THERE Is no super being i will tell you why

[Beaudreaux]

I find this thread terribly amusing. God doesn't exist because He's mean to me? People need to grow up and stop this nonsense.

God does not exist because He is supposed to be All-Good and All-Powerful and there is zero evidence of such a being. Theodicy is not a childish subject. Aquinas, Augustine, J.S. Mill and countless other great thinkers did not feel the need to "grow up". They rightly understood it as a serious problem with Christian theology.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Why should He? Where do you draw the line? Should He prevent land mines but allow kids to fall down and skin their knees? Should He prevent tsunamis but allow people to have boating accidents? Should He strike rapists dead but allow shoplifters to get away with it?

He should allow no evil whatsoever. No suffering, no evil, no sin, no death. I find it odd that people do not think God should be good.

 

[Beaudreaux]

How many kids should He let die? Millions are apparently too many. Would thousands be acceptable? How about hundreds? None? Okay, so if God didn't allow any kids to die from painful diseases, how about adults? At what age should God decide to end someone's life?

A truly good and all-powerful God should not allow death at all.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Change and death are part of life, would you rather have a static unchanging world that holds no challenge or growth?

Wow. A world without death or pain. Sounds....oh what's the word?......Heavenly?

 

[Beaudreaux]

If God played the role most people seem to want, there would be no hospitals, no doctors no clinics, no dentist, no nursing homes, we wouldnt even need day care God would watch them,no police or highway patrol, no body shops since no one would have a wreck,no insurance for homes or cars,no fire department, shelfs would become empty,with no asprin or any other medicine.The list does go on.

Wow. THat sounds.....what's the word?...wait I just had it.....Oh yeah! Heavenly!

 

[MoonWater]

Does that seem just to you?

No, it doesn't, but then I don't believe in it. In case you haven't noticed I'm not catholic... I'm not even Christian.

 

[MoonWater]

You do this when you say:

If God can defeat ALL evil, pain and suffering in the world, there would be no "list" to "move on down"because there would be nothing to complain about. If, as I believe you are saying, there MUST always be the next thing to complain about, then God is not capable of eliminating all evil and suffering from the world.

Except he can eliminate all our complaints and eliminate all evil... By eliminating us, or seeing to it that we have no free will whatsoever and turn us into nothing but mindless automatons. Are you trying to argue that simply because god doesn't cater to our every whim and make sure we don't ever so much as scrape a knee it means he cannot possibly be benevolent? The parent which sees to it that their child never suffers will wind up with only an ungrateful spoiled brat or a coddled whimp unable to do anything for themselves.

This is highly debatable. Here is a list of pain and suffering NOT caused by man that certainly could have been prevented by an omnipotent God. This is ONLY diseases and does not include figures from other natural disasters which I can provide if you feel this is unconvincing.

Death Toll Event

approx. 300,000,000 Smallpox
approx. 100,000,000 Bubonic Plague: Black Death
≥ 200,000,000 Measles
80,000,000–250,000,000 Malaria
50,000,000–100,000,000 Spanish Flu
40,000,000–100,000,000 Tuberculosis
approx. 40,000,000 Bubonic Plague: Plague of Justinian
25,250,000 AIDS
≥ 12,000,000 Bubonic Plague: Third Pandemic
5,000,000 Antonine Plague
4,000,000 Asian Flu pandemic
750,000 Hong Kong Flu pandemic

​

Please keep in mind that the death toll is only one measure of the tremendous human pain and suffering caused by these events.

A lot of these plagues are caused by us though. True we may not have invented the viruses but poor hygeine poor health, crowded spaces, these things are just breeding grounds for such things.

You could also consider it population control. If people never died every corner of the earth would be filled by now.

So, a woman who's 3 year is ripped from her arms by a Tsunami while she watches helplessly as it is dragged off in terror to drown and you tell her that such a thing was necessary because the earth needs to "balance itself out"? Not compelling IMHO.

I said the earthquake itself was necessary. If it weren't for plate tectonics there would be no land above water and thus nothing for us to stand on. But with those moving plates comes earthquakes. A tsunami is a natural reaction to an earthquake that happens in the ocean. I'm not saying the child's death was "necessary".

Please explain how children who die of pediatric cancer are passing a test.

You'd have to ask a Christian who actually holds this view that question. I do not personally hold it, I was just relaying what little I knew about it. Though I imagine the "test" could be in how they react to the cancer and to the short time they have.

Again, the children who die of horrible disease are not better for the experience. A child who is molested does not become stronger. They must deal with the pain of that experience for the rest of their lives. I admire your effort to hold God blameless, but it does not compel.

A friend of mine has a saying: "pain is weakness leaving the body." If one does not let their pain and suffering destroy them or tear them down it will make them stronger, it all depends on how they choose to deal with it. Trust me I know pain, i don't say these words without experience behind them. I have lost many loved ones over the past couple years and yes I will have to spend the rest of my life with the pain of their loss. But from their deaths I have also learned how to let go and move on rather than dwell on the past.

