There is NO Historical Evidence for Jesus

[joelr]

that first generation christians where already proclaiming the resurection that is what I mean by "talk of resurrection" The implication is that the resurrection is not a legend that developed over the years.

1st generation Christians were also saying Jesus battled Satan in the celestial realms and resurrected there, coming to earth later to tell his story (Ascension of Isaiah).
50% of 2nd century Christians were some sort of Gnostic Christians.
Resurrecting savior deities were involved in all other mystery religions were Hellenistic Greeks invavded. So it was a trend. Christianity was the last.


Elusinian Mysteries = Mycenaean + Hellenistic


Bacchic Mysteries = Phoenician + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Attis and Cybele = Phrygian + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Baal = Anatolian + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Mithras = Persian + Hellenistic


Mysteries of Isis and Osiris = Egyptian + Hellenistic


Christian Mysteries = Jewish + Hellenistic


Justin Martyr said Jesus was like other deities in most ways (but the devil did that)

So a Hellenistic trend (salvation from a savior figure who resurrects and provides entry into an afterlife) is then actually used by a real God?
Even though that "real God" looks like all other Near Eastern Gods early on and even uses Mesopotamian myth to create the first books?
And the two nations who occupied Judea just happen to already have every single thing added on to Judaism in their religion and caused the Christian myths. But despite all that its' still all true.
Sure. And gold plates exist under a hill in NY with Egyptain writing created by angel Moroni for Joe Smith.

Resurrecting saviors IS A TREND that developed in that region over many years. The Greeks made it into a very definitive theology but before them the first resurrecting God was Inanna. Not a Hellenistic savior or a Persian world saving messiah (virgin born from a woman impregnated by the supreme God) but a Sumerian resurrection, in 3 days as well.


Inanna is the earliest known resurrected god. For her, a clear-cut death-and-resurrection tale exists on clay tablets inscribed in Sumeria over a thousand years before Christianity, plainly describing her humiliation, trial, execution, and crucifixion, and her resurrection three days later. After she is stripped naked and judgment is pronounced against her, Inanna is “turned into a corpse” and “the corpse was hung from a nail” and “after three days and three nights” her assistants ask for her corpse and resurrect her (by feeding her the “water” and “food” of life), and “Inanna arose” according to what had been her plan all along, because she knew her father “would surely bring me back to life,” exactly as transpires in the story (quotations are from the tablets, adapting the translation of Samuel Noah Kramer in History Begins at Sumer). This cult continued to be practiced into the Christian period, Tyre being a major center of her worship. By then, there is some evidence her resurrection tale was shifted to her consort Tammuz, one of several resurrected deities the Greeks called Adonis."

 

[Colt]

Are you actually sourcing fiction made up by an independent writer with no degrees in any relevant fields of study? That is your argument?

I'm sourcing revelation from celestial beings who know whereof they speak.

 

[Faithofchristian]

There is NO secular historical evidence for Jesus, son of God or the apostles, period. Despite all the propaganda Christians put forth about there being so much evidence for Jesus in the historical record, it is just disinformation disguised as truth to keep Christianity afloat. The truth is there simply is no secular historical evidence an avatar god man named Jesus as described in the gospels ever lived--nor did the 12 men he supposedly gathered around him and walked with them for 3 years before being crucified. NONE of this is supported by historical fact. No historian mentions all the supernatural events that the gospels claim occurred after Christ's supposed crucifixion, even though the Gospels claim Jesus' fame spread far beyond the borders of Israel. There may be a possibility an ordinary man who was a Jewish zealot was crucified by the Romans for sedition against Rome but again no historian mentions one.

The two passages by Josephus so often cited by Christians as mentioning Jesus are so mired in controversy that they are dismissed by mainstream historians as having little to no value in trying to prove Jesus existed. Here are some pertinent facts that Christians should consider before they try to pass off these passages as proof of Jesus:

* The Testimonium Flavianum is never quoted by anyone until the 4th century (c. 324), when Bishop Eusebius begins quoting it. Scholars believe it was Eusebius who doctored the passage with references to Jesus' supernatural nature.

