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There's no evidence that there is a creator?

In your lifetime, do you believe you have seen evidence that God exists?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 28.6%
  • No

    Votes: 20 71.4%

  • Total voters
    28

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Here is the answer

What is God ?

God is a question!

What is that question?

How did all of ''this'' begin!

How did it begin?

A+B=1
I'm not a prophet...for whatever reason...God speaks to a select few people, and works miracles at times that have baffled Doctors and Scientists...God remains a mystery...I wish I had the answers...But for whatever reason, the way God speaks to most people is likely a vision in the imagination, an inspiration, an impression, a conviction of heart, a change of heart, signs in nature...that when a supernatural entity influences most people they don't even realize it and attribute it to themselves.
 

james blunt

Well-Known Member
I'm not a prophet...for whatever reason...God speaks to a select few people, and works miracles at times that have baffled Doctors and Scientists...God remains a mystery...I wish I had the answers...But for whatever reason, the way God speaks to most people is likely a vision in the imagination, an inspiration, an impression, a conviction of heart, a change of heart, signs in nature...that when a supernatural entity influences most people they don't even realize it and attribute it to themselves.
I ask a question in my mind to myself and myself gives me the answer, but who is myself that gives me the answers? I do not get that answer back .
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member

You actually have misunderstood me. We have been over this before, I do not out right deny the potential of the miraculous, but the claims to justify and attribute to ONE religious belief is egocentric as you are doing go far beyond reasonable and logical, and for the most part may have a natural explanation.

Many things like you cite remain unexplained, and yes likely unexplainable. I prefer the Baha'i view concerning claims of miracles.

There are possible miracles in the Baha'i Faith in its formative years that are well documented by non-Baha'is or non-Babis as may be the case, but . . .

From: Baha’is and Miracles

. . . for the Manifestations these miracles and wonderful signs have no importance. They do not even wish to mention them. For if we consider miracles a great proof, they are still only proofs and arguments for those who are present when they are performed, and not for those who are absent.
Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 99.

So are miracles possible? Certainly some Baha’is believe they have seen miraculous events occur, or even experienced them. However, the Baha’i Faith does not present miracles as a proof of anything; and in addition, Baha’u’llah specifically asked the Baha’is to not relate miracle stories, writing:

We entreat Our loved ones not to besmirch the hem of Our raiment with the dust of falsehood, neither to allow references to what they have regarded as miracles and prodigies to debase Our rank and station, or to mar the purity and sanctity of Our name.Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 33
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
You actually have misunderstood me. We have been over this before, I do not out right deny the potential of the miraculous, but the claims to justify and attribute to ONE religious belief is egocentric as you are doing go far beyond reasonable and logical, and for the most part may have a natural explanation.

Many things like you cite remain unexplained, and yes likely unexplainable. I prefer the Baha'i view concerning claims of miracles.

There are possible miracles in the Baha'i Faith in its formative years that are well documented by non-Baha'is or non-Babis as may be the case, but . . .

From: Baha’is and Miracles

. . . for the Manifestations these miracles and wonderful signs have no importance. They do not even wish to mention them. For if we consider miracles a great proof, they are still only proofs and arguments for those who are present when they are performed, and not for those who are absent.
Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 99.

So are miracles possible? Certainly some Baha’is believe they have seen miraculous events occur, or even experienced them. However, the Baha’i Faith does not present miracles as a proof of anything; and in addition, Baha’u’llah specifically asked the Baha’is to not relate miracle stories, writing:

We entreat Our loved ones not to besmirch the hem of Our raiment with the dust of falsehood, neither to allow references to what they have regarded as miracles and prodigies to debase Our rank and station, or to mar the purity and sanctity of Our name.Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 33

Yes, you didn't explain yourself well.

just for a minute I thought you said:

The claims of the miraculous consistently loose when the evidence is critically evaluated.

So, now that we have established there are miracles, could you please reference me where I EVER said "but the claims to justify and attribute to ONE religious belief is egocentric"?

