These people are lunatics

[Yerda]

Kill them.
The same way you fight any mental disease that turns people into deranged killers whose only intention is to murder...
Think Zombies.
Then, think about how to stop Zombies.
Then, question whether or not you would risk the lives of The Civilian Friends of Zombies in order to kill the Zombies.

Which brings one back to the original statement - kill them.

I have read that Hamas suffered relatively few casualties. The leadership almost none. If Israel had killed them, great. What Israel did instead was massacre civilians.

 

[Moishe3rd]

I have read that Hamas suffered relatively few casualties. The leadership almost none. If Israel had killed them, great. What Israel did instead was massacre civilians.

I would humbly suggest that casualty figures given out by the Palestinian, Hamas controlled, PR people in Gaza... are lies.
As is acknowledged by Hamas; the PA; and almost all sources that are opposed to Israel, the only way Hamas can negotiate a win in this Gazan War is to invite opprobrium upon Israel for killing civilians.
That's it.
That is Hamas' total strategy for "winning."
Now, if that is true (and, Hamas claims that it is), then it would seem that a person might suppose that Hamas dramatically increases the "civilian casualty" and the overall casualty figures in order to win this war which, by most accounts, as YOU believe, is an extremely successful strategy.

Caution needed with Gaza casualty figures
By Anthony Reuben
Head of statistics, BBC News

The IDF say they have killed at least 253 Hamas operatives, 147 Islamic Jihad operatives, 65 "operatives of various organisations" and 603 "operatives whose affiliation is unknown", although they also stress that this is not a final number.

Spokesman Capt Eytan Buchman told BBC News that "the UN numbers being reported are, by and by large, based on the Gaza health ministry, a Hamas-run organisation".

He said that part of the reason for the discrepancy between the figures was "when militants are brought to hospitals, they are brought in civilian clothing, obscuring terrorist affiliations".

"Hamas also has given local residents directives to obscure militant identities," he said.

"It's important to bear in mind that in Operation Cast Lead [the last Israeli ground offensive in December 2008-January 2009], Hamas and Gaza-based organisations claimed that only 50 combatants were killed, admitting years later the number was between 600-700, a figure nearly identical to the figure claimed by the IDF."

In addition, Israel has indeed killed several terrorist leaders, mostly from Islamic Jihad, which is the tail that wags the dog of Hamas. It is Islamic Jihad that has been firing rockets at Israel every day for the last 8 or 9 years.
Most of the Hamas leaders are either abroad or ensconced in their luxury bunker beneath Shifa Hospital.

 

[Alceste]

Kill them.
The same way you fight any mental disease that turns people into deranged killers whose only intention is to murder...
Think Zombies.
Then, think about how to stop Zombies.
Then, question whether or not you would risk the lives of The Civilian Friends of Zombies in order to kill the Zombies.

Which brings one back to the original statement - kill them.

If you believe this argument is valid for Israel, it must also be valid for Palestine. They surely view the IDF as monsters. So if your side's violence is acceptable, then so is theirs.

 

[Moishe3rd]

If you believe this argument is valid for Israel, it must also be valid for Palestine. They surely view the IDF as monsters. So if your side's violence is acceptable, then so is theirs.

Really?
So you think that Israelis tell their children to stand out in the open in the hopes that a Hamas missile will blow them up?
You think that the Jews are strapping on suicide belts to blow up random people, whoever and wherever they happen to be?
You think that Israel has been firing random missiles into Gaza for the last 9 years or so, thinking that maybe they might get lucky and hit something?

No. Zombies do that. They can't control their deadly urge for blood.

And, by the way - no. The majority of Arabs, just like everybody else, just want to go along and get along. They view the IDF less as monsters than they view their blood thirsty zombie overlords as monsters.
The only difference is that they are allowed to tell the IDF they don't like Israel.
Telling that to the Zombie Hamas means death.

 

[LuisDantas]

Really?

Really.

And, by the way - no. The majority of Arabs, just like everybody else, just want to go along and get along. They view the IDF less as monsters than they view their blood thirsty zombie overlords as monsters.

I would very much like some evidence pointing towards that.

The only difference is that they are allowed to tell the IDF they don't like Israel.
Telling that to the Zombie Hamas means death.

I think some deeper, more detailed analysis of the sociopolitical situation is needed.

 

[Alceste]

Really.



I would very much like some evidence pointing towards that.




I think some deeper, more detailed analysis of the sociopolitical situation is needed.

What, you mean you can't base sound geopolitical opinions on pure, visceral xenophobia? Say it ain't so!

 

[metis]

The first casualty in war is truth.

 

[Moishe3rd]

Really.



I would very much like some evidence pointing towards that.




I think some deeper, more detailed analysis of the sociopolitical situation is needed.

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas, Wants Ceasefire

"detailed analysis of the sociopolitical situation?"
OMG... You went to college, didn't you?
Really?
The question being whether or not Hamas tolerates dissent? Is that what you want to study?
I would humbly suggest you read the news reports of those reporters who ONLY FILED AFTER THEY LEFT GAZA and what their observations might be.
Educate yourself.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

The first casualty in war is truth.