* It is impossible that this passage is entirely genuine. It is highly unlikely that Josephus, a Jew working in concert with the Romans, would have written, "He was the Messiah." This would make him suspect of treason. Indeed, in Wars of the Jews, Josephus declares that Vespasian fulfilled the messianic oracles. Furthermore, Origen, writing about a century before Eusebius, says twice that Josephus "did not believe in Jesus as the Christ."

* Josephus is on record that the Emperor Vespasian was the messiah and had fulfilled prophecy.

* The second passage of Josephus, "The brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James.” is a scribal interpolation. There are several indications that the sentence fragment “who was called Christ” was not original to the text.

Here is a link to some research that will help to clear up the controversy surrounding the Josephus passages:

Josephus and Jesus: The Testimonium Flavianum Question

The gospels were NOT written by the apostles or anyone connected to Jesus or the fictional apostles. The gospels were written 50-100 years after Jesus purportedly was crucified in 30 AD by anonymous Greek scholars who couldn't have known Jesus and certainly were not familiar with Israel's geographic terrain as evidenced by the numerous errors they made about towns' proximity to each other and to other natural terrain. The Romans were excellent record keepers of their trials but a trial of Jesus ben Joseph or similar name who was crucified under Pilate's order simply doesn't exist. The name Yeshua ben Joseph or Yeshua Moshiach (Jesus Christ) doesn't appear anywhere in the historical record. A few historians like Tacitus made reference to a man referred to as "Chrestus" but we have no idea who that is nor can we know or reasonably ascertain if they were referring to Jesus, the son of God or another Chrestus who had a following. What we Do know is that Christians are constantly trying to pass off this passage and similar ones using the term, "Christ" as proof secular historians mention Jesus. But they don't. There were dozens of "Christs" in Jesus' time. Any of them could lay claim to being the Messiah.

If God had wanted us to believe Jesus is his divine son sent to earth to die for our sins, God would have left a mountain of evidence proving this that would be so compelling that no one in their right mind could argue otherwise.

But God left no such compelling evidence. The proof for this fact is truth No 1 above. That would mean the Christian god, if he even exists, doesn't give a tinker's damn whether or not we believe in Jesus. God, if he exists, shows himself to not interfere or participate in human affairs. Thus, he could not have left any evidence for this Jesus fellow and this is exactly what we see in the secular historic record--NO mention of Jesus or the apostles.

An unassailable truth: prayers do not get answered, in contrast to what Jesus promises in the gospels. Millions upon millions of people pray every day for their sick loved ones to get well and their loved ones do not recover. If a person recovers it is usually on the order of 10% and here is the key thing: it occurs across all demographics with the SAME rate of frequency. Thus, a small percentage of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and atheists all recover from serious illness at exactly the same rate. This proves without a doubt that praying to God has nothing to do with it; some humans are going to recover from their illness but ALL terminally ill people are going to die at some point in the near future. No one is cured as a result of prayer. Study after study has borne this fact out.

There is no reason for people to believe in Jesus as the savior son of God when we haven't a single entry in the secular historic record testifying that he is. People who choose to believe in Jesus as their savior are doing so in ignorance of all the above, or they are doing it on pure faith without any evidence for Jesus. It's a crying shame that people can throw their lives away so carelessly for a myth, but it's a free country and people are permitted to squander their lives on anything they want, even the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

View attachment 77669

 

[Faithofchristian]

There is NO secular historical evidence for Jesus, son of God or the apostles, period. Despite all the propaganda Christians put forth about there being so much evidence for Jesus in the historical record, it is just disinformation disguised as truth to keep Christianity afloat. The truth is there simply is no secular historical evidence an avatar god man named Jesus as described in the gospels ever lived--nor did the 12 men he supposedly gathered around him and walked with them for 3 years before being crucified. NONE of this is supported by historical fact. No historian mentions all the supernatural events that the gospels claim occurred after Christ's supposed crucifixion, even though the Gospels claim Jesus' fame spread far beyond the borders of Israel. There may be a possibility an ordinary man who was a Jewish zealot was crucified by the Romans for sedition against Rome but again no historian mentions one.

