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These dogs, we had to shoot them all

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
OK, if it is not laws of Talmud, then which law give Israeli army the right to hit 20 kids a day with its bombs?

i am sorry, i know that you do not know me. i can not prove you what i am. i am aware of this. but i am gonna say it anyway. i am not just concerned about Muslims. i am also concerned about Jewish people. only after this last attack of Israel, some incidents started to happen. in Sweden, for example, some Jewish were attacked. Jewish people do not feel safe and they have a point. where were these attackers before? all of a sudden people turned out to be anti semitic? how?

.

It might be down to all the Anti Zionists don't you think,when you think about it are'nt Zionists Jews after all.
There has always been Anti Semitism throughout history,they have been kicked and punched the world over so your right Jews wherever they are do not feel safe.
 

Elessar

Well-Known Member
OK, if it is not laws of Talmud, then which law give Israeli army the right to hit 20 kids a day with its bombs?

i am sorry, i know that you do not know me. i can not prove you what i am. i am aware of this. but i am gonna say it anyway. i am not just concerned about Muslims. i am also concerned about Jewish people. only after this last attack of Israel, some incidents started to happen. in Sweden, for example, some Jewish were attacked. Jewish people do not feel safe and they have a point. where were these attackers before? all of a sudden people turned out to be anti semitic? how?

.

Antisemitism is a major problem in every part of the world, and this is merely the newest excuse among many for hatred of Jews. Heck, this isn't even the worst I'm afraid of. I live in America. You know, land of religious freedom? We've had more than our fair share of antisemitism. My great-great grandfather, Messianic Jewish, was murdered by the Ku Klux Klan for his faith, his "fake Christianity" as it was termed. He is parents and his wife's parents had been previously forced to leave Armenia, the land of his ancestors, because of mass pogroms throughout the Russian Empire.

Another great-great grandfather was faced with "Renounce Crypto-Judaism or be burned for heresy" in the 1880s, Spain, when they decided to tear down his pants during the republican era there, and discovered his secret circumcision. His ancestors had been forced to hide their ancestry and faith from the 15th century to that point, when he was outed.

Another ancestor, this one a great-great-great grandmother, and her family, were forced to flee an antisemitic mob in Norway, after Jews were blamed for the attempted assassination of Karl XIV of Sweden and Norway.

These are just a few stories of antisemitic oppression, just from my ancestors. Mine are nowhere near the exception; if anything, antisemitism is the rule, not the exception, in most of the planet. The greatest, and most horrible, expression thereof was the National Socialist German Workers Party, who massacred six million Jews for their faith and their ancestry. I have a cousin, whose grandfather was liberated from Auschwitz by the Soviet Union. I know others. Forcibly tattooed with identification numbers so their files could be easily called up on the IBM computers in Berlin. Taken in trains to Mercedes-Benz built gas chambers and BMW-built ovens, where they could be murdered en masse, like cattle, and then their corpses burned - the greatest insult one could possibly commit against a dead Jew.

This last one went far beyond the imaginations of even some of the worst antisemites of the era, and antisemitism was silenced for generations, as to be alike to the Nazis was, and still is, stigmatized in Western thought. Russia still has a death penalty to be meted out for "Nazism". But antisemitism has been given a much more legitimate name, in the western world - antizionism. As long as it's not directed against Jews, but just Israel, it's okay. It's fine. It's not nazi-like. It's not evil. But, even groups, like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (a communist, atheist organization) which claimed to be anti-Israel, not anti-Jewish, still committed acts which were purely antisemitic, and not anti-Israel, in nature. For example, the hijacking of Air France 139. There were Israelis on board, but many non-Israeli Jews. And these latter were held, kept as hostages, despite their being non-Israelis - they were British, American, Canadian, French, not Israeli, but they were still held as hostages. This is not antizionism. This is anti-Judaism.