Why do you insist that any god that exists must be evil and sadistic simply because he doesn't coddle us like an over protective parent?

 

[MoonWater]

Wow. A world without death or pain. Sounds....oh what's the word?......Heavenly?

A world without challenge or growth sounds more like hell to me. I have no interest in heaven.

 

[Beaudreaux]

No, it doesn't, but then I don't believe in it. In case you haven't noticed I'm not catholic... I'm not even Christian.

I don't believe it either. I know very well that Original Sin is used to explain things in Christianity, but like so many other aspects of that theology, it makes little sense. Why punish people for something someone else did?

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

Wow. A world without death or pain. Sounds....oh what's the word?......Heavenly?

So in essence you would rather have a world that is changeless and static.
You wouldn't be able to do anything in a world without change, no movement, no growth, no rain or sun rises, no birth, everything would stand perfectly still. It would be like being locked in a photograph where you are frozen in time.

Doesn't sound like a world worth living in . . . if you could call that living.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

I would love a world where no one else could die and no one else could be born. I'd hope we could figure out how to kill some of the rapists and murderers though, so we'd have more room for everyone else...

I don't know it sounds kind of selfish to me but then again our whole world would be a different place and we wouldn't know any different I suppose.

Murderers wouldn't exist because no one could die as for rapists I would hope our societal outlook would be a whole lot different and rape would be unknown also.

 

[Brahman]

rickdawgg i think you need to settle down a bit and listen here ok. By no means am i saying that suffering hurts, because it does. But that does not mean there is no hope. you are just going threw a hard time, it WILL get better. if you have faith you will get threw it. right now your just taking your anger out on God. People throughout history have done this. and i think your paying attention to the external world too much. you say where is god, i dont see him. but his work is in you. look inside and you will see gods magic working. Just have faith in God and look inside yourself and all suffering will dissolve!

 

[Riverwolf]

Wow. A world without death or pain. Sounds....oh what's the word?......Heavenly?

No death... how can there be a greater hell than eternal life? No pain... stagnation. No pain, no growth.

Stagnation.

Nothing.

 

[Alla Prima]

Your understanding of what a god(s) is is limited to what you think it is or should be.

You begin from the assumption (or belief) that 'God' exists, so your comment is extremely biased and in fact ridiculous.

 

[painted wolf]

God does not exist because He is supposed to be All-Good and All-Powerful and there is zero evidence of such a being. Theodicy is not a childish subject. Aquinas, Augustine, J.S. Mill and countless other great thinkers did not feel the need to "grow up". They rightly understood it as a serious problem with Christian theology.

Wait.... Creator is supposed to be all-good ?

wa:do

 

[Perfect Circle]

Wait.... Creator is supposed to be all-good ?

wa:do

I know it's not technically what the OP was about (existence of god), but I'm fairly sure Beaudreaux did mention that it was a problem with Christian theology.

And for what it's worth... I've been reading through this entire thread for the better part of an hour, and Beaudreaux's arguments make the most sense to me by far. All he is saying is that a benevolent (i.e. good, kind, humane, generous, liberal, benign, philanthropic, altruistic) god can't exist. He backs this up by providing multiple examples of instances in which a such a god had the power to intervene in a benevolent manner, and did not. It follows, then, that if a god exists he/she/it is not benevolent. Does it not?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It follows, then, that if a god exists he/she/it is not benevolent. Does it not?

Not if you just really, really don't want it to.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Why should He? Where do you draw the line? Should He prevent land mines but allow kids to fall down and skin their knees? Should He prevent tsunamis but allow people to have boating accidents? Should He strike rapists dead but allow shoplifters to get away with it?

Again, I don't think the argument (at least the way I'm interpreting it) is that he should, but that if he were a benevolent god, he would. Furthermore, he is god right? Why can't he draw the line? He did so multiple times throughout the old testament.

 

[Beaudreaux]

and for what it's worth... I've been reading through this entire thread for the better part of an hour, and beaudreaux's arguments make the most sense to me by far.

Snap!!!

 

[painted wolf]

I know it's not technically what the OP was about (existence of god), but I'm fairly sure Beaudreaux did mention that it was a problem with Christian theology.

And for what it's worth... I've been reading through this entire thread for the better part of an hour, and Beaudreaux's arguments make the most sense to me by far. All he is saying is that a benevolent (i.e. good, kind, humane, generous, liberal, benign, philanthropic, altruistic) god can't exist. He backs this up by providing multiple examples of instances in which a such a god had the power to intervene in a benevolent manner, and did not. It follows, then, that if a god exists he/she/it is not benevolent. Does it not?

If one believes in an ALL benevolent god... I personally do not believe in such a simplistic deity.
Thus Beaudreaux's arguments seem to fall flat to me.

wa:do