The two passages by Josephus so often cited by Christians as mentioning Jesus are so mired in controversy that they are dismissed by mainstream historians as having little to no value in trying to prove Jesus existed. Here are some pertinent facts that Christians should consider before they try to pass off these passages as proof of Jesus:

* The Testimonium Flavianum is never quoted by anyone until the 4th century (c. 324), when Bishop Eusebius begins quoting it. Scholars believe it was Eusebius who doctored the passage with references to Jesus' supernatural nature.

* It is impossible that this passage is entirely genuine. It is highly unlikely that Josephus, a Jew working in concert with the Romans, would have written, "He was the Messiah." This would make him suspect of treason. Indeed, in Wars of the Jews, Josephus declares that Vespasian fulfilled the messianic oracles. Furthermore, Origen, writing about a century before Eusebius, says twice that Josephus "did not believe in Jesus as the Christ."

* Josephus is on record that the Emperor Vespasian was the messiah and had fulfilled prophecy.

* The second passage of Josephus, "The brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James.” is a scribal interpolation. There are several indications that the sentence fragment “who was called Christ” was not original to the text.

Here is a link to some research that will help to clear up the controversy surrounding the Josephus passages:

Josephus and Jesus: The Testimonium Flavianum Question

The gospels were NOT written by the apostles or anyone connected to Jesus or the fictional apostles. The gospels were written 50-100 years after Jesus purportedly was crucified in 30 AD by anonymous Greek scholars who couldn't have known Jesus and certainly were not familiar with Israel's geographic terrain as evidenced by the numerous errors they made about towns' proximity to each other and to other natural terrain. The Romans were excellent record keepers of their trials but a trial of Jesus ben Joseph or similar name who was crucified under Pilate's order simply doesn't exist. The name Yeshua ben Joseph or Yeshua Moshiach (Jesus Christ) doesn't appear anywhere in the historical record. A few historians like Tacitus made reference to a man referred to as "Chrestus" but we have no idea who that is nor can we know or reasonably ascertain if they were referring to Jesus, the son of God or another Chrestus who had a following. What we Do know is that Christians are constantly trying to pass off this passage and similar ones using the term, "Christ" as proof secular historians mention Jesus. But they don't. There were dozens of "Christs" in Jesus' time. Any of them could lay claim to being the Messiah.

If God had wanted us to believe Jesus is his divine son sent to earth to die for our sins, God would have left a mountain of evidence proving this that would be so compelling that no one in their right mind could argue otherwise.

But God left no such compelling evidence. The proof for this fact is truth No 1 above. That would mean the Christian god, if he even exists, doesn't give a tinker's damn whether or not we believe in Jesus. God, if he exists, shows himself to not interfere or participate in human affairs. Thus, he could not have left any evidence for this Jesus fellow and this is exactly what we see in the secular historic record--NO mention of Jesus or the apostles.

An unassailable truth: prayers do not get answered, in contrast to what Jesus promises in the gospels. Millions upon millions of people pray every day for their sick loved ones to get well and their loved ones do not recover. If a person recovers it is usually on the order of 10% and here is the key thing: it occurs across all demographics with the SAME rate of frequency. Thus, a small percentage of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and atheists all recover from serious illness at exactly the same rate. This proves without a doubt that praying to God has nothing to do with it; some humans are going to recover from their illness but ALL terminally ill people are going to die at some point in the near future. No one is cured as a result of prayer. Study after study has borne this fact out.

