This is why Black Lives SHOULD Matter

[Debater Slayer]

Yes, as I've said before, that is a very real factor.
Do you agree?

Yes, I've said that too. It's part of the larger problem of policiing.
Do you agree?

Yes and yes. I also think the efforts of BLM to highlight the racism within some segments of the American police are crucial to police reform.

I agree, & that is exactly what I'm advocating,
along with other criminal justice system reforms.

It's refreshing to get straight questions about one's views.
If more did this, there'd be less talking past each other.

Textual communication has many shortcomings. People's sometimes talking past each other is one of them.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes and yes. I also think the efforts of BLM to highlight the racism within some segments of the American police are crucial to police reform.

I agree.
Problems notwithstanding, the movement is useful in that regard.
But strong anti-BLM sentiment is oft expressed by those who should
also demand police reform. Exposing them to the larger picture, ie,
that they too are abused by cops, courts, & prisons, should enlist
their advocacy for reform. Instead of tribes opposing each other,
they should all be one team striving for progress.

Textual communication has many shortcomings. People's sometimes talking past each other is one of them.

A little effort to understand goes far.

 

[metis]

I frequent right-wing news sites and listen to conservative Christian radio a fair bit, and one thing that's become abundantly clear is that they feel threatened. From their POV, their status and place in America is slipping away as the country moves away from Christianity, becomes more ethnically diverse, and tolerates LGBTQs more. Recently I saw an analysis that showed many of the Jan. 6 insurrectionists were from parts of the country that used to be white conservative Christian strongholds, but are becoming more diverse and liberal.

From what I can tell, all of those things together both frighten them and make them extremely angry. As we all saw, Trump tapped directly into all that, fanned the flames, and told them they had to fight against it all. It'll be interesting to say the least to see where this all goes.


That's true, but surveys show the things those middle Americans are concerned about are not things Democrats can really connect with them on. They're not about to speak to, and connect with, their racial anxieties, hatred of LGBTQs, and theocratic wishes.

Well said, and I have heard some "lapsed" Republicans, such as George Will [former chief editor of the conservative magazine "National Review"] and Michael Steele [former head of the RNC], say that the Republican Party has basically endorsed racism and authoritarianism. And, for what it's worth, I have to agree with them because of both what so many of them have said and done.

IOW, it is now the "Party of Trump".

 

[Jose Fly]

Well said

Thanks!

and I have heard some "lapsed" Republicans, such as George Will [former chief editor of the conservative magazine "National Review"] and Michael Steele [former head of the RNC], say that the Republican Party has basically endorsed racism and authoritarianism. And, for what it's worth, I have to agree with them because of both what so many of them have said and done.

IOW, it is now the "Party of Trump".

Oh for sure, and those folks are being drummed out of the GOP. Just look at what happened to Rep. Liz Cheney, who up until she turned against Trump's narrative about the Jan. 6 insurrection, was considered a hard-core conservative (her voting record supports that).

I think the most worrisome aspect of Trump is how he seems to have united what were once disparate groups of white supremacists, racists, militias, and far-right conspiracy nuts under a common cause (white Christian nationalism). History shows that sort of thing usually doesn't end well, and as it becomes increasingly obvious that Trump isn't returning to the presidency, I expect some of those groups to at least attempt another attack. Hopefully law enforcement will be able to stop them before they actually pull something off.

 

[Lyndon]

And many racists deny the greater deaths among whites
as having any significance. They're so anti-white that they
believe the biggest problem is police abuse of everyone.
Those of us who are woke face both the proportional and
the total numbers. Facing this full picture is necessary if
we're to address & fix it.

That's not true at all if you read the link I posted which say you never do, whites only amount for 50% of police fatalities the other 50% are minorities, the worst hit being blacks at 3 times the level of fatalities as whites

 

[Revoltingest]

That's not true at all if you read the link I posted which say you never do, whites only amount for 50% of police fatalities the other 50% are minorities...

This value for minorities doesn't relate to blacks & whites.
Read more carefully, please.

 

[Lyndon]

This value for minorities doesn't relate to blacks & whites.
Read more carefully, please.

it refers to hispanics, blacks, asians and native americans thats 50% of the fatalities, whats so indicative of your attitude is how you conveniently deleted the part of my quote where i mentioned that Blacks are 3 times as likely as whites to be killed by Police officers as per my link, can you not handle the truth?? Why did you delete that

 

[Revoltingest]

it refers to hispanics, blacks, asians and native americans thats 50% of the fatalities

Whether your strawman is correct or not,
it doesn't relate to my posts.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah...and I'm not anti-BLM.

#109Revoltingest, 25 minutes ago

You sure are prejudice though. Willing to tell me and my community to "look at the bigger picture" when we are the ones wearing the color and engaging in the disparities of police misconduct. Easier for a white person to put on rosy glasses when they're not experiencing anything and I'm talking to you.

I really wish you'd stop speaking for all black people or people of color, or acting like you represent us and our experiences. I have the opposite opinion of you on this issue and I can be seen as black like you can.

I've been staying out this thread on purpose but this is getting out of hand.

 

[Kooky]

I really wish you'd stop speaking for all black people or people of color, or acting like you represent us and our experiences. I have the opposite opinion of you on this issue and I can be seen as black like you can.

I've been staying out this thread on purpose but this is getting out of hand.

Do you identify as Black?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do you identify as Black?

I'm mixed, so I'm often considered black regardless of how I identify.

 

[Kooky]

I'm mixed, so I'm often considered black regardless of how I identify.

