Those who believe there is no God live by faith

[3rdAngel]

But can you prove no one does?

There is a difference between what one off people believe vs claims made by 1/3 of the worlds population. If some individual person says "I believe in pink unicorns" and no one else has you would recommend them to see a doctor. If 1/3 (billions of people) of the worlds population say God has revealed himself to them you would have to ask the question why IMO.

 

[Ayjaydee]

You missed a category: many believe gods exist but there was no creator!

 

[Ayjaydee]

There is a difference between what one off people believe vs claims made by 1/3 of the worlds population. If some individual person says "I believe in pink unicorns" and no one else has you would recommend them to see a doctor. If 1/3 (billions of people) of the worlds population say God has revealed himself to them you would have to ask the question why IMO.

Please dont tell me what I would do

 

[3rdAngel]

You missed a category: many believe gods exist but there was no creator!

Sorry Ayjay I must have missed that. Did you wish you explain your point better?

 

[3rdAngel]

Please dont tell me what I would do

Well you can believe in pink unicorns if you like. I would tell you to go and see a doctor (joking)

 

[Ayjaydee]

Sorry Ayjay I must have missed that. Did you wish you explain your point better?

My point was you neglected to mention a category to which many belong

 

[Ayjaydee]

Well you can believe in pink unicorns if you like. I would tell you to go and see a doctor (joking)

I said I didnt! what led you to believe otherwise

 

[3rdAngel]

My point was you neglected to mention a category to which many belong

Ok thanks Ayjay

 

[3rdAngel]

I said I didnt! what led you to believe otherwise

I was not serious Ayjay just trying to make light hearted comment.

 

[3rdAngel]

Who, other than you, has made the claim that lack of evidence proves lack of what is lacking evidence?

Say what??

 

[blü 2]

Hi blu, nice to see you again.

And you ─ I enjoy our discussions.

You will know God when you meet him.

So God is male, you say? A human male, I take it? Or is he a male of a distinct species?

Maybe your trying to find him in the wrong places and the wrong way?

What real thing am I trying to find, and in what real place should I be looking?

If your opened to finding God why not try looking for him through his appointed way? I would point you to prayer and the study of the biblical scriptures.

My view, after a lot of consideration, is that this only leads to imaginary gods, gods that one makes up in one's head. Such a god, for example, doesn't know anything I don't know, doesn't answer questions like Is the Riemann hypothesis true or false, and what's the demonstration? Or, Where can I buy a new battery for that eight-year-old phone of mine? or What are next week's winning lottery numbers? or even Who of my dead friends and relatives are in hell, and why? So really, what's the point?

Others may point you somewhere else but if you started with a personal prayer to God I believe he will guide you if you have an opened mind to believe.

Guide me to what? The place that sells those batteries?

I know what I believe and have peace in the fact for some things I live by faith.

I warmly wish you a long and happy life accordingly.

Yet they have no peace in their belief yet they do not know why.

A life worth living has its share of ups, down, anxieties and surprises, but "have peace" isn't on my list of goals. Still, I think it's fair to say that, close enough, I have as much peace as I'd wish for myself.

There are many definitions of God my friend.

I fear that from where I stand, that simply underlines the idea that we devise our own gods in our own heads. Seems to me a real god would have only one definition, identity and set of purposes.

Thanks for sharing blu, it is always nice to talk to you

Thanks. The pleasure is mutual.

 

[Polymath257]

I do not know anyone who believe in pink unicorns or makes a religion out of them

Why is that relevant? Is the number of people believing in something relevant for determining if it is true or not?

The point is that the evidence for God and the evidence for pink unicorns or leprechauns is the same: nothing at all.

You point to the world around us as evidence of a God. How is that evidence that distinguishes a universe with no God and a universe *with* a God? Because if it can't distinguish between the two scenarios, it simply isn't evidence one way or the other.

 

[Polymath257]

My view, after a lot of consideration, is that this only leads to imaginary gods, gods that one makes up in one's head. Such a god, for example, doesn't know anything I don't know, doesn't answer questions like Is the Riemann hypothesis true or false, and what's the demonstration? Or, Where can I buy a new battery for that eight-year-old phone of mine? or What are next week's winning lottery numbers? or even Who of my dead friends and relatives are in hell, and why? So really, what's the point?

I just heard a podcast where someone who was really into the singer Cher started hearing Cher's voice helping her out in various situations. She said it was distinctively Cher and was often helpful for her decision making.

The point is that we can program our brains to 'hear messages', sometimes even helpful messages that seem to be based on things we don't know. I think this is exactly what is happening when people pray or meditate. They are programming themselves to believe in whatever they choose.

And yes, after that, they will have a 'relationship' with their imaginary friend, just like the woman in the podcast had a 'relationship' (including conversations) with Cher.

 

[Ayjaydee]

I just heard a podcast where someone who was really into the singer Cher started hearing Cher's voice helping her out in various situations. She said it was distinctively Cher and was often helpful for her decision making.

The point is that we can program our brains to 'hear messages', sometimes even helpful messages that seem to be based on things we don't know. I think this is exactly what is happening when people pray or meditate. They are programming themselves to believe in whatever they choose.

And yes, after that, they will have a 'relationship' with their imaginary friend, just like the woman in the podcast had a 'relationship' (including conversations) with Cher.

Why cannot one convince themselves of whatever they want to believe during any waking moment? Surely one doesn't need to engage in prayer or meditation to do that?

 

[3rdAngel]

And you ─ I enjoy our discussions.

