This is where liberty dies

[Subduction Zone]

I didn't realize you can sense anger. I am neither angry nor happy but rather conversing. My post was not even a rant but the very fact you assume anger or ranting is very....interesting....

Please, no assumption. You do get angry here quite often. I was merely trying to help.

Why do you think that others cannot sense your anger? That is a rather strange attitude to have.

And yes, it was a rant, a short one, but still a rant.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

But, if I were an NFL consumer, the only belief I'd be punishing them for is that it is acceptable to protest during the national anthem on my time and my dime.

Thank God you're not! I think its ignorant to punish an athlete with ideals. Not only do these realistic ideals defeat the narrative that NFL players are meatheads, but it also demonstrates the intellect of the player and the importance of American ideals on a grand stage.

on my time and my dime.

You're not the only damn person consuming football. To you, this may be an inconvenience but to other intellectuals they may find this quite interesting.

Football and entertaining the audience is their sole task at their job. If the people aren't entertained, or worse are offended, you failed at your job. That is the obligation they took on when they signed the dotted line.

If you do not patronize the NFL how in the hell do you know what their job is in the first place? I'm a former college athlete and you couldn't even be more wrong. The task of any professional team is to win, and the entertainment that you get from it is due to the hard work and struggle of both opposing teams efforts to win.

If the people aren't entertained, or worse are offended, you failed at your job. That is the obligation they took on when they signed the dotted line.

No. If they do not have a successful season or post season and continuing losing seasons then you can say they have failed, not because you're not entertained. This is not how sports fans commonly define enjoyment.

I fully support every football player's right and duty to protest.

Judging by what you've said thus far no you don't. You judge them by how much they entertain you.

I just wouldn't want to pay them to do it, and I understand the perspective of being especially against such a protest during what should be a moment promoting national unity. This is where your comparison to Charlottesville fails miserably. I wouldn't pay them to protest either, and, if I had paid them to do something else and they brought out the tiki torches I'd be upset and let whoever needed to know that if such happened again I'd no longer patronize.

My comparison is not about the intricate details, it is about the common opinions of disagreements about the platforms people are using to send out their message. If Neo-Nazis face opposition, people talk about free speech and their right because how they act within the law, but if athletes who are of color protest acting within the law then we call them spoil rich babies who ought to do such and such on their own time damn their cause!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The very fact that this debate is about whether or not this type of protest should be "permitted" and not about "what is encouraging these people to protest and what can be done about it" indicates that there is something very, very wrong at the heart of American political discourse.

 

[fantome profane]

The very fact that this debate is about whether or not this type of protest should be "permitted" and not about "what is encouraging these people to protest and what can be done about it" indicates that there is something very, very wrong at the heart of American political discourse.

Dam it. I wish I could give this post something higher than just “winner”.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

So you think it's okay for anyone to show up at their jobs and protest anything that they wish? You realize how much these guys are getting paid to entertain us in this country? They want to protest then do it on their own time and their own dime.

By the same token, are you happy for employers to compel political speech on their dime? How is telling employees they MUST stand during the anthem any different to, say, telling any other employee they must, say, wear a "I Hillary" t-shirt?

 

[Jumi]

Don't understand why you need flags in regular sporting events anyway. I can understand they are used when countries compete against each other, though not a fan of that either...

 

[Augustus]

So you think it's okay for anyone to show up at their jobs and protest anything that they wish?

That's not actually relevant to this situation. NFL players conditions are regulated by a collective bargaining agreement, agreed to by the NFL, teams and NFLPA.

This clearly states that players must be on the sideline, but does not state that they must be standing. This cannot be used to force them to stand.

There is also an argument that the agreement prevents conduct detrimental to the NFL, but the NFL have confirmed on more than one occasion that the players do indeed have a right to protest during the anthem.

Once this right has been confirmed, making hiring/firing decisions on this point would probably be illegal as it violates rights that have been given to the players.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...nd-firing-decisions-based-on-anthem-protests/

 

[Augustus]

Just pointing out that if they have a problem with the anthem then let them stay in the locker room till its over.

This they can't do. The NFL had mandated that they must be on the field.

 

[Augustus]

Don't understand why you need flags in regular sporting events anyway.

Playing the national anthem before regular season club games is somewhat odd. Don't think it's done anywhere else in the world (excepting maybe North Korea).

In baseball apparently you get a full, standing hand on heart rendition of 'God bless America' later in the game too in case your patriotism has decreased over the previous 6.5 innings.