Or is that just another one of not explaining yourself well? :rolleyes:
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Yes, you didn't explain yourself well.

just for a minute I thought you said:



So, now that we have established there are miracles, could you please reference me where I EVER said "but the claims to justify and attribute to ONE religious belief is egocentric"?

Or is that just another one of not explaining yourself well? :rolleyes:

Reread my posts carefully, and the Baha'i references. Absolutely NO from the human perspective we have NOT established that miracles are miracles nor can they be claimed as witness of anything, because they very well may have a natural explanation. Yes, miracles can possibly occur, but claims remain anecdotal and problematic especially when one claims them to justify ones own belief. Careful, I said POSSIBLE miracles, and not that events can be described from the human perspective as miraculous.

. . . and yes, The claims of the miraculous consistently loose when the evidence is critically evaluated.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I don't care how many vote no. You're all blind!

I know it's cliche "just look around" but that's literally it.

Every day, something is getting born. Something is growing. Human beings do not have the capacity with all of their science to make something that lives, grows, and evolves. Even if we did, the question of who did it first would immediately spring to mind. So, you can say all you want but:
  1. Science cannot make a single living thing. It can only make hybrids.
  2. Even if you say, did abiogenesis in a lab. That's life, created, in a lab. The whole premise proves, not disproves causal life. This by definition has a creator, just as you had to work to make it in a lab. Suddenly declaring what you spent hours or days (or weeks or years on) as without author would likely be enough to make you quit, and sue for lack of credit.
  3. But suppose you say that such arose randomly. Alrighty, then. Let's put monkeys in a room and surely they'll produce Shakespeare. But wait, no they won't because we're going to take away their tools like all pens, ink, typewriters (supposedly the atheist conception of creation happened before laws of science, so there are no forces of motion). And we'll take away the medium to write on, like paper (they also say there was nothing there at the time) and while we're at it, we'll take away the table and the workplace (no time or space either, nothing, remember). But we still have monkeys, even though we now have no typewriters, workplace, or tools. Right? Wrong. Remember, no creator. The monkeys are all fired. Unions protested because of unfair working conditions. You now have nobody working, at random, without any tools or workspace. Seriously, good luck.


Evolution is not, nor shall it ever be, mutually exclusive with the idea of a deity.


This a parody, right? You arent serious...? Plz say it is parody??
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Afraid not.

Totally serious. I don't expect you to agree, or even understand though.

I am a syncretic theist with some nature beliefs and pretty heavy panentheism. It is painfully obvious to me that some sort of creator exists. And honestly, almost insulting that they think of what I just said as a joke.

No more monkeys jumping on the... well anywhere. They're gone.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Afraid not.

Totally serious. I don't expect you to agree, or even understand though.

I am a syncretic theist with some nature beliefs and pretty heavy panentheism. It is painfully obvious to me that some sort of creator exists. And honestly, almost insulting that they think of what I just said as a joke.

No more monkeys jumping on the... well anywhere. They're gone.


Ok, easy enough, if painful, to understand. :D
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Reread my posts carefully, and the Baha'i references. Absolutely NO from the human perspective can miracles be claimed as witness of anything, because they very well may have a natural explanation. Yes, miracles can possibly occur, but claims remain anecdotal and problematic especially when one claims them to justify ones own belief. Careful, I said POSSIBLE miracles, and not that events can be described from the human perspective as miraculous.

. . . and yes, The claims of the miraculous consistently loose when the evidence is critically evaluated.

yes... there are :"can be", "possibly occur", "they must be anecdotal" and all the other if buts and ands.

However, critically viewing the information... it was a miracle.

Then again, if you don't believe in miracles, most likely you wont ever have one as Jesus laid the principle of "Be it unto thee as thou has believed" and by evidence as he preached into his own home town.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
yes... there are :"can be", "possibly occur", "they must be anecdotal" and all the other if buts and ands.