There is no reason for people to believe in Jesus as the savior son of God when we haven't a single entry in the secular historic record testifying that he is. People who choose to believe in Jesus as their savior are doing so in ignorance of all the above, or they are doing it on pure faith without any evidence for Jesus. It's a crying shame that people can throw their lives away so carelessly for a myth, but it's a free country and people are permitted to squander their lives on anything they want, even the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

View attachment 77669

There is historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the earth a little over 2000 years ago.
If however you know where to look
For the Historical evidence of Jesus Christ..

Let's for say, someone hold's a knife to your throat and tells you to give up the lie..which they believe what you say is a lie.
Now if it's a lie... Human nature tells us..a person will definitely give up the lie .rather than die for a lie.

So there is historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the Earth. 2000 years ago..
inside the Bible and outside of the Bible evidence..
about the historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the earth a little over
2000 years ago.

Let's go outside of the Bible for the proof of evidence of the historical evidence of Jesus Christ.

here we find Many Christians were put to death, in the Roman Colosseum..some 2000 years ago.

All because they would not give up the Truth, which they held. witnessing and hearing
Jesus Christ..
Christians were put to death in the Roman colosseum by wild animals.
For the Truth which they held..

So here lays the Historical evidence Jesus Christ did walk the earth
2000 years ago.

Now let's go to the bible
Back at the time Jesus Christ walking the earth 2000
years ago ...

Look at all those thousand of people who followed
Jesus Christ..giving witness and hearing Jesus Christ speaking.

A lot of those people were put to death... because the emperor of Rome.
Believed what they were saying was a lie .
Those people at the time of Jesus Christ...went to their graves for the Truth which they held of the historical evidence of Jesus Christ did actually walk the earth 2000 years ago.
Here lays the historical evidence of Jesus Christ did walk the earth over some 2000 years ago.....

So either all those Christians back 2000 years ago, went to their grave base on a lie.
But human nature tells us people will give up the lie, reather than put to death for a lie..
Those people went to their graves for the truth they held..of Jesus Christ.

You see those people back then held on to the Truth even to the point of death....so that we today can know without a doubt Gods Word is all Truth .
So there lays the historical evidence of Jesus Christ...

Outside of the Bible and inside the Bible.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There is historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the earth a little over 2000 years ago.
If however you know where to look
For the Historical evidence of Jesus Christ..

Let's for say, someone hold's a knife to your throat and tells you to give up the lie..which they believe what you say is a lie.
Now if it's a lie... Human nature tells us..a person will definitely give up the lie .rather than die for a lie.

So there is historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the Earth. 2000 years ago..
inside the Bible and outside of the Bible evidence..
about the historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the earth a little over
2000 years ago.

Let's go outside of the Bible for the proof of evidence of the historical evidence of Jesus Christ.

here we find Many Christians were put to death, in the Roman Colosseum..
A little over 2000 years ago.

All because they would not give up the Truth, which they held. witnessing and hearing Jesus Christ.
Christians were put to death in the Roman colosseum by wild animals.
For the Truth which they held..
Human nature tells us when face with death, rather than hold on to a lie, people will give up the LIE.

So here lays the Historical evidence Jesus Christ did walk the earth
2000 years ago.

Now let's go to the bible
Back at the time Jesus Christ walking the earth 2000
years ago ...

Look at all those thousand of people who followed Jesus Christ..giving witness and hearing Jesus Christ speaking.

A lot of those people were put to death... because the emperor of Rome.
Believed what they were saying was a lie .
Those people at the time of Jesus Christ...went to their graves for the Truth which they held of the historical evidence of Jesus Christ did actually walk the earth 2000 years ago.
Here lays the historical evidence of Jesus Christ did walk the earth over some 2000 years ago.....

So either all those Christians back 2000 years ago, went to their grave base on a lie.
But human nature tells us people will give up the lie, reather than put to death for a lie..
Those people went to their graves for the truth they held..of Jesus Christ.