 

[Cooky]

Just imagine news anchors and actors protesting something on the set. Should we be wanting to see more of that on the news and in films?

...This is the entertainment industry, guys.

 

[Stanyon]

They certainly aren't paid to stand for the national anthem.

Actually , I think standing for the anthem is in.the code of conduct so they are getting paid for it, have to find the link though.

 

[Augustus]

Actually , I think standing for the anthem is in.the code of conduct so they are getting paid for it, have to find the link though.

They must be on the field according to the collective bargaining agreement. They should stand, but the NFL has confirmed they have the right not to stand.

Just imagine news anchors and actors protesting something on the set. Should we be wanting to see more of that on the news and in films?

...This is the entertainment industry, guys.

The news isn't covered by the NFL's collective bargaining agreement, and, according to the founding fathers, the USA is a republic of laws, not men.

As such, whether people like it is beside the point.

 

[Stanyon]

Inspired by: http://www.profootballweekly.com/20...d-penalty-for-kneeling-before-anthem/a3ss9ts/

Players found on the field kneeling during the national anthem their team may be subjected to a 15-yard penalty. What is sad is this will only create a polarizing environment for professional athletes who feel the need to protest and those who don't. Sad that in Trump's America we can move goal posts when it comes to free speech. I find that free speech is appropriate depending on who you are politically, and racially. For example, I do not see free speech proponents defend NFL players but I do see them come out in defense of the Charlottesville protests. Regardless of the venue of protests, if we're to defend liberty it must not be done by convenience, but by equity.

What do you think of dating sites that ban people they deem Nationalists or Neo Nazis? I think one had the criteria of any display of Thor's hammer tattoos or jewelry automatically made one a Nazi.

 

[Stevicus]

The point is damn the permits that is besides the issue. The issue is the double standard of free speech proponents. What so-called free speech advocates show me is it is okay to allow some Neo-Nazi jacka****** to apply for permits to spew vile racist vitriol since they're acting within the law, but when the players do it the rhetoric is "they're here to entertain us how dare they have opinions about social injustice!"

Yeah, although I think a lot of people get hung up on technicalities, fine print, and loopholes.

 

[BSM1]

By the same token, are you happy for employers to compel political speech on their dime? How is telling employees they MUST stand during the anthem any different to, say, telling any other employee they must, say, wear a "I Hillary" t-shirt?

Absolutely! If you know the criteria of the job then you have to decide if you want to work there. My job, my rules.

 

[Mister Emu]

I think its ignorant to punish an athlete with ideals.

I think it is ignorant to continue to conflate being against ideals pushed in my face when I'm paying for something else with being against ideals.

Not only do these realistic ideals defeat the narrative that NFL players are meatheads

That is a bigoted stereotype.

This is not how sports fans commonly define enjoyment.

But, as a job, their enjoyment, however they define it, is the job. No enjoyment, no money. Simple.

Judging by what you've said thus far no you don't. You judge them by how much they entertain you.

As a consumer it is how I would judge their actions as a product. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

My comparison is not about the intricate details

I know, you don't want informed discourse. You want emotive platitudes. It isn't even about intricate details, but readily apparent and vast differences that create glaring deficiencies in your statements.

 

[BSM1]

Who are you to tell someone what to do with their time? You're certainly not God. You're flesh and bone that breathes oxygen as they do. You cannot dictate anything for them no more than the boy that sells popcorn. People protest all the time and unions support workers wo protest certain work conditions and/or other social issues.

See:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/12/...yers-kneeling-national-anthem-labor-laws.html

First of all, my right to-- wait for it-- freedom of speech says I can say pretty much whatever is on my mind (or does that just apply to those you agree with). Secondly, as an employer I can set the job criteria to suite me, not you. BTW, you noticed when those multi-zero paychecks started getting hit by the lack of attendance at many of these games the tune changed.

 

[BSM1]

I wish there was a triple winner rating I could give you on this.

Make one up...I know I'd wear one out.

 

[fantome profane]

I think it is ignorant to continue to conflate being against ideals pushed in my face when I'm paying for something else with being against ideals.

But you are getting ideas “pushed in your face” regardless. When the players stand at attention that is an idea being “pushed in your face”. The only difference is you like that idea.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's only financially justifiable to them because there is a section of so-called patriots who are fat and want to get entertained seeing a bunch of sweaty black dudes throw the ball around. Damn them having any intellect or opinions that matter!

Why the hate....fat shaming people?
You really ought'a try expressing opinions about issues
without angrily abusing groups you look down upon.