To this day, antisemitic attacks occur against Jews all across the world, in Sweden, in Great Britain, in Canada, in the United States, everywhere, on the grounds of "Israel is persecuting the Palestinians." And then, Jews in general are, as usual, being blamed for everything. I have actually heard of numerous people blame this current recession on "the Jews," due to a few Jews in various parts of the financial system, and a few bad Jews who committed crimes. But, if this recession gets worse, I would be honestly not surprised to see pogroms, on a certain scale, throughout the United States. It has happened before - in the Great Depression, there were constant pogroms against the Jews all over the union. And it could easily happen again. Sometimes, I am honestly afraid for my life because of my heritage, and I live in America, the land of the Free, the land of Religious Freedom, the land of Tolerance, the land of Liberty.

And that's why we are always wary of "antizionism". Because, the vast majority of the time, "Zionist" is merely a straw man term for a Jew.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
Antisemitism is a major problem in every part of the world, and this is merely the newest excuse among many for hatred of Jews. Heck, this isn't even the worst I'm afraid of. I live in America. You know, land of religious freedom? We've had more than our fair share of antisemitism. My great-great grandfather, Messianic Jewish, was murdered by the Ku Klux Klan for his faith, his "fake Christianity" as it was termed. He is parents and his wife's parents had been previously forced to leave Armenia, the land of his ancestors, because of mass pogroms throughout the Russian Empire.

Another great-great grandfather was faced with "Renounce Crypto-Judaism or be burned for heresy" in the 1880s, Spain, when they decided to tear down his pants during the republican era there, and discovered his secret circumcision. His ancestors had been forced to hide their ancestry and faith from the 15th century to that point, when he was outed.

Another ancestor, this one a great-great-great grandmother, and her family, were forced to flee an antisemitic mob in Norway, after Jews were blamed for the attempted assassination of Karl XIV of Sweden and Norway.

These are just a few stories of antisemitic oppression, just from my ancestors. Mine are nowhere near the exception; if anything, antisemitism is the rule, not the exception, in most of the planet. The greatest, and most horrible, expression thereof was the National Socialist German Workers Party, who massacred six million Jews for their faith and their ancestry. I have a cousin, whose grandfather was liberated from Auschwitz by the Soviet Union. I know others. Forcibly tattooed with identification numbers so their files could be easily called up on the IBM computers in Berlin. Taken in trains to Mercedes-Benz built gas chambers and BMW-built ovens, where they could be murdered en masse, like cattle, and then their corpses burned - the greatest insult one could possibly commit against a dead Jew.

This last one went far beyond the imaginations of even some of the worst antisemites of the era, and antisemitism was silenced for generations, as to be alike to the Nazis was, and still is, stigmatized in Western thought. Russia still has a death penalty to be meted out for "Nazism". But antisemitism has been given a much more legitimate name, in the western world - antizionism. As long as it's not directed against Jews, but just Israel, it's okay. It's fine. It's not nazi-like. It's not evil. But, even groups, like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (a communist, atheist organization) which claimed to be anti-Israel, not anti-Jewish, still committed acts which were purely antisemitic, and not anti-Israel, in nature. For example, the hijacking of Air France 139. There were Israelis on board, but many non-Israeli Jews. And these latter were held, kept as hostages, despite their being non-Israelis - they were British, American, Canadian, French, not Israeli, but they were still held as hostages. This is not antizionism. This is anti-Judaism.

To this day, antisemitic attacks occur against Jews all across the world, in Sweden, in Great Britain, in Canada, in the United States, everywhere, on the grounds of "Israel is persecuting the Palestinians." And then, Jews in general are, as usual, being blamed for everything. I have actually heard of numerous people blame this current recession on "the Jews," due to a few Jews in various parts of the financial system, and a few bad Jews who committed crimes. But, if this recession gets worse, I would be honestly not surprised to see pogroms, on a certain scale, throughout the United States. It has happened before - in the Great Depression, there were constant pogroms against the Jews all over the union. And it could easily happen again. Sometimes, I am honestly afraid for my life because of my heritage, and I live in America, the land of the Free, the land of Religious Freedom, the land of Tolerance, the land of Liberty.