You see those people back then held on to the Truth even to the point of death....so that we today can know without a doubt Gods Word is all Truth .
So there lays the historical evidence of Jesus Christ...
Outside of the Bible and inside the Bible

The only evidence is people give their lives for fabrications and ideologies. It's not unusual nor unheard of throughout history right up to the modern era, and the mythology and lore of Christ is no exception here.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The only evidence is people give their lives for fabrications and ideologies. It's not unusual nor unheard of throughout history right up to the modern era, and the mythology and lore of Christ is no exception here.

So you say..that does not change the fact..
You say there's historical evidence for Jesus Christ.

The only evidence is people give their lives for fabrications and ideologies. It's not unusual nor unheard of throughout history right up to the modern era, and the mythology and lore of Christ is no exception here.

My question to you is .
Your called into question by your own question
So What proof of evidence do you have to back up what your saying

Therefore the burden of proof lays with you and no one else.
You spoke it, now give your evidence to back up what your saying .
Without any proof of evidence your question is void, empty, meaningless.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The only evidence is people give their lives for fabrications and ideologies. It's not unusual nor unheard of throughout history right up to the modern era, and the mythology and lore of Christ is no exception here.

As far as I'm concerned, I wasted decades of my life believing in God and Jesus as well as being a Christian. Becoming a Christian was one of the worst decisions I've ever made because it turned out to be a nightmare for me. Renouncing my Christian faith and belief in God, on the other hand, was one of the best decisions I've ever made for my emotional well-being and mental health. My decision to disavow my faith and abandon Christianity was second only to the decision I made at the age of 18 to confront my adopted brother in an effort to stop him from abusing me. I saved myself from being abused.

 

[Thrillobyte]

Whether Paul is actually lying about any of this

Paul admitted to lying to spread his gospel. He said

"If through my lying Jesus is advanced then why do you blame me?" Romans 3:7

 

[Thrillobyte]

There is historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the earth a little over 2000 years ago.
If however you know where to look
For the Historical evidence of Jesus Christ..

Let's for say, someone hold's a knife to your throat and tells you to give up the lie..which they believe what you say is a lie.
Now if it's a lie... Human nature tells us..a person will definitely give up the lie .rather than die for a lie.

So there is historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the Earth. 2000 years ago..
inside the Bible and outside of the Bible evidence..
about the historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the earth a little over
2000 years ago.

Let's go outside of the Bible for the proof of evidence of the historical evidence of Jesus Christ.

here we find Many Christians were put to death, in the Roman Colosseum..some 2000 years ago.

All because they would not give up the Truth, which they held. witnessing and hearing
Jesus Christ..
Christians were put to death in the Roman colosseum by wild animals.
For the Truth which they held..

So here lays the Historical evidence Jesus Christ did walk the earth
2000 years ago.

Now let's go to the bible
Back at the time Jesus Christ walking the earth 2000
years ago ...

Look at all those thousand of people who followed
Jesus Christ..giving witness and hearing Jesus Christ speaking.

A lot of those people were put to death... because the emperor of Rome.
Believed what they were saying was a lie .
Those people at the time of Jesus Christ...went to their graves for the Truth which they held of the historical evidence of Jesus Christ did actually walk the earth 2000 years ago.
Here lays the historical evidence of Jesus Christ did walk the earth over some 2000 years ago.....

So either all those Christians back 2000 years ago, went to their grave base on a lie.
But human nature tells us people will give up the lie, reather than put to death for a lie..
Those people went to their graves for the truth they held..of Jesus Christ.

You see those people back then held on to the Truth even to the point of death....so that we today can know without a doubt Gods Word is all Truth .
So there lays the historical evidence of Jesus Christ...

Outside of the Bible and inside the Bible

You;'re making all this too simplistic, Faith. People die for a lie all the time albeit unknowingly. You believe Islam is a lie, don't you? But Islamists blow themselves up all the time. Are they blowing themselves up for a lie, or do they believe that what they are blowing themselves up for is the truth? What is the difference between suicide bombers and the early Christians? None that I can see.

