I think once people experience peace after a conflict such as this and just being able to do the simple things in life the last thing they want are militants,hopefully if a sustained peace could be achieved the same will happen in Palestine.
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These dogs, we had to shoot them all
- Thread starter TashaN
- Start date
I think once people experience peace after a conflict such as this and just being able to do the simple things in life the last thing they want are militants,hopefully if a sustained peace could be achieved the same will happen in Palestine.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
So you support extremism then? So its our fault extremists attack us? Please tell me i am misunderstanding you.
tomspug
Absorbant
Calling you intolerant isn't an attack. You clearly have chosen one side, seeing one as a demon and one as innocent, when neither is true.You don't have to attack me to prove your point.
This is a clear sign of the weakness of your argument and what you are defending. You know it, i know it, and all the words you use scream out of hypocrisy.
My position is one of realism. If that offends you, that is not something of my own creation.
tomspug
Absorbant
The reason we are seeing peace come to Iraq is the result of war in a similar way. Initially, the insurgents were supported, seen as defenders against the evils of the United States and the West... until they saw those insurgents bombing sacred temples and putting their lives in danger.
Sometimes people have to prove themselves wrong.
kai
ragamuffin
actually you could say that the militants put down their guns and used the ballot box, sinn fien now share in the rule of northern ireland. The problem is though the IRA/sinn fien never called for the destruction of England so there was always a basis for dialogue if the violence ended. and that ended in devolution for NI.
Their goals may still be a united ireland but thats now for the people to eventually decide not the gunmen.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Yet when Hamas won a valid election, no one gave them the chance (and possibly rightly so) to even attempt to have legitimate power. Just because the people you don't want to win, win... does not give you the right to suddenly delcare the whole thing null.
We wanted free elections, we didn't like the result... ironic eh?
wa:do
We wanted free elections, we didn't like the result... ironic eh?
wa:do
Elessar
Well-Known Member
They "won" the election in a certain sense - they won the largest number of seats in parliament. They still had to govern with a coalition, and Prime Minister had to be appointed by the elected President, from Fattah. Because Hamas was not happy with the amount of power Fattah still wielded (holding the presidency), they initiated a purge in the Gaza of all non-Hamas elements. They may have won the election, but they did not win the majority of Palestinians' votes in that election, and they certainly weren't elected to absolute power (i.e., no majority in Parliament, and not having the presidency)
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
And, I think in long run that more than anything will have hurt Hamas in the minds of the Palestinian people.
Fattah seemed to be/still is making genuine strides toward legitimacy, much like the IRA has done.
It is a shame that more wasn't done to help Fattah in that direction and help the citizens.
wa:do
Fattah seemed to be/still is making genuine strides toward legitimacy, much like the IRA has done.
It is a shame that more wasn't done to help Fattah in that direction and help the citizens.
wa:do
kai
ragamuffin
Indeed and if Sienn Fien had won an election in NI with the stated aim of destroying England we would not have recognised or cooperated with them. I dont know if anyone called the election "null" i just think they couldnt do business with Hamas.
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Awesome!
You didn't address my answer. You asked why there is so many extremists who are willing to attack you. I told you to leave our countries if you don't want to be attacked. To make it clear for you, ask your cousin to leave Afghanistan and he will be saved.
First of all, i didn't show one side to be totally innocent and the other to be the demon, and if i did, please show me where did i do so.
Secondly, accusing me of being intolerant is a clear personal attack even though you don't recognize it to be one.
kai
ragamuffin
Indeed.
That's totally irrelevant to what painted wolf has said. Did you really read that post before posting?
Hypocrisy.