However, critically viewing the information... it was a miracle.

Not necessarily from the human perspective. At present the claimed miracles remain anecdotal.

Then again, if you don't believe in miracles, most likely you wont ever have one as Jesus laid the principle of "Be it unto thee as thou has believed" and by evidence as he preached into his own home town.

It is not a matter of belief it is a matter of context. Even if I 'believed' I experienced a miracle it remains possible that there is a natural explanation.

Actually in other Baha'i writings the supernatural and the miraculous are actually the natural not understood from the human perspectve, and boundary is not clear.
 
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Spiderman

Veteran Member
I ask a question in my mind to myself and myself gives me the answer, but who is myself that gives me the answers? I do not get that answer back .
Some people have strong conviction that they received the answer...yes, many of them are full of sh*t in certain areas...we are sinners, and our sins and woundedness and brokenness separates us from God (according to most monotheistic traditions)...if that is the case, it is understandable why there are nutcases and all sorts of Heresies and confusion and division....but that doesn't mean that there aren't pieces of truth found in each tradition including the polytheistic, and indigenous shaman and medicine man, and necromancy traditions...

They all believe they were receiving messages from a supernatural entity. I'm guessing many of them were under the influence of spirits. But there are spirits that deceive and cause confusion and division, which is why religion is so divided...but 93% of the world has an inner conviction that supernatural entities exist...these people may very well have those convictions due to the influence of a spiritual entity on their mind and heart.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
I can guess yes - it's to keep up the appearance that it doesn't matter whether He exists or not. And He's done a bang-up job on maintaining that so far. I can only imagine that over time He has perfected it. By now I would imagine that it truly does not matter whether He exists or not. He's done it! Wonder where I might go to congratulate Him?

Not so much that it doesn't matter if It exists or not, but that It's existence is irrelevant for us in this life. But that still doesn't address the Why? of it.
 
I found that the analogy of this question :


Al Sahabi of Al Nabi SAW said that all from Al Islam is not yet shown here and now . That's why .
 

james blunt

Well-Known Member
Some people have strong conviction that they received the answer...yes, many of them are full of sh*t in certain areas...we are sinners, and our sins and woundedness and brokenness separates us from God (according to most monotheistic traditions)...if that is the case, it is understandable why there are nutcases and all sorts of Heresies and confusion and division....but that doesn't mean that there aren't pieces of truth found in each tradition including the polytheistic, and indigenous shaman and medicine man, and necromancy traditions...

They all believe they were receiving messages from a supernatural entity. I'm guessing many of them were under the influence of spirits. But there are spirits that deceive and cause confusion and division, which is why religion is so divided...but 93% of the world has an inner conviction that supernatural entities exist...these people may very well have those convictions due to the influence of a spiritual entity on their mind and heart.
Human nature is to summarise things and speculate.

Jane - ''Have you heard about Jim down the road?''

Fred- ''No, I wonder if ?''

Jane - ''maybe, but what if ? ''

Fred - ''yes and maybe ? ''

By the end of the story Jim won huge on the lottery and developed super powers and went on holiday.

Actually , Jim won £10 on the lottery , got lucky and was down the local chip shop getting a bag of chips.

Subjective is never objective.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
I'm never serious! How dare you accuse me of such a serious offence, sir! ;)

The first step to that wisdom you speak of is learning when to be serious, when not, and telegraphing same in some manner--which is especially important with delicate discussions on a board using written language. The problem with never being serious (which I feel certain you don't really mean) is that no one would ever take you seriously, and you soon become a 100% joke.
 

james blunt

Well-Known Member
So why am I sad. :(

I am not sure whether you are asking me or asking a question. I am sad because I wasted my life playing the fool, being Peter Pan and never wanting to grow up. I am 45 this year I think lol and I still act the fool although I have intellect.
As for why you are sad, only you can answer that question by looking deep.
 
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