Christians who were devoured in the Coliseum were being martyred 300 years after Jesus. Someone told them, "If you die for Jesus you will go straight to heaven into Jesus' arms for eternity". They believed it, true or false, and chose to die for Jesus. That's not proof Jesus was real. It's exactly what Imams tell suicide bombers, "If you die for Allah you will go straight to Paradise and be welcomed by 72 virgins for eternity." So both are exactly the same. One can't be right and the other wrong unless you have a sincere belief the Christians will go to heaven if they die for Jesus but the Islamists will NOT to to heaven if they die for Allah.

Show me a single historian in the first century who says, "Jesus of Nazareth was crucified, died and rose from the dead."

Reminds me of one of my favorite lines:

"More bad news for the suicide bombers. Know how they're told if they blow themselves up they'll get 72 virgins? Turns out it's one 72-year-old virgin."

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

that first generation Christians where already proclaiming the resurrection that is what I mean by "talk of resurrection" The implication is that the resurrection is not a legend that developed over the years.

How does that argue against the claim of resurrection being a fiction added years after Christ's death?

Because we have Paul + the Gospels affirming that there was a resurrection………… the alternative is that just by chance, Paul and the authors of the gospels invented the exact same miracle and the exact same lie. (which is unlikely)

There are other explanations possible and in fact more likely than that a resurrection occurred. We know that the Gospel writers weren't independent sources. Mark informed Matthew and Luke, who informed John. And all were informed by Paul's epistles. Paul probably was the source of the addition. He says that Jesus was raised in I Corinthians, which is dated to about 50-55 CE. The Gospels all came later. And the story of the risen god or demigod is older than all of them.

I've read that the 3 magi/wisemen and the star they followed was likely some major astronomical event

That seems reasonable. What's unreasonable is to think that one can follow a star to a manger. To follow a star, you would need to walk the distance of the circumference of the earth at your latitude (about 25,000 miles at the equator) in 24 hours. This is about 1000 mph. And then to say it stopped above a manger allowing identification of it is pretty antithetical to experience.

I'm sourcing revelation from celestial beings who know whereof they speak.

Why do you think that? Most of it you read.

What proof of evidence do you have to back up what your saying

That was in response to, "The only evidence is people give their lives for fabrications and ideologies. It's not unusual nor unheard of throughout history right up to the modern era, and the mythology and lore of Christ is no exception here." Are you unaware of the people who have willingly died or risked death because of false beliefs? Where do you think the Heaven's Gate people are right now - on a comet or decomposing in the earth? How many people drank poison at Jonestown or burned to death at Waco for a false belief? I'd say that American soldiers who died in wars since World War II died for a false belief.

Therefore the burden of proof lays with you and no one else.

There is no burden of proof to the faithful. Evidence soundly understood is not their standard for belief. And many evaluate arguments and evidence through a faith-based confirmation bias that exists to defend them from the implications of that evidence. To demonstrate the soundness of a claim, one needs a student willing and able to evaluate an argument for soundness and be convinced by a compelling argument.

 

[SkepticThinker]

that first generation christians where already proclaiming the resurection that is what I mean by "talk of resurrection" The implication is that the resurrection is not a legend that developed over the years.

Specific quotes please.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

To follow a star, you would need to walk the distance of the circumference of the earth at your latitude (about 25,000 miles at the equator) in 24 hours.

However, if you already knew where you were going, you can navigate there by the stars! It's how we navigated the seas for millennia.

In the northern hemisphere we can use Polaris to point to almost directly cardinal north. Likewise, the star at the foot of the Southern Cross constellation in the southern hemisphere points cardinal south.

In the past we've used other stars/constellations for this purpose, due to the procession of Earth's equinoxes.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Because we have Paul + the Gospels affirming that there was a resurrection…………

Why do you think those are independent sources?

