This is why Black Lives SHOULD Matter

[Epic Beard Man]

This is my favorite white woman who thinks she is black. She's racist and crazy as hell, too. She went why further than Rachel did. Lmao.

Spoiler: Trashy girl on Maury, lol

I remember her. I used to follow her on Facebook. She is extremely deluded. She is literally a poster child for "black face."

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm glad she was widely rejected and not granted permission to use the same sort of claims we do. She really is a stereotypical white person shamelessly feeling entitled to take whatever she wants for herself.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Normally I wouldn't take offense at someone adopting or appropriating aspects of black culture, but when you're a white woman who initially sued Howard University for racial discrimination (she lost her case by the way) on the premise that you were not accepted because you are white, and then upon actually finally getting admitted to the graduate program at Howard all of a sudden you are black and are a chairperson of the NAACP your credibility with me and most scholars, academics, and professionals is shot.

 

[Stevicus]

A better approach....
We needn't carefully guard who we are. And others
won't challenge, dismiss, or attack one's identity.

Also, this thread is posted specifically in a debate
forum. Yet debate has been met with racially charged
ad hominem attacks. One always has the option of
non-debate forums where challenge is prohibited.

I think it's relevant to know something about someone's background and personal experience, in order to better understand where they're coming from.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think it's relevant to know something about someone's background and personal experience, in order to better understand where they're coming from.

That underlies my post.
The problem is when posters attack the person for it.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Let me say this before I kindly bow out because I believe I've gotten my point across to others who in all respects are like-minded progressives like myself. Ultimately, the purpose of this thread was first, to show the humanity of a grieving mother who lost her son tragically through police misconduct. Although this is one incident, these types of incidents have happened during my time, my parent's time, and my grandparents' time. I thank God today we have camera phones to record potential police misconduct. @Revoltingest insinuated earlier with a question "why couldn't I present an argument as opposed to a video?"

Well...

The video as I've mentioned before encapsulates the pain and anguish and my hope was to have the viewer at least for that moment reach down in their humanity and relate to the mother's pain. Of course, some here were brave enough to watch or at least part of the video. The debate here was about how this grieving mother's pain, the loss of her son, the misconduct of the former police officer, as well and the subsequent statistics I've provided regarding the disparities that exist in communities of color as to why BLACK LIVES SHOULD MATTER. The data doesn't lie, there are social inequities that exist, and of course, the right-wing media likes to politicize the matter but one cannot deny the systems in place that affect marginalized communities, and because they exist this calls for the reformation of the systems.

In my time here since 2013 even discussing topics on race are touchy. I find it touchy at least those viewing it because for one, many people here come from different walks of life with different perspectives, but most important some of the members here look at social issues regarding people of color through a narrow lens without analyzing all the factors that contribute to the dilemmas of communities of color. Others, simply view problems through a political lens which is usually right-wing conservative. For the latter in my experience, many people can't or choose to not resonate with the pain and anguish of POC because oftentimes their cognition leads them to say "well if you obey the law you wouldn't be in this predicament" or the common talking point "if you stopped resisting you wouldn't get shot." All of which amounts to the dehumanization of the individual, the family, and the entire situation. Nobody asks "why is he resisting?" In the Chauvin case or example, instead of looking at the facts and questioning why an officer had his knee on his neck, some immediately go to the blame game.

You see, when police conduct happens before anything comes out and when it is involving someone black, explicit and implicit bias sets in because the black person is immediately thought to be guilty. You see, the video I initially posted I could post on a black forum and 99.999999% I'll get a resounding agreement from like-minded black folks, but that is to be expected because when it comes to things like this most black folks can relate because in one way or another we have experienced discrimination, racism, as well as racial profiling from police. But I intentionally post things here because as I understand it, many of you (not those of you specifically but I'm speaking generally) may not be around black Americans or black people based on where you live. My intent is to share some issues that are going on here in the United States so that you can see the humanity in our pain and our desperate need for change starting with the systems that are creating these social disparities, not just for black people, but for all marginalized groups.