And that's why we are always wary of "antizionism". Because, the vast majority of the time, "Zionist" is merely a straw man term for a Jew.

i do not want anyone to live in fear. i do not want any creature feel fear.

i have some childhood memories, Elessar. i was fearless. years ago when it was time for sacrifice for Allah, people used to kill animals in their gardens. now they do it in certain places but when i was kid, butchers used to come and say prayers then kill animals here and there. i watched them so many times. i saw how an animal get into somekind of state where it almost paralizes and behaive etremely calm. none of them moved or tried to escape. they really looked like they submitted to be sacrificed. yet one time there were two sheeps. they tied up one of them and made a pray over the other. prayed one, as usual, was in trance. the other one who's tied up watched his friend being killed. i can never forget how it paniced. i was shattered in pieces internally. maybe this is a bit unrelated to the subject but i want to share something special for me. fear i saw in that poor animal is as real as yesterday, it is vivid in my mind and i believe those people who caused its fear did commit a sin, a terrible one, imo.

so back to the subject :) i think i can explain what i see. i am not willing to discuss though. i would share what i think -only- if you want to hear it.

just don't close the door, please. God knows i need Jewish people who's willing to keep doors open.

thank you :)

.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thats completely irrelevant. There is another topic to discuss that. Im simply saying to you that i dislike how much condemnation Israel is recieving because of statements like yours.
I dont have a problem with muslims. I have a problem with muslims who try to kill innocent people and its frustrating because all we hear about is muslim extremists. Why? Why do we not hear about other religions?

Why don't you leave our countries alone first? why?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You are being intolerant. It was the ISRAELIS that were diplomatically removed from THEIR homes in the Gaza Strip. And the Palestinians are clearly NOT an armless people. How in the world could you possibly believe that without being on drugs or brainwashed?

You don't have to attack me to prove your point. :)

This is a clear sign of the weakness of your argument and what you are defending. You know it, i know it, and all the words you use scream out of hypocrisy.
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Why don't you leave our countries alone first? why?

He said,

I dont have a problem with muslims. I have a problem with muslims who try to kill innocent people and its frustrating because all we hear about is muslim extremists.
Why? Why do we not hear about other religions?

For Steve's sake.

"Our countries":sarcastic
 

Eutopos

Peace
Pals, live without water, Electricity, or any other means of simple things that you all people live with, and you are blaming them for defending themselves against another people who forced an embargo on them, letting them to starve to death, and then killing 1200 mostly civilians, kids and women!!!!!
IDF own the most developed weapons in world right now, do you convince me that the 1200 inc. kids and women are casualities???? i mean if i believed that, then i'm totally a dumb person and have no brains

This is totally unfair, & i'm not without suicide bombings btw...

And about those Israelis forced out of their homes, it is not theirs btw, those were taken in 1967 by Israeli force, and Pals were left in the without a shelter, we are all sitting on a computer and with water and electricity, and talking about Pals who have NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL, why is that??? because of HAMAS!!!!
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Pals, live without water, Electricity, or any other means of simple things that you all people live with, and you are blaming them for defending themselves against another people who forced an embargo on them, letting them to starve to death, and then killing 1200 mostly civilians, kids and women!!!!!
IDF own the most developed weapons in world right now, do you convince me that the 1200 inc. kids and women are casualities???? i mean if i believed that, then i'm totally a dumb person and have no brains

This is totally unfair, & i'm not without suicide bombings btw...

And about those Israelis forced out of their homes, it is not theirs btw, those were taken in 1967 by Israeli force, and Pals were left in the without a shelter, we are all sitting on a computer and with water and electricity, and talking about Pals who have NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL, why is that??? because of HAMAS!!!!