Paul only claims to have seen some light and heard a phantom voice claiming to be Jesus. I don't know why you consider that to be confirmation of any resurrection of a dead person. I mean, I had a vivid dream just last night that my grandmother had come to visit me. Does that convince you that my grandmother has been resurrected from the dead and came to speak with me? I actually saw her AND heard her voice.

the alternative is that just by chance, Paul and the authors of the gospels invented the exact same miracle and the exact same lie. (which is unlikely)

The Gospels aren't eyewitness accounts of anything (aka hearsay) and they're not all independent sources, given that they're all a part of the exact same source - The Bible. Not to mention the fact that all of the stories differ, to varying degrees, so not exactly "the exact same lie."

 

[SkepticThinker]

There is historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the earth a little over 2000 years ago.
If however you know where to look
For the Historical evidence of Jesus Christ..

Let's for say, someone hold's a knife to your throat and tells you to give up the lie..which they believe what you say is a lie.
Now if it's a lie... Human nature tells us..a person will definitely give up the lie .rather than die for a lie.

So there is historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the Earth. 2000 years ago..
inside the Bible and outside of the Bible evidence..
about the historical evidence of Jesus Christ walking the earth a little over
2000 years ago.

Let's go outside of the Bible for the proof of evidence of the historical evidence of Jesus Christ.

here we find Many Christians were put to death, in the Roman Colosseum..some 2000 years ago.

All because they would not give up the Truth, which they held. witnessing and hearing
Jesus Christ..
Christians were put to death in the Roman colosseum by wild animals.
For the Truth which they held..

So here lays the Historical evidence Jesus Christ did walk the earth
2000 years ago.

Now let's go to the bible
Back at the time Jesus Christ walking the earth 2000
years ago ...

Look at all those thousand of people who followed
Jesus Christ..giving witness and hearing Jesus Christ speaking.

A lot of those people were put to death... because the emperor of Rome.
Believed what they were saying was a lie .
Those people at the time of Jesus Christ...went to their graves for the Truth which they held of the historical evidence of Jesus Christ did actually walk the earth 2000 years ago.
Here lays the historical evidence of Jesus Christ did walk the earth over some 2000 years ago.....

So either all those Christians back 2000 years ago, went to their grave base on a lie.
But human nature tells us people will give up the lie, reather than put to death for a lie..
Those people went to their graves for the truth they held..of Jesus Christ.

You see those people back then held on to the Truth even to the point of death....so that we today can know without a doubt Gods Word is all Truth .
So there lays the historical evidence of Jesus Christ...

Outside of the Bible and inside the Bible.

I'm sorry, but this is a terrible argument. People can and do die for lies all the time. That's not a good criterion for deciding whether something is true or not.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Apologies if this has been brought up, but I'm not about to slog through 99 pages:

It seems to me that there must be some historicity to the Jesus stories, because look at the alternative: If Jesus was a fabrication, then the stories surrounding him are also heroic fabrications... but that presents some problems:

For example, the Gospels are clear that Jesus was born in Nazareth, in the province of Galilee. This was not something to boast about back in the day. "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" (John 1:46)
In fact, since the prophecies state that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem, both Matthew and Luke had to concoct separate (and frankly, mutually exclusive) stories about how Jesus of Nazareth could be born in Bethlehem.

Also, look at this event told first in Mark, then in Matthew:

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
This is important -- There is no reference to a father. Jesus is identified as the son of Mary... and being identified to a woman was an insult in those times... it implied that paternity was either unknown or in question.
Is this a stretch? Possibly, but if so, when then did Matthew, writing about the same incident for a much more conservative audience, write:
Matthew 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
See the change? The carpenter has become the carpenter's son; Matthew has created a father out of thin air. Matthew saw the implied insult in Mark's version, and decided to get rid of it.

What does this have to do with Jesus' historicity? Simple: If Jesus was a completely fictional creation, why add embarrassing or ignoble details to his story that later storytellers would have to either work around or edit out? Why not just make his life perfect from the get-go?

Because there were certain historical truths still in the memories of the people who knew of him that couldn't be ignored... they had to be addressed.

 

[Twilight Hue]

........