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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+3]Palestinian Election: [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+3] [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+3]Be Careful of What [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+3] [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+3]You Wish For [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] By Laszlo Dosa[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] Global Beat Syndicate[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] (KRT)[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]JUPITER, Fla. If George W. Bush is to be believed, he has been praying for democracy to bloom in the Middle East. His prayer has now been answered in spades. Democracy is bustin out all over the Muslim world. He just does not know what hit him.[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+3] [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+3]Be Careful of What [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+3] [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+3]You Wish For [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] By Laszlo Dosa[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] Global Beat Syndicate[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] (KRT)[/FONT]
To begin with the latest, the Palestinians held an election that, by all accounts, was clean and orderly. Hamas won fair and square, whether we like it or not. Obviously we do not like it because Hamas has been branded a terrorist organization, and justly so. But, as the old saying goes, today's terrorist may be tomorrow's freedom fighter, as this historical footnote demonstrates:
Sixty years ago, in July 1946, another organization in the same region, called Irgun, was fighting for a homeland for its people. Its most spectacular operation was the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem at the cost of 91 lives, including 28 Britons, 41 Arabs and 17 Jews. Irgun was widely condemned for its terrorist activities by Jews and non-Jews alike, including David Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel. Irgun was led by Menahem Begin. In 1977, this former terrorist was elected Israel's prime minister; two years later he signed the peace treaty with Egypt and subsequently won the Nobel Peace Prize.
As for the recent sweeping victory by Hamas, both President Bush and the Israeli government declared at the end of January that they refuse to deal with Hamas and would freeze all assistance to the Palestinian people. Leaders in both countries seem to forget that if they want peace they must negotiate with their adversary, as Israeli Prime Minister Rabin did with Yasser Arafat. Unfortunately, if the U.S. government and the European Union halt their assistance to the desperately broke Palestinians, there is a country in the region that will be more than happy to step into the breach.
That country is Iran, whose new president is eager to embrace the enemies of Israel.
Laszlo Dosa: Hamas Won, Fair and Square
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Hamas 'democratic victory' was characterized by executing their rivals and maiming others by shooting them in their knees, then declaring an open season on homosexuals and condemning Israel for its gay rights.
and of course to actively engage in terrorism such as firing rockets on civilian population. if an elected government acts this way, and this is all legitimate, then truly the west has failed miserably in its liberal experiment.
kai
ragamuffin
well just because a party or organisation wins an election it doesnt automatically give them the right to Trade,Aid,or open borders etc, or international recognition,
Britain the EU or the US could not possibly maintain a normal relationship with an organisation such as Hamas unless it was to fundamentally change.
I am a little surprised at how many people dont understand this.
Our prime minister said at the time:
"I think it is important for Hamas to understand that there comes a point and the point is now... where they have to decide between a path of democracy or a path of violence,"
Hamas failed to take up the challenge, if they did Gaza would be a different place today. I think it was an incredible opportunity for the Palestinians frittered away.
Britain the EU or the US could not possibly maintain a normal relationship with an organisation such as Hamas unless it was to fundamentally change.
I am a little surprised at how many people dont understand this.
Our prime minister said at the time:
"I think it is important for Hamas to understand that there comes a point and the point is now... where they have to decide between a path of democracy or a path of violence,"
Hamas failed to take up the challenge, if they did Gaza would be a different place today. I think it was an incredible opportunity for the Palestinians frittered away.
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I can understand that *democracy* in Israel didn't allow its people to know the truth. Maybe Israel was afraid that would shock its citizens, so they told them something similar to what you have stated above, i perfectly understand where you are coming from.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Im afraid you will never understand where people like me are coming from.I can understand that *democracy* in Israel didn't allow its people to know the truth. Maybe Israel was afraid that would shock its citizens, so they told them something similar to what you have stated above, i perfectly understand where you are coming from.
Notice I said that their 'democratic victory' not that they did not win by elections.
further input of Hamas agenda upon winning:
Hamas say gays are perverts will be punished if they win elections - from Pink News - all the latest gay news from the gay community - Pink News
Why?
You understand more than me that the more you support people, the more they will feel obliged to fall for your agendas. Come on, we all know that, especially you. That's why the US has Egypt under its wing.
The world's sin is that they follow blindly what Israel says because they are backed up by the US government.
If that was really what your PM has said, then i totally agree with him, but you see, although your PM said that, he doesn't have the power Israel and the US have in the region. The US didn't say what your PM has said. Both, the US and Israel decided not to deal with Hamas at once without giving them any chance, and you know well what does that mean.