This is where liberty dies

[Epic Beard Man]

What do you think of dating sites that ban people they deem Nationalists or Neo Nazis? I think one had the criteria of any display of Thor's hammer tattoos or jewelry automatically made one a Nazi.

What relevance does this have to do with the discussion? Nothing I would suppose.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Why the hate....fat shaming people?
You really ought'a try expressing opinions about issues
without angrily abusing groups you look down upon.

I have a hard time believing you are that stupid to think I was serious about the fat part. You, who make jokes about damn frubals all the time.

 

[Mister Emu]

But you are getting ideas “pushed in your face” regardless. When the players stand at attention that is an idea being “pushed in your face”. The only difference is you like that idea.

One might quibble about whether something you like is best characterized as pushed in face.

But, that is beside the point. If you want me to keep paying for it, I better like it. Ain't capitalist consumerism grand?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Right and people forget that standing for the anthem is not obligatory in the NFL. Funny when people go to ball games I certainly did not see any signs of patriotism in the beer line.

I think people, or, well, people of certain political alignments, tend to forget no one is obligated to stand for the anthem and go through with all that ritualistic hoo-ha

I didn't realize you can sense anger. I am neither angry nor happy but rather conversing. My post was not even a rant but the very fact you assume anger or ranting is very....interesting....

Yeah. My post was definitely way angrier, lol.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Maybe the kneelers need to join others who hate America. They burn the US flag in Iran. Maybe they could align with them.

Nice little straw man. They don't hate America, but rather are courageous enough to not blindly go along with silly patriotism and pretend our country is just fine and dandy when there are so many serious and dire problems that need addressed.

 

[Cooky]

The news isn't covered by the NFL's collective bargaining agreement, and, according to the founding fathers, the USA is a republic of laws, not men.

As such, whether people like it is beside the point.

Well, if you were Will Smith and I were the drector of Men In Black, and you kept replacing your lines with political points and protesting during filming, I think I'd fire you.

Additionally, like Colin, you might have a hard time working for Hollywood in the future.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Actually , I think standing for the anthem is in.the code of conduct so they are getting paid for it, have to find the link though.

Actually, no, they aren't paid to stand for it. Due to hyper-patriotism they have to go on the field, but they don't have to stand. It's just expected of them by people who worship the flag and forget the troops "fought and died" for our right to not stand for the anthem and even burn the American flag if we want.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

First of all, my right to-- wait for it-- freedom of speech says I can say pretty much whatever is on my mind (or does that just apply to those you agree with).

Actually you cannot say whatever you want....Again, the litmus test to this is to yell fire in a crowded movie theater, or tell someone you're carrying a gun in a grocery store. Or--wait for it--walk up to a group of young black kids and use the dreaded "N word." No, my friend you are not free to say whatever you want. We have social decrees that limit what we can and cannot do, but sure you can "freely" say what you want but you are not free in the sense of being above the consequences. It is by that fact that consequences themselves or the fear of consequences is what limits our actions so you are quite wrong you are not free. But nice try though!

Secondly, as an employer I can set the job criteria to suite me, not you. BTW, you noticed when those multi-zero paychecks started getting hit by the lack of attendance at many of these games the tune changed.

Sure, if you're business owner your business, your rules within reason of course (by this I mean just because you have your own business does not mean you are free to have discriminatory practices) so no argument there. As far as the hit in the NFL pocketbooks I agree I think the biggest hit comes from season ticket holders not necessarily the actual people themselves. As Wutang said "Cas Rules Everything Around Me."

 

[PureX]

I have a large flag pole in my front yard. I did not put it there, the drunks that lived here before I bought the place, did. But since the pole was already there, I flew the nation's flag on it for several years.

But after Trump was elected, I took the flag down, and I will not replace it until he is out of the White House. Mainly because I am profoundly embarrassed for my country, and that we have allowed such and incompetent, mean-spirited, baboon to gain the office of president out of sheer greed and stupidity. I have even thought of perhaps making some sort of flag to fly in it's stead, until that time. Something to express my profound embarrassment for my own country. But I fear that if I did so some trump-tard would decide to punish me for expressing an idea that he/she doesn't like and my home would be vandalized, or I would be attacked.

So I empathize with the athletes that refuse to pay homage or allegiance to a flag that now represents the very worst people and values in our nation, and instead choose to pray for a recovery. And I applaud their courage for doing so in a public forum. Because these days retaliation is often encouraged, rather than discouraged.

 

[Augustus]

Well, if you were Will Smith and I were the drector of Men In Black, and you kept replacing your lines with political points and protesting during filming, I think I'd fire you.

If I were Will Smith I still wouldn't be a party to the NFL CBA which is what matters

Additionally, like Colin, you might have a hard time working for Hollywood in the future.

Although, unlike Colin, I probably wouldn't be able to sue anyone and have some chance of success.

 

[Stanyon]

What relevance does this have to do with the discussion? Nothing I would suppose.