All in all, I've failed in my mission to reach people. Frankly, I am of the opinion some of you (again not being specific here just a general observation) do not care for what is going on in communities of color ESPECIALLY the African-American community and I think it largely has to do with not wanting to face the realization that there are disparities in our community that exist or want to simply ignore system racism exists altogether. Many black scholars say when a black voice speaks out on injustice it is simply drowned out with dismissal, but if a white voice speaks out it is heard which is why it is up to our white counterparts and other allies to, unfortunately, speak for those black voices like mine that are silenced.

 

[Stevicus]

That underlies my post.
The problem is when posters attack the person for it.

True, although that might depend on how one views "attacking the person."

As a parallel example, let's say I said something like "Capitalists are horrible people." Note that it doesn't specifically attack any individual capitalist; it's a generalized statement. Someone might respond "I am a capitalist, and I am offended. You have attacked me." They might also see it as having a moral imperative to counter-attack on an individual basis.

It might be similar when someone brings up the concept of "white privilege." A white person might respond and say "Hey, I'm white, but I'm not privileged." They might not feel personally attacked, but they might see it as misinformation. There's worlds of difference between a poor white person from West Virginia as opposed to a snooty white upper class liberal from NYC.

 

[Revoltingest]

@Revoltingest insinuated earlier with a question "why couldn't I present an argument as opposed to a video?"

Your quoted text is a false invention.
I neither "insinuated" nor said it.

Many black scholars say when a black voice speaks out on injustice it is simply drowned out with dismissal, but if a white voice speaks out it is heard which is why it is up to our white counterparts and other allies to, unfortunately, speak for those black voices like mine that are silenced.

If you want to be heard, then you should be willing to also listen.
This means not dismissing anyone simply because of race or
personal prejudice against one.

 

[Revoltingest]

True, although that might depend on how one views "attacking the person."

Clearly, some believe that it's OK to make personal attacks.
That view is against the rules & spirit of the forum.

As a parallel example, let's say I said something like "Capitalists are horrible people." Note that it doesn't specifically attack any individual capitalist; it's a generalized statement. Someone might respond "I am a capitalist, and I am offended. You have attacked me." They might also see it as having a moral imperative to counter-attack on an individual basis.

You're not addressing what's happened in this thread.
I spoke of specific attacks upon individuals, not against
questionable criticism of classes of people.

 

[Stevicus]

Clearly, some believe that it's OK to make personal attacks.
That view is against the rules & spirit of the forum.

You're not addressing what's happened in this thread.
I spoke of specific attacks upon individuals, not against
questionable criticism of classes of people.

I was just bringing up a counter-example, without necessarily calling anyone out in this thread. The point was, if someone feels as if the group they identify with is attacked, then they might see it as fair game to attack the individual making the attack.

 

[Revoltingest]

I was just bringing up a counter-example....

It was an expansion...not really counter to my specific point.

But about actual specifics rather broad hypotheticals....
Do you find it acceptable or wrong to debate
issues by criticizing a person for their race or
perceived personal shortcomings in lieu of
arguing the issues?

 

[Stevicus]

It was an expansion...not really counter to my specific point.

But about actual specifics rather broad hypotheticals....
Do you find it acceptable or wrong to debate
issues by criticizing a person for their race or
perceived personal shortcomings in lieu of
arguing the issues?

I think it's wrong to criticize a person on the basis of race or perceived personal shortcomings. In more colloquial terms, it's called "taking a cheap shot" at someone. Cheap shots are low class and a sign of immaturity - the kind of stuff I remember from junior high school.

On the other hand, I try not to read more into it than that. I don't think one can make a whole psychoanalysis of someone just based on something they said on a message board.

 

[Revoltingest]

On the other hand, I try not to read more into it than that. I don't think one can make a whole psychoanalysis of someone just based on something they said on a message board.