That doesn't answer the question.

 

[Revoltingest]

Another response that avoids alerting me?
(I notice that you're capable of quoting other posters.)
That trick won't work.
I see all.

You're white....

Is that a problem?
Should I apologize for it?

....and unempathetic to marginalized communities of color.

How is it that those who know the least about
me are the most strident in their criticism?
Must be an internet thing.

You want to presume that "everyone is targeted" when the statistics do not lie.

Statistics require interpretation.
I disagree with yours for being narrow.

Racism is a problem because it exists in the system of our country, and for you to deny that means you do not want to see the truth for what it is.

I've acknowledged that racism exists.

Clearly, you're the only one in this thread that agrees with your thought.

Argumentum ad populum is a weak argument indeed.
I don't need an amen chorus for validation.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Do you think the disparate number of cop shootings of black people is an indication of racism or not?

There are several studies that indicate an implicit bias for instance many officers that police in urban communities are unfamiliar with the community because they (the police) reside in a different area of members of a different economic class, however, may perceive people of that community in stereotypical fashion. According to trustandjustice.org:

"In the context of criminal justice and community safety, implicit bias has been shown to have significant influence in the outcomes of interactions between police and citizens. While conscious, “traditional” racism has declined significantly in recent decades, research suggests that “implicit attitudes may be better at predicting and/or influencing behavior than self-reported explicit attitudes.”

Reference:Implicit Bias

Research has indicated that there is difficulty in finding racial bias especially in police shootings based on several factors, one of those factors is determining the context of the shooting the question must be asked whether the officer engaged the "suspect" in a manner indicative to a bias against his ethnicity? The American Psychological Association may have answers to that:

"Still, evidence for racial disparities is growing. Most of those data focus on the treatment of black civilians by white officers. In an analysis of national police-shootings data from 2011–14, for example, Cody T. Ross, a doctoral student in anthropology at the University of California, Davis, concluded there is "evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans." The probability of being black, unarmed and shot by police is about 3.5 times the probability of being white, unarmed and shot by police, he found (PLOS One, 2015).

Reference:Policing in black & white

Overall police behavior in the U.S. seems to require significant reform, but statistics show that black people are disproportionately targeted by police violence. Addressing the racial element doesn't preclude also addressing the overarching problem of incompetence and undue violence from cops.

I agree there needs to be reform which also goes back to the issue with Critical Race Theory that highlights that it isn't the individual racist that is the issue, but the systems in place that cause racial disparities in society. The United States has a history of systemic racism which is an incontrovertible truth, and it needs to be addressed which includes police reform because it is the systems in place that are contributing to the police misconduct. I'll share a small video with you (if you care to look at it) of a grandfather who was shot and killed by a SWAT team. No criminal record, just kicked his door in threw a flashbang and was shot 9 times while he was sleep.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I really wish you'd stop speaking for all black people or people of color, or acting like you represent us and our experiences. I have the opposite opinion of you on this issue and I can be seen as black like you can.

I've been staying out this thread on purpose but this is getting out of hand.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I really wish you'd stop speaking for all black people or people of color, or acting like you represent us and our experiences.

I belong to this community and speak for like-minded individuals. Individuals who encompass BLM, individuals who encompass the black student unions. There are plenty of African-Americans who have these same grievances per the original video I have provided and subsequent posts, references, and links I have provided. I never said I speak for you individually but I speak for like-minded African-Americans.

I'm mixed, so I'm often considered black regardless of how I identify.

Being considered black does not mean you ARE or identify as black. Rachel Dolezal looks like a "person of color" but genetically she is white. You look "mixed" if that is your picture in the avatar window, but there is a difference between being considered black and actually being black. For all, I know you could be Dominican, or Arab. Having kinky hair and a beard doesn't make you black because there are many Latinos that appear to have coarse hair, same with Arabs.

 

[Lyndon]

seriously I think Frankenstein is part Black, at least that's what he told us, its rather rude to try and argue with that, he's certainly not Black like Rachel Dolezal

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I belong to this community and speak for like-minded individuals. Individuals who encompass BLM, individuals who encompass the black student unions. There are plenty of African-Americans who have these same grievances per the original video I have provided and subsequent posts, references, and links I have provided. I never said I speak for you individually but I speak for like-minded African-Americans.



Being considered black does not mean you ARE or identify as black. Rachel Dolezal looks like a "person of color" but genetically she is white. You look "mixed" if that is your picture in the avatar window, but there is a difference between being considered black and actually being black. For all, I know you could be Dominican, or Arab. Having kinky hair and a beard doesn't make you black because there are many Latinos that appear to have coarse hair, same with Arabs.

I'm half black. I don't need to prove myself to you or anyone else.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm half black. I don't need to prove myself to you or anyone else.

Looking over the whole thread, your race (& mine)
is only an issue when disagreeing with the OP.
Otherwise, one gets no grief for posting...even
the white guys, as long as they support the OP.
I find this ad hoc standard inconsistent.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Looking over the whole thread, your race (& mine)
is only an issue when disagreeing with the OP.
Otherwise, one gets no grief for posting...even
the white guys, as long as they support the OP.
I find this ad hoc standard inconsistent.

It's pretty offensive to call someone's ethnic heritage into question like that. It's like, how dare you. I know who my mother and father were. And Dominican, Arab, Latino? What the hell? That's as dumb as when this ignorant white person asked if I was Polynesian. Sorry, my dad's side of the family are boring black folks from New Orleans and my mom's side are boring white people from Ohio. I'm not "exotic".