It is an attempt to understand your logic, if you can chastise one business for denying liberty or promoting censorship then the same rules should apply to other businesses as well. It's not the end of the world or liberty in either case IMO, there are options if you disagree with the NFL or dating sites.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As people are insisting "they are paid to perform and entertain us," so why not just do away with the national anthem and get straight to the game? There's nothing entertaining about a ritual that involves people standing to a song that few people can properly sing.

 

[BSM1]

Actually you cannot say whatever you want....Again, the litmus test to this is to yell fire in a crowded movie theater, or tell someone you're carrying a gun in a grocery store. Or--wait for it--walk up to a group of young black kids and use the dreaded "N word." No, my friend you are not free to say whatever you want. We have social decrees that limit what we can and cannot do, but sure you can "freely" say what you want but you are not free in the sense of being above the consequences. It is by that fact that consequences themselves or the fear of consequences is what limits our actions so you are quite wrong you are not free. But nice try though!



Sure, if you're business owner your business, your rules within reason of course (by this I mean just because you have your own business does not mean you are free to have discriminatory practices) so no argument there. As far as the hit in the NFL pocketbooks I agree I think the biggest hit comes from season ticket holders not necessarily the actual people themselves. As Wutang said "Cas Rules Everything Around Me."

Wrong again, Kemo Sabe. You didn't read my post carefully. I didn't say I was free to say anything I wanted. But you are wrong about my freedom to walk into any crowd of people and call them what ever I choose. This, of course, questions my sanity but not my freedom.

All businesses have discriminatory practices. The terms of employment determines the discrimination. Sometimes attitude is a larger hindrance to gainful employment than skin color.

 

[Cooky]

As people are insisting "they are paid to perform and entertain us," so why not just do away with the national anthem and get straight to the game? There's nothing entertaining about a ritual that involves people standing to a song that few people can properly sing.

I guess the director of the show wants it to be part of the act.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That is a bigoted stereotype.

Not my view, blame it on the people who have no idea about sports but think athletes are simply dumb jocks.

But, as a job, their enjoyment, however they define it, is the job. No enjoyment, no money. Simple.

Fair enough. My position is that of an athlete.

As a consumer it is how I would judge their actions as a product. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Fair enough. However the enjoyment that you have comes from your favorite team and their hard work and the love you have for that team. The kneeling aspect does not deter you away from the team. If it does, you're not a true fan anyway.

I know, you don't want informed discourse.

But you're not saying anything I haven't heard before. You're regurgitating the tireless diatribe I constantly hear from conservatives about how they should be entertained. I notice you consider humans as products and objects instead of living beings with minds of their own. Surely this attitude finds its similitude with that of the mob we call Romans who want to be entertain at the gladiators expense.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Sometimes attitude is a larger hindrance to gainful employment than skin color.

If you're stupid enough to believe that fire someone because of their skin pigmentation and see if you wont find your a** in a legal battle.

 

[Thief]

Inspired by: http://www.profootballweekly.com/20...d-penalty-for-kneeling-before-anthem/a3ss9ts/

Players found on the field kneeling during the national anthem their team may be subjected to a 15-yard penalty. What is sad is this will only create a polarizing environment for professional athletes who feel the need to protest and those who don't. Sad that in Trump's America we can move goal posts when it comes to free speech. I find that free speech is appropriate depending on who you are politically, and racially. For example, I do not see free speech proponents defend NFL players but I do see them come out in defense of the Charlottesville protests. Regardless of the venue of protests, if we're to defend liberty it must not be done by convenience, but by equity.

sorry I got here late......

who was it that said?.....I don't agree with what you say......
but I will defend to the death your right to say it

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think people, or, well, people of certain political alignments, tend to forget no one is obligated to stand for the anthem and go through with all that ritualistic hoo-ha

Yeah. My post was definitely way angrier, lol.

Right and that is the crux of the issue. Many right wing conservatives forget that in the NFL nobody is obligated to stand for the pledge.....As far as your angry post remember I have a narrative here and that is to be the angry black man so my opinions will stand out more.

 

[Stanyon]

We have social decrees that limit what we can and cannot do, but sure you can "freely" say what you want but you are not free in the sense of being above the consequences.

So if players want to kneel during the anthem they should suffer the consequences as well correct?

 

[BSM1]

Actually, no, they aren't paid to stand for it. Due to hyper-patriotism they have to go on the field, but they don't have to stand. It's just expected of them by people who worship the flag and forget the troops "fought and died" for our right to not stand for the anthem and even burn the American flag if we want.

Actually I agree with you. My time in service was offered to protect these freedoms; which include my right to own and use property as I see fit. If I go down to the local Walmart and shuck out my hard earned money to purchase a flag, then that's my property to display, wear, wipe my feet on, burn...whatever. If the flag is sacred, don't sell it in stores. But, by the same token, I do not have the right to tell my employer what he can and cannot do in respect to his flag.