked up.
- War of good God vs Evil God/light vs dark/ God vs Satan
- Bad people burn in hell, good people wait in heaven
- A river of fire will flow over the universe burning everything up (even hell itself)
- A new better world created in it’s place
- All good people will be resurrected by God to live in that new world happily ever after
Trends in Hellenistic religion
- Syncretism: combining a foreign cult deity with Hellenistic elements. Christianity is a Jewish mystery religion.
- Henotheism: transforming / reinterpreting polytheism into monotheism. Judaism introduced monolatric concepts.
- Individualism: agricultural salvation cults retooled as personal salvation cults. Salvation of community changed into personal individual salvation in afterlife. All original agricultural salvation cults were retooled by the time Christianity arose.
- Cosmopolitianism: all races, cultures, classes admitted as equals, with fictive kinship (members are all brothers) you now “join” a religion rather than being born into it
All Mystery religions have personal savior deities
- All saviors
- all son/daughter, never the supreme God (including Mithriasm)
- all undergo a passion (struggle) patheon
- all obtain victory over death which they share with followers
- all have stories set on earth
- none actually existed
- Is Jesus the exception and based on a real Jewish teacher or is it all made up?
Baptism, Christian version is different from Jewish/John the Baptist version of baptism. Differences are the same in all mystery religions.
- symbolic sharing of saviors ordeal
- to be born again (Osiris cult)
- united into brotherhood
- to be saved in afterlife
- cleaned of sin (Bacchus, Osiris, Mithras)
- baptism for dead (Paul mentions this 1 Cor, 15: 29)
Eucharist in Mystery religions
- become one with savior
- to be united in brotherhood
- saved in afterlife
- Lords Supper
- Rememberence, flesh/blood/death, 1 Cor 11:24-26
Mystery language similar to other cults is found in many places in Mark.
Christianity is a Jewish Mystery religion, syncretic, henotheistic, individualist, universal brotherhood, savior son of God with passion and myth, baptism, Lords supper as communion for salvation, mysteries reserved for initiated.
All of this supports a fictive religious myth.
The 36 other Gospels also support this as well as the Ded Sea Scrolls and the fact that the OT uses Mesopotamian and Egyptian myth to create Genesis and Moses. Persian influence in found in Daniel and Isaiah.
These trends only happened in this area.
Justin Martyr confirmed Jesus was just like the Greek deities (Satan did that to fool Christians).
Giving us VAST reasons to conclude the additional miracles and supernatural events were part of a fictional narrative, just as they were with all other Mystery religions and the Hellenistic religions that they came from. As well as the Persian religion. All sources had supernatural events, all were myth.
They were similar to events in the NT. Revelation is almost a verbatim story from Persia. As are miracles by Greek deities, 3 day resurrection, virgin born.
Chapter 69. The devil, since he emulates the truth, has invented fables about Bacchus, Hercules, and Æsculapius
Justin: Be well assured, then, Trypho, that I am established in the knowledge of and faith in the Scriptures by those counterfeits which he who is called the devil is said to have performed among the Greeks; just as some were wrought by the Magi in Egypt, and others by the false prophets in Elijah's days. For when they tell that Bacchus, son of Jupiter, was begotten by [Jupiter's] intercourse with Semele, and that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended to heaven; and when they introduce wine into his mysteries, do I not perceive that [the devil] has imitated the prophecy announced by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses? And when they tell that Hercules was strong, and travelled over all the world, and was begotten by Jove of Alcmene, and ascended to heaven when he died, do I not perceive that the Scripture which speaks of Christ, 'strong as a giant to run his race,' has been in like manner imitated?
----- And when he [the devil] brings forward Æsculapius as the raiser of the dead and healer of all diseases, may I not say that in this matter likewise he has imitated the prophecies about Christ? --------
Chapter 70. So also the mysteries of Mithras are distorted from the prophecies of Daniel and Isaiah
Justin: And when those who record the mysteries of Mithras say that he was begotten of a rock, and call the place where those who believe in him are initiated a cave, do I not perceive here that the utterance of Daniel, that a stone without hands was cut out of a great mountain, has been imitated by them, and that they have attempted likewise to imitate the whole of Isaiah's words?
And when I hear, Trypho, that Perseus was begotten of a virgin, I understand that the deceiving serpent counterfeited also this.
HEALER OF ALL DISEASES.
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Augustus
…
It isn't generic Daoism, but a specific millenarian movement within Daoism.