I thought it was sanity.

 

[Akivah]

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas, Wants Ceasefire

"detailed analysis of the sociopolitical situation?"
OMG... You went to college, didn't you?
Really?
The question being whether or not Hamas tolerates dissent? Is that what you want to study?
I would humbly suggest you read the news reports of those reporters who ONLY FILED AFTER THEY LEFT GAZA and what their observations might be.
Educate yourself.

That was an interesting poll above.

The results of the June poll go even further than these indicators, showing that Gazans would be willing to look to Israel for their livelihood. Respondents overwhelmingly (82 percent) said they "would like to see Israel allow more Palestinians to work in Israel." Still more poignantly, a majority (56 percent) said they "would be personally willing to work in Israel if there was a good, high-paying job." Thus, Gazans actually favored some form of normalization with Israel in order to find work.

I was just reading an article today that stated that many Israelis like to offer employment to arabs, so that they would see the benefits to being neighbors with Israel instead of opponents. It looks like that policy has borne some fruit with the populace.

 

[LuisDantas]

Gaza Public Rejects Hamas, Wants Ceasefire

"detailed analysis of the sociopolitical situation?"
OMG... You went to college, didn't you?
Really?
The question being whether or not Hamas tolerates dissent? Is that what you want to study?

Do you expect to shame me because I want to know the facts before having an opinion about a serious matter?

All right then.

I would humbly suggest you read the news reports of those reporters who ONLY FILED AFTER THEY LEFT GAZA and what their observations might be.
Educate yourself.

Sure.

 

[Moishe3rd]

Do you expect to shame me because I want to know the facts before having an opinion about a serious matter?

All right then.



Sure.

I apologize.
The desire for analysis appears to contradict common sense.

 

[Alceste]

I apologize.
The desire for analysis appears to contradict common sense.

"Common sense" in debates over the occupied Palestinian territories is always in very short supply. I'm afraid those of us who remain neutral have nothing to fall back on but evidence and analysis.

 

[Moishe3rd]

"Common sense" in debates over the occupied Palestinian territories is always in very short supply. I'm afraid those of us who remain neutral have nothing to fall back on but evidence and analysis.

Common sense regarding Hamas may be in short supply in your world but, for much of the human race, including the Arab and Muslim worlds, there is little difference between Hamas and ISIS and the Taliban and Hezbollah and the various religious and secular looney toons who are murdering thousands all over the Arab and Muslim world.
To lump together the "Palestinian cause of oppression" with vicious and blatant murderous attacks on Everyone - Israeli; Palestinian; Jew; Arab; Muslim; non Jew; Everyone - by Hamas beggars Common Sense.
You may find Jews or Israelis oppressive but, to equate the murder and chaos of Hamas with Israel and try to "analyze" the matter to see if they are one and the same has no basis in any kind of reality.

 

[icehorse]

"Common sense" in debates over the occupied Palestinian territories is always in very short supply. I'm afraid those of us who remain neutral have nothing to fall back on but evidence and analysis.

To type the phrase "occupied Palestinian territories" is to NOT be neutral.

 

[Wirey]

To type the phrase "occupied Palestinian territories" is to NOT be neutral.

True dat.

 

[LuisDantas]

To type the phrase "occupied Palestinian territories" is to NOT be neutral.

Why so?

 

[Edwin]

The problem is religion

 

[icehorse]

Why so?

The phrase "occupied Palestinian territories", implies some agreement that "Palestinian territories" exist. Do Kurdish territories exist? Bedouin? Hashemite? (Oh wait, they got Jordan, ok, they're all set). The Qashqai? The Basseri?

And on and on...

This has nothing to do with a "Palestinian Homeland". This has to do with Arab tribal culture that simply cannot accept that Jews are occupying lands Arabs once conquered.

If you disagree, tell me why all these other tribes are ignored? If you are wringing your hands for the Palestinians, why aren't you wringing your hands for these other tribes?

 

[LuisDantas]

The phrase "occupied Palestinian territories", implies some agreement that "Palestinian territories" exist.

They do. It is the land where Palestinians live, including the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

Do Kurdish territories exist?

Definitely. I hear they may be about to have their status as a nation recognized, too.

Bedouin? Hashemite? (Oh wait, they got Jordan, ok, they're all set). The Qashqai? The Basseri?

Not sure.

And on and on...

Not sure what the point was supposed to be.

This has nothing to do with a "Palestinian Homeland". This has to do with Arab tribal culture that simply cannot accept that Jews are occupying lands Arabs once conquered.

When did territory become synonimous with Homeland?

And why would it even matter anyway?

If you disagree, tell me why all these other tribes are ignored?

Because they are not effectively at war with Israel?

I see you have a thesis. Would you like to share it?

If you are wringing your hands for the Palestinians, why aren't you wringing your hands for these other tribes?

Was I supposed to have some idea of what you mean here?