This is where liberty dies

[Epic Beard Man]

I wish there was a triple winner rating I could give you on this.

I don't see this as a winner. Who are people who have nothing to do with NFL politics going to dictate where they should protest?

 

[Mindmaster]

Inspired by: http://www.profootballweekly.com/20...d-penalty-for-kneeling-before-anthem/a3ss9ts/

Players found on the field kneeling during the national anthem their team may be subjected to a 15-yard penalty. What is sad is this will only create a polarizing environment for professional athletes who feel the need to protest and those who don't. Sad that in Trump's America we can move goal posts when it comes to free speech. I find that free speech is appropriate depending on who you are politically, and racially. For example, I do not see free speech proponents defend NFL players but I do see them come out in defense of the Charlottesville protests. Regardless of the venue of protests, if we're to defend liberty it must not be done by convenience, but by equity.

Good, maybe they will finally get around playing the game - the things the fans pay them for in the first place. Imagine if every fast food person was allowed to do this anytime at their whim during lunch hour. Yeah, talk about screwed. Anyway, I wish they'd just fire a few of them it's not what we want or want to pay for.

BTW, no one has free speech during work - I certainly don't. It's called being a professional, taking care of the customers and their needs, and delivering what is expected. I'm tired of this crap and I bet a bunch of other people are as well.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

When they show up for work collecting their millions.

The above is what most people have a problem with. Most people see NFL athletes as pampered and spoiled and rich. But being rich does not negate the fact that athelete4s are people too and they have opinions. A lot of these athletes came from the streets and a lot understand what its like to encounter law enforcement. I don't see the correlation and the lack of disconnect between an athlete and social issues.

 

[fantome profane]

I suppose they could compromise and treat it
like a religious thing. For instance, the Jehovah's witnesses do not salute or say the pledge of allegiance. (Correct me if I'm wrong). So if they have a problem with the national anthem why not let them sit it out in the locker room?

Oh yeah, bring religion into it. That always calms things down.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Yep, this is where liberty dies. Not when the co-founder of Mozilla was forced out, nor when someone was fired for a dongle joke. Nope, it is a fifteen yard penalty.


It doesn't surprise me that you don't see the nuance that separates the two behaviors.

The fact of the matter is you're punishing players for a belief....The owners are not backing the players and because the customer base (which the most loudest proponents against the protest are largely white) owners are giving in. They're ultimately saying, "having a voice and expressing it even if we don't like it we must curb this attitude for you do what we say because your only task is to catch the ball and entertain the people."

 

[David1967]

Good, maybe they will finally get around playing the game - the things the fans pay them for in the first place. Imagine if every fast food person was allowed to do this anytime at their whim during lunch hour. Yeah, talk about screwed. Anyway, I wish they'd just fire a few of them it's not what we want or want to pay for.

BTW, no one has free speech during work - I certainly don't. It's called being a professional, taking care of the customers and their needs, and delivering what is expected. I'm tired of this crap and I bet a bunch of other people are as well.

Another triple winner.

 

[David1967]

The above is what most people have a problem with. Most people see NFL athletes as pampered and spoiled and rich. But being rich does not negate the fact that athelete4s are people too and they have opinions. A lot of these athletes came from the streets and a lot understand what its like to encounter law enforcement. I don't see the correlation and the lack of disconnect between an athlete and social issues.

Its not the if it's the where.

 

[David1967]

Oh yeah, bing religion into it. That always calms things down.

Not my intention. Just pointing out that if they have a problem with the anthem then let them stay in the locker room till its over.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

From what I understand is that free speech is only allowed on public property, and even then it's limited to some degree. If I recall correctly, in Charlottesville they had to apply for a permit in order to hold a demonstration in a public park. (In hindsight, it probably would have been better had that permit not been granted.) For private property, it's strictly up to the property owner as to what's allowed.

So, if there's no actual place where free speech can be truly exercised, then I guess it's kind of pointless to even have it. But at least we can say we have "free speech," for whatever that's worth.

The point is damn the permits that is besides the issue. The issue is the double standard of free speech proponents. What so-called free speech advocates show me is it is okay to allow some Neo-Nazi jacka****** to apply for permits to spew vile racist vitriol since they're acting within the law, but when the players do it the rhetoric is "they're here to entertain us how dare they have opinions about social injustice!"

 

[Epic Beard Man]

They certainly aren't paid to stand for the national anthem.