My question to you is .
Your called into question by your own question
So What proof of evidence do you have to back up what your saying

Therefore the burden of proof lays with you and no one else.
You spoke it, now give your evidence to back up what your saying .
Without any proof of evidence your question is void, empty, meaningless.

Most recent I recall is John Allen Chau.

John Allen Chau - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Multiple others as well died soley from reading an old mythological series of books called the Bible whom were out to spread all that ancient mythology.

That's the direct evidence and a horrible waste of a life on what is essentially a whim and a notion with absolutely nothing to show for it aside from the fairy tales spun from the bible. No different than tales told of Thor, Apollo, Zeus, Isis, Hercules, Poseidon etc.

It's pretty meaningful if one does not want or desire to get killed over tales and lore like those that did already.

Hence the proof and pretty solid proof if you ask me.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Apologies if this has been brought up, but I'm not about to slog through 99 pages:

It seems to me that there must be some historicity to the Jesus stories, because look at the alternative: If Jesus was a fabrication, then the stories surrounding him are also heroic fabrications... but that presents some problems:

For example, the Gospels are clear that Jesus was born in Nazareth, in the province of Galilee. This was not something to boast about back in the day. "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" (John 1:46)
In fact, since the prophecies state that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem, both Matthew and Luke had to concoct separate (and frankly, mutually exclusive) stories about how Jesus of Nazareth could be born in Bethlehem.

Also, look at this event told first in Mark, then in Matthew:

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
This is important -- There is no reference to a father. Jesus is identified as the son of Mary... and being identified to a woman was an insult in those times... it implied that paternity was either unknown or in question.
Is this a stretch? Possibly, but if so, when then did Matthew, writing about the same incident for a much more conservative audience, write:
Matthew 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
See the change? The carpenter has become the carpenter's son; Matthew has created a father out of thin air. Matthew saw the implied insult in Mark's version, and decided to get rid of it.

What does this have to do with Jesus' historicity? Simple: If Jesus was a completely fictional creation, why add embarrassing or ignoble details to his story that later storytellers would have to either work around or edit out? Why not just make his life perfect from the get-go?

Because there were certain historical truths still in the memories of the people who knew of him that couldn't be ignored... they had to be addressed.

I guess that applies to the Roman and Greek gods and demi-gods as well with that logic.

They all were real people. Right?

 

[lukethethird]

I would presume, this is because the ruling hierarchies in any nation of civilization I can think of, was that of the 'priesthood' of that culture such as shaman, seers, magi, priests, and prophets. Even in systems with a singular ruler at the top, they were often considered the holiest person, their position being 'divine right' mandated by God.

The only scribes were employed by the state so were all obligated to do everything with religiosity and compelled to favor the current ruling body when making records. I can only imagine how tedious this must make it to sift through historical records and determine what is fictional or real.

Personally, I'd lie and keep my head if I were a scribe back then, so I haven't one iota of blame for them... I'd be like:

"King Such-N-Such was 25' tall and bare-handedly wrestled a bull elephant to the ground by himself, as a toddler!! He wooed every single woman on the planet by the mere mention of his name!! It was his bellow that caused the Earth's plates to begin shifting!! Give thanks to King Such-N-Such for falling from the stars and gracing Earth with his magnanimous compassion!!!" - Mark the Honest ​

There is a long list of writers from the first century that don't mention Jesus that otherwise wrote of religions, even Philo who wrote essays on the first born son of God did not mention Jesus. Philo was a contemporary of Pilate, we have some facts and his opinions regarding Pilate, but no Jesus.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I'm sorry, but this is a terrible argument. People can and do die for lies all the time. That's not a good criterion for deciding whether something is true or not.

Yes people may lie all the time
But if someone held a a knife to your throat and told you to give up the lie or die.
Now would you be so willing to die for a lie ??

 

[lukethethird]

Yes people may lie all the time
But if someone held a a knife to your throat and told you to give up the lie or die.
Now would you be so willing to die for a lie ??

These stories of Christian martyrs are exaggerations. Why do you swallow this stuff?