No, I have you fully diagnosed.
But it would be inappropriate to post.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The show treats her as an offensive joke. But it's clear
that she has some serious brain vs body problems.
Is it funny in the same way men transitioning to women
(or vice versa) is funny?

Except we have no evidence to support the idea of being "transracial."
With people who are trans we can crack their skull open to find a brain that more resembles the sex the individual identifies as.

 

[Revoltingest]

Except we have no evidence to support the idea of being "transracial."

Does it matter when she's clearly being mocked
for mental illness relating to body issues?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

if you stopped resisting you wouldn't get shot.

That one especially I do not get how people rationalize it. The cops are not state sanctioned executioners, but such behaviors are often accepted as a part of the job. Cops playing executioner does often have no need, it does deprive people of life and Constitutional rights, and it is police taking the entirety of the legal system into their hands. Even those who resist are ultimately entitled to their day in court, and most often didn't actually do anything to endanger the cop (except the ones who are out of shape and not used to their heart having to do some actual work).
It's like that "if you have nothing to hide" nonsense. Who cares? We are legally entitled to various protections from invasive intrusions into our privacy, but these sorts think we should all be ok shelving our Constitutional rights (so long as it's not guns).
How people can support and tolerate such things I just don't get.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Does it matter when she's clearly being mocked for mental illness?

How do we know she has a mental illness? The looney who had surgery to be "Korean," for example, strikes me more as a misguided, arrogant douche than someone who's actions are rooted in mental illness.

 

[Revoltingest]

How do we know she has a mental illness?

She went from becoming Pamela Anderson to becoming black.
It's a judgment call, but I see mental illness.

The looney who had surgery to be "Korean," for example, strikes me more as a misguided, arrogant douche than someone who's actions are rooted in mental illness.

His transformation differs from her transmogrification.
Just as you call him an "arrogant douche", many would
call you something worse. I prefer to not judge so
harshly when people do what they feel compelled to
do, & no one else is harmed.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

She went from becoming Pamela Anderson to becoming black.
It's a judgment call, but I see mental illness.

His transformation differs from her transmogrification.
Just as you call him an "arrogant douche", many would
call you something worse. I prefer to not judge so
harshly when people do what they feel compelled to
do, & no one else is harmed.

As I've pointed out, we've seen no evidence to support someone claiming to be transracial. And to my knowledge it's been white people doing it. Not like trans people where people put MtF under the microscope amd ignore the FtM to say it's something men do.

 

[Revoltingest]

As I've pointed out, we've seen no evidence to support someone claiming to be transracial.

I don't either. But mocking someone for a
pretty bad mental problem, even if un-named,
seems wrong.

And to my knowledge it's been white people doing it.

Does that matter, ie, which race transforms into which?
But it can be complicated...
10 Black Celebs Who Successfully Pass For White

 

[Stevicus]

Except we have no evidence to support the idea of being "transracial."
With people who are trans we can crack their skull open to find a brain that more resembles the sex the individual identifies as.

Crack their skull open? I'm sure you didn't mean it literally, but it's just a weird image that popped into my head.

I'm not sure what "transracial" would even imply. I do know of situations where someone of one race who, by adoption or circumstance, happened to be raised among people of another race. I knew a woman who was born in Korea, but adopted as a baby by white American parents, so linguistically and culturally, she was more American than Korean. But she didn't make any attempt change her external features, as that would be kind of weird.

I don't think that people need to make any physical changes to their appearance, but I can understand if people spend enough time in a community, they'll adopt some of the ways and culture of the community and begin to identify with it. If it's a mixed community where there are multiple cultures living in close proximity, they rub off on each other and influence each other.

I suppose it's possible for people to lose sight of reality and get confused. A white person might actually think that she's black, but I'm not sure I would read any malicious intention in that. Such a person might genuinely be mentally ill. However, if someone does it for political opportunism or some other nefarious purpose, then that would be different.