Right and people forget that standing for the anthem is not obligatory in the NFL. Funny when people go to ball games I certainly did not see any signs of patriotism in the beer line.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

While football players are athletes, their primary function is to entertain.
They're like pro wrestlers in this regard. Wrestlers differ only in that
their performances are scripted, while footballers are proscribed, ie,
prohibited from behaving in a fashion which harms the business.

It's not a loss of liberty, but rather a financially justifiable condition
of employment. Wanna take their massive paycheck, & perform in
their venue, then one must dance to their tune while on the job.
On their own time they have much more freedom, eg, political
demonstration.

It's only financially justifiable to them because there is a section of so-called patriots who are fat and want to get entertained seeing a bunch of sweaty black dudes throw the ball around. Damn them having any intellect or opinions that matter!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Not my intention. Just pointing out that if they have a problem with the anthem then let them stay in the locker room till its over.

Society will still say they're unpatriotic while they still fall silent to the tragedy of Charlottesville when someone was killed. David you're a smart person do you not see the disconnect here? Do you not see how socially people think a bunch of Nazi f***s is okay to spew racist vitriol because they're acting within the law, but not okay for athletes to have a unified opinion about police injustice who, by protesting are also acting within the law?

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Good, maybe they will finally get around playing the game - the things the fans pay them for in the first place. Imagine if every fast food person was allowed to do this anytime at their whim during lunch hour. Yeah, talk about screwed. Anyway, I wish they'd just fire a few of them it's not what we want or want to pay for.

BTW, no one has free speech during work - I certainly don't. It's called being a professional, taking care of the customers and their needs, and delivering what is expected. I'm tired of this crap and I bet a bunch of other people are as well.

How does a player kneeling in protest prevent you from watching the game?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's only financially justifiable to them because there is a section of so-called patriots who are fat and want to get entertained seeing a bunch of sweaty black dudes throw the ball around. Damn them having any intellect or opinions that matter!

I am with you on this but getting mad in such a way will not convince anyone.

Granted that they are employees for pay, but they are also put on show during the National Anthem. It is a bit hypocritical to demand false "rah rah" patriotism from those athletes. They feel that they have a valid complaint.

One thing I am a bit amazed at is that no one has brought up the fact that Colin Kaepernick is still paying for his actions. I know that the Seahawks could have used him as a backup quarterback but they won't take one of the premier quarterbacks of the NFL even at bargain basement prices. When this is all done with he may have a major lawsuit against the NFL.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

That's fine. So, why can't an Alabama football team don the Confederate flag saluting it? Isn't that free speech?

You're either part of Old Glory or you're not. The Flag didn't do anything, so why punish IT?

While the confederate flag is part of our american history its the ugly part that represents time in america where we viewed people of a different color as nothing more than tools of our labor and to honor that flag is too honor that ideology.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I am with you on this but getting mad in such a way will not convince anyone.

Where in this post or thread am I demonstrating anger?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Where in this post or thread am I demonstrating anger?

In the little rant of yours that I quoted.

 

[Mister Emu]

The fact of the matter is you're punishing players for a belief

First, I don't watch nor patronize any NFL teams to influence management decisions even the slightest. I'm not punishing anyone for anything.

But, if I were an NFL consumer, the only belief I'd be punishing them for is that it is acceptable to protest during the national anthem on my time and my dime.

your only task is to catch the ball and entertain the people."

Football and entertaining the audience is their sole task at their job. If the people aren't entertained, or worse are offended, you failed at your job. That is the obligation they took on when they signed the dotted line.

I fully support every football player's right and duty to protest. I just wouldn't want to pay them to do it, and I understand the perspective of being especially against such a protest during what should be a moment promoting national unity. This is where your comparison to Charlottesville fails miserably. I wouldn't pay them to protest either, and, if I had paid them to do something else and they brought out the tiki torches I'd be upset and let whoever needed to know that if such happened again I'd no longer patronize.

 

[Phantasman]

What a nonsensical, stupid-*** straw man. How does one "punish" a piece of cloth?

Maybe the kneelers need to join others who hate America. They burn the US flag in Iran. Maybe they could align with them.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

In the little rant of yours that I quoted.

I didn't realize you can sense anger. I am neither angry nor happy but rather conversing. My post was not even a rant but the very fact you assume anger or ranting is very....interesting....