I agree with you,the Palestinian people are suffering and thats plainly obvious,yes we sit here on our PCs not having to go through the same misery and no its not all because of Hamas,there are other influences in and outside of Palestine.
All the finger pointing in the world is not going to solve anything,the only way forward is peace,between Israel and Palestine there has never been peace,there is only mistrust and hatred.
IMO if Palestine go down the path of peace there would be no reason for and embargo,there would be no reason for a buffer zone,there would be not excuse for settlers,there would be no reason for Israel to invade Gaza.
It has been 60 years of violence and the result of that is what we have witnessed of late,now is the time for peace and rebuilding so those people can have everything we have and the only way to achieve that is through peace
 

Eutopos

Peace
I agree with you,the Palestinian people are suffering and thats plainly obvious,yes we sit here on our PCs not having to go through the same misery and no its not all because of Hamas,there are other influences in and outside of Palestine.
All the finger pointing in the world is not going to solve anything,the only way forward is peace,between Israel and Palestine there has never been peace,there is only mistrust and hatred.
IMO if Palestine go down the path of peace there would be no reason for and embargo,there would be no reason for a buffer zone,there would be not excuse for settlers,there would be no reason for Israel to invade Gaza.
It has been 60 years of violence and the result of that is what we have witnessed of late,now is the time for peace and rebuilding so those people can have everything we have and the only way to achieve that is through peace

Well, I totally agree, i don't think pointing at one would solve anything, and that is my point, you either Pro-Israel or Anti-Israel, why can't we see PRO-PEACE, after all, i don't imagine a normal ppl, who would love to live in war...
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Well, I totally agree, i don't think pointing at one would solve anything, and that is my point, you either Pro-Israel or Anti-Israel, why can't we see PRO-PEACE, after all, i don't imagine a normal ppl, who would love to live in war...

Exactly,war=death and misery,look at Iraq and how many civilian casualties there are there and the fighting supposedly ended ages ago.
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Well, I totally agree, i don't think pointing at one would solve anything, and that is my point, you either Pro-Israel or Anti-Israel, why can't we see PRO-PEACE, after all, i don't imagine a normal ppl, who would love to live in war...

I think more people than we realize are just that. So much of the debate gets focused on historical aspects that, for all practical purposes, do not solve the issue or are possibly relevant anymore.

So such arguments on whether or not, say, Palestinian was an actual recognized cultural group prior to 1967 or Palestine was just a governmental boundary under the Ottomans or an even older term going back to the Romans...............the answer is not going to solve this issue. However, what viewpoint you take on the historical debate can lead to labeling others as pro- this or anti- that when in fact those people do not feel that way.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Ireland is a good example of what can be achieved by peaceful means,this conflict had been festering for 500 years plus,two factions,Republicans (Catholic) Loyalist (Protestant),many many killings,bombings,assasinations and so much hatred,i have seen a man dragged from his car and beaten to death by 50 plus people and you think there is no chance this will ever end.
Tony Blair who in every other aspect of his post as Prime Minister i disliked managed the impossible and got them talking and Northern Ireland is all the better for it,all the hatred and mistrust will not dissapear overnight and it will take few generations but with dialogue and peace anything is possible.
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Ireland is a good example of what can be achieved by peaceful means,this conflict had been festering for 500 years plus,two factions,Republicans (Catholic) Loyalist (Protestant),many many killings,bombings,assasinations and so much hatred,i have seen a man dragged from his car and beaten to death by 50 plus people and you think there is no chance this will ever end.
Tony Blair who in every other aspect of his post as Prime Minister i disliked managed the impossible and got them talking and Northern Ireland is all the better for it,all the hatred and mistrust will not dissapear overnight and it will take few generations but with dialogue and peace anything is possible.

Have their been any other bombings since Omagh? When was that, 1998? Or '96?

I was under the impression that since then there has not been anything as serious but I lost track when my store stopped carrying the Irish Times and I have not looked for any news over the last few years.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Have their been any other bombings since Omagh? When was that, 1998? Or '96?

I was under the impression that since then there has not been anything as serious but I lost track when my store stopped carrying the Irish Times and I have not looked for any news over the last few years.

All is quiet in that respect which is amazing considering what it was like,there is still bickering but its done in the assembly.
 
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