These people are lunatics

[sandandfoam]

Honestly, dear, have you ever seen in UK Muslims and Jews killing each other?
I haven't. Not even in my country.
That's because we live in secular normal countries, where all religions are equal before the law.
They want to go on with that religious fanaticism, evidently because they like playing war. Let them keep playing war, like 7 year-old-kids

They were talking about a 7 year old child 'playing war' here on the radio this morning. http://www.newstalk.ie/The-casualties-of-Gaza:-Mahas-story
If this happened in any 'secular normal' country there would be a clamor for retaliation. Can you imagine what the response would be if this happened to a US citizen?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Dunno man.

About half a century ago, Palestine was brutally attacked all the sudden, had its properties taken by force, homes destroyed, its people slaughtered for simply being seen, and that kept going on for decades. Right now people in Gaza can't enjoy international known meals nor can provide happy meals for their children, while most of us here can go and get some anytime we desire. Most of us in worst cases can have a part time job, make some money, and go buy a Samsung Galaxy S5 with a wide smile on our faces. They risk their lives to even think of doing so.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support Hamas for what they are doing. But I still can't bash them for what they do. What I said above created them. Made them who they are now. Made them mental.

On the other hand, I know that Israelis are innocent from what their predecessors done to Palestine. They, and all Jews around the world, are innocent and don't deserve to be terrorized by Hamas's actions. Those Israelis done nothing wrong. They are only looking for a place they can call home and reside in.

 

[LuisDantas]

First, I am no supporter of violence. I think Hamas is an awful organisation.
But I think the question must be asked why they exist?
It would seem to me that violence begets violence and that the current war in Gaza is only going to create even more extreme and radical militants.

I wish I did not have to frubal posts such as this that say things that should be obvious. In any case, thanks for saying this much, Stephen.

 

[LuisDantas]

Honestly, dear, have you ever seen in UK Muslims and Jews killing each other?
I haven't. Not even in my country.
That's because we live in secular normal countries, where all religions are equal before the law.
They want to go on with that religious fanaticism, evidently because they like playing war. Let them keep playing war, like 7 year-old-kids

7 year olders that never knew any other kind of life beyond violent pride and paranoia, sure.

 

[LuisDantas]

Don't get me wrong, I don't support Hamas for what they are doing. But I still can't bash them for what they do. What I said above created them. Made them who they are now. Made them mental.

Indeed, we must ask ourselves how would we individually deal with the effective occupation/siege/continued humiliation and threat situations that the Gazans face.

Somehow I doubt that respect for the rights of sovereignity of Israel would be a big priority to me.

But then again, I am terribly prejudiced against being shot and threatened by superior firepower. Health reasons, you know.

On the other hand, I know that Israelis are innocent from what their predecessors done to Palestine. They, and all Jews around the world, are innocent and don't deserve to be terrorized by Hamas's actions. Those Israelis done nothing wrong. They are only looking for a place they can call home and reside in.

That does not really mean the IDF can do as it pleases.

 

[Smart_Guy]

That does not really mean the IDF can do as it pleases.

True.

I meant the Israeli civilians and some of the military. I'm generally against the Israeli military and their leaders.

 

[Mycroft]

But if I was Israeli I think I'd be terrified.

Right. Israel should be real scared of loose band of terrorists whose weapons have roughly the same effect as flinging a ping-pong ball as a Navy Destroyer. While, conversely, Israel's handling of Hamas is roughly equal to hunting a rabbit with an atom bomb. 'Phew. The entire population of Gaza is dead, but we finally got that pesky wabbit!'

 

[LuisDantas]

Right. Israel should be real scared of loose band of terrorists whose weapons have roughly the same effect as flinging a ping-pong ball as a Navy Destroyer. While, conversely, Israel's handling of Hamas is roughly equal to hunting a rabbit with an atom bomb. 'Phew. The entire population of Gaza is dead, but we finally got that pesky wabbit!'

I guess I once felt much the same way.