Millenarian/Chiliastic movements often emerge out of broader, less radical movements and all feature the same trope:
Evil is winning which requires a 'saviour' whose arrival (or frequently return) ushers in a utopian era.
The saviour may return from the dead, reappear from occlusion, be the living embodiment of a divine figure or even be a secular leader.
The saviour is frequently a real person, and such movements have and continue to exist all over the world, as they seem to reflect a common aspect of human psychology.
Millenarian saviours take on the characteristics of the cultures they emerge in so they may be Laotze, Jesus, the 12th Imam/Mahdi, Emperor Frederick the 2nd or Adolf Hitler.
The story of Jesus is a classical example of a millenarian saviour narrative, so much so that the name of the phenomenon derives from Christianity.
joelr
Well-Known Member
Joseph Smith was writing AS IF what he was reporting was true. He described Mormon Hill, a place in NY accurately. So was Muhammad. Equally as much as the Gospels.
Same for the The Bhagavad Gita
But seriously, isn't LOTR written as if it's true? Or Romulus or any myth?
This doesn't sound like it's supposed to be true?
To run, to escape, to quiet and to pacify are yours, Inana. To rove around, to rush, to rise up, to fall down and to ...... a companion are yours, Inana. To open up roads and paths, a place of peace for the journey, a companion for the weak, are yours, Inana. To keep paths and ways in good order, to shatter earth and to make it firm are yours, Inana. To destroy, to build up, to tear out and to settle are yours, Inana. To turn a man into a woman and a woman into a man are yours, Inana. Desirability and arousal, goods and property are yours, Inana. Gain, profit, great wealth and greater wealth are yours, Inana. Gaining wealth and having success in wealth, financial loss and reduced wealth are yours, Inana. Observation (1 ms. has instead: Everything), choice, offering, inspection and approval are yours, Inana. Assigning virility, dignity, guardian angels, protective deities and cult centres are yours, Inana.
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132-154...... mercy and pity are yours, Inana. ...... are yours, Inana. To cause the ...... heart to tremble, ...... illnesses are yours, Inana. To have a wife, ......, to love ...... are yours, Inana. To rejoice, to control (?), ...... are yours, Inana. Neglect and care, raising and bowing down are yours, Inana. To build a house, to create a woman's chamber, to possess implements, to kiss a child's lips are yours, Inana. To run, to race, to desire and to succeed are yours, Inana. To interchange the brute and the strong and the weak and the powerless is yours, Inana. To interchange the heights and valleys and the ...... and the plains (?) is yours, Inana. To give the crown, the throne and the royal sceptre is yours, Inana.
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155-157To diminish, to make great, to make low, to make broad, to ...... and to give a lavish supply are yours, Inana. To bestow the divine and royal rites, to carry out the appropriate instructions, slander, untruthful words, abuse, to speak inimically and to overstate are yours, Inana.
158-168The false or true response, the sneer, to commit violence, to extend derision, to speak with hostility, to cause smiling and to be humbled or important, misfortune, hardship, grief, to make happy, to clarify and to darken, agitation, terror, fear, splendour and great awesomeness in radiance, triumph, pursuit, imbasur illness, sleeplessness and restlessness, submission, gift, ...... and howling, strife, chaos, opposition, fighting and carnage, ......, to know everything, to strengthen for the distant future a nest built ......, to instill fear in the ...... desert like a ...... poisonous snake, to subdue the hostile enemy, ...... and to hate ...... are yours, Inana.
169-173To ...... the lots ......, to gather the dispersed people and restore them to their homes, to receive ......, to ...... are yours, Inana.
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174-181...... the runners, when you open your mouth, ...... turns into ....... At your glance a deaf man does not ...... to one who can hear. At your angry glare what is bright darkens; you turn midday into darkness. When the time had come you destroyed the place you had in your thoughts, you made the place tremble. Nothing can be compared to your purposes (?); who can oppose your great deeds? You are the lady of heaven and earth! Inana, in (?) the palace the unbribable judge, among the numerous people ...... decisions. The invocation of your name fills the mountains, An (?) cannot compete with your .......
182-196Your understanding ...... all the gods ....... You alone are magnificent. You are the great cow among the gods of heaven and earth, as many as there are. When you raise your eyes they pay heed to you, they wait for your word. The Anuna gods stand praying in the place where you dwell. Great awesomeness, glory ....... May your praise not cease! Where is your name not magnificent?
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