I want to point out, though, that Israel and its citizens have every right to feel outraged and scared of weapons that, ineffective as they may be, can and do in fact kill real people. Even if every single one of the victims were military, they still have families and loved ones.

It serves us all ill to minimize the reality and the significance of those victims. I just don't think they serve as justification for making a point of creating even more victims.

Edited to add: and, of course, killing military people just to prove a point or to show defiance is not fair either. Even all-out war killings are just barely justifiable, all things told.

 

[BSM1]

I don't know about the beheadings and all that stuff but I was saying that I can understand why Gazans elected a militant group to lead them. That's all.

How's that working out for them?

 

[Alceste]

I don't think Hamas is insane. I think they're stupid, violent, proud and angry. I also think Netanyahu and the other hawks in his government and the IDF are stupid, violent, proud and angry. The solution to this and every conflict is to stop electing stupid, violent, proud and angry men to lead us. Nothing is to be gained by encouraging them to take their stupidity, violence, pride and anger out on each other's electoral base.

 

[Smart_Guy]

The solution to this and every conflict is to stop electing stupid, violent, proud and angry men to lead us. Nothing is to be gained by encouraging them to take their stupidity, violence, pride and anger out on each other's electoral base.

Elect me, I'm Smart

 

[Alceste]

Elect me, I'm Smart

I would if I could, smarty pants. You seem kind.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I would if I could, smarty pants. You seem kind.

Thanks ma'am. You're too kind

 

[Godobeyer]

Smart Guy
you looks good in the mirror

 

[Smart_Guy]

The more reason to elect me

 

[Yerda]

Right. Israel should be real scared of loose band of terrorists whose weapons have roughly the same effect as flinging a ping-pong ball as a Navy Destroyer. While, conversely, Israel's handling of Hamas is roughly equal to hunting a rabbit with an atom bomb. 'Phew. The entire population of Gaza is dead, but we finally got that pesky wabbit!'

I agree that this is a grotesquely uneven conflict.

 

[icehorse]

Yes, it does. I have opined in other threads that, odd and even impracticable as it may be, the only sound approach is in fact to heal the Gazans, or even Hamas proper.

It would be by no means easy, much less painless, but I believe it is both workable and necessary. And ultimately it would be greatly rewarding as well.

I like Peter Boghossian's perspective: "People deserve respect, ideas do not."

Applied here I'd say we can heal Gazans, and ditch "Hamas" which is just a set of ideas.

 

[LuisDantas]

I like Peter Boghossian's perspective: "People deserve respect, ideas do not."

Applied here I'd say we can heal Gazans, and ditch "Hamas" which is just a set of ideas.

It is also, far as I can tell, the duly elected leadership of the PA in Gaza, so I think it is a bit more complicated than that.

It is difficult to legitimaly handle a desire of ditching Hamas while also supporting the sovereign right of Israel to fire in supposed self-defense.

 

[Sunstone]

I like Peter Boghossian's perspective: "People deserve respect, ideas do not."

I've long been of the opinion that much of the evil in this world has come from respecting ideas more than people. For instance, Hamas has its ideas and to hell with anyone who doesn't share them.

 

[Moishe3rd]

I'm not suggesting that the atrocities in Gaza are defensible. But I've been wondering for a while how you fight people who are clearly mental. If I was Palestinian I'd be mental too perhaps. But if I was Israeli I think I'd be terrified. They scare me and I'm in Scotland.

How do you deal with Hamas?

This isn't rhetoric. I am clueless as to how you fight Hamas and groups like them because I cannot accept that they have the right to exist and I do not accept that the Israeli state is right to behave as it has (even if it was working).

Kill them.
The same way you fight any mental disease that turns people into deranged killers whose only intention is to murder...
Think Zombies.
Then, think about how to stop Zombies.
Then, question whether or not you would risk the lives of The Civilian Friends of Zombies in order to kill the Zombies.

Which brings one back to the original statement - kill them.