Like wise thanks Blu.

So God is male, you say? A human male, I take it? Or is he a male of a distinct species?

All I know from the scriptures is that God said let US make MAN in OUR image according to the scriptures *GENESIS 1:26 and that God is a Spirit * JOHN 4:24. But these three are one in mind and purpose * 1 JOHN 5:7

What real thing am I trying to find, and in what real place should I be looking?

Good question. I would start by prayer and simply ask God to guide you to him. I would point you to the biblical scriptures. I am sure others would try and point you elsewhere but if you start with prayer and an honest and open heart. God does promise to guide and teach you

My view, after a lot of consideration, is that this only leads to imaginary gods, gods that one makes up in one's head. Such a god, for example, doesn't know anything I don't know, doesn't answer questions like Is the Riemann hypothesis true or false, and what's the demonstration? Or, Where can I buy a new battery for that eight-year-old phone of mine? or What are next week's winning lottery numbers? or even Who of my dead friends and relatives are in hell, and why? So really, what's the point?

You seem to have thought about things alot without trying and putting things into practice and from what I see have made up your mind to have a closed view of God. My experience that I cannot prove to you was that God led me to know him when I did seek him through prayer. He lead me to a prayerful study of the scriptures where he revealed himself to me through answered prayers and other things in my life. I know him and he know me. His presence brings me peace as I abide in him. I feel no need to prove him to anyone because I know he is real. I can only tell you of my experience with him. He revealed himself to me only after I did seek after him through prayer and through believing and following him through his Word (his appointed way). I know those who want some kind of sign or miricle evidence before they believe will never understand this but I am ok with it because simply I know my own experience.

Guide me to what? The place that sells those batteries?

Guide to you him (God). He will make himself known to you if you seek after him. He is always calling us. Many do not hear him or simply choose not to.

I warmly wish you a long and happy life accordingly. A life worth living has its share of ups, down, anxieties and surprises, but "have peace" isn't on my list of goals. Still, I think it's fair to say that, close enough, I have as much peace as I'd wish for myself. I fear that from where I stand, that simply underlines the idea that we devise our own gods in our own heads. Seems to me a real god would have only one definition, identity and set of purposes. Thanks. The pleasure is mutual.

Yes thanks likewise Blu, I only wish you all the best as well. I agree many can make up their own gods that are not real gods but imaginary. People have been doing so all through time. That does not mean however in my view that there is no God but simply people trying to seek and find God in a way they can never find him. I have a peace now in my life I had never had before I did not know God. This though is something that no one can really fathom except those who have experienced knowing God.

Thanks for sharing Blu. I wish you well

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ I do not know anyone who believe in pink unicorns or makes a religion out of them

Your response...

Why is that relevant? Is the number of people believing in something relevant for determining if it is true or not?

The point is that the evidence for God and the evidence for pink unicorns or leprechauns is the same: nothing at all.

You point to the world around us as evidence of a God. How is that evidence that distinguishes a universe with no God and a universe *with* a God? Because if it can't distinguish between the two scenarios, it simply isn't evidence one way or the other.

No. It is relavant because no one believes in them. No one collectively is convinced they exist or are real. No one has made a religion out of them because they believe they are real. No one has seen one. Your comparing isolated cases with billions of people that claim God has revealed himself to them personally. If your talking about an isolated case you have to wonder if there is any truth in it. When your talking billions or people throughout time all believing the same thing you have collective witnesses of truth. The probability of life from nothing? Do the math.

 

[Ayjaydee]

Your response...



No. It is relavant because no one believes in them. No one collectively is convinced they exist or are real. No one has made a religion out of them because they believe they are real. No one has seen one. Your comparing isolated cases with billions of people that claim God has revealed himself to them personally. If your talking about an isolated case you have to wonder if there is any truth in it. When your talking billions or people throughout time all believing the same thing you have collective witnesses of truth. The probability of life from nothing? Do the math.

Millions of people believe in all sorts of gods that you deny. Why is their truth worth less than yours? The unicorn was a figure of speech.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Did you want to tell me what false witness means or did you want me to help you? Just let me know if you don't I am really happy to do so if you do not know.

It is on the page where you made this post. Are you blind?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your response...



No. It is relavant because no one believes in them. No one collectively is convinced they exist or are real. No one has made a religion out of them because they believe they are real. No one has seen one. Your comparing isolated cases with billions of people that claim God has revealed himself to them personally. If your talking about an isolated case you have to wonder if there is any truth in it. When your talking billions or people throughout time all believing the same thing you have collective witnesses of truth. The probability of life from nothing? Do the math.

Why does the number of people with a false belief matter?

 

[Polymath257]

No. It is relavant because no one believes in them. No one collectively is convinced they exist or are real. No one has made a religion out of them because they believe they are real. No one has seen one. Your comparing isolated cases with billions of people that claim God has revealed himself to them personally. If your talking about an isolated case you have to wonder if there is any truth in it. When your talking billions or people throughout time all believing the same thing you have collective witnesses of truth. The probability of life from nothing? Do the math.

People, even billions of people, can be wrong. And the fact that nobody seems to be able to agree on basic points when it comes to God suggests that there isn't a common entity that they are all discussing. Instead, it suggests that they are each making up whatever appeals to them the most.

As a comparison, it is quite easy for someone who is color blind to realize that people able to see colors are consistent in their descriptions, and that there are observable physical aspects of color. So even a colorblind person can know that colors exist. But there isn't this level of evidence for a God. People seem to be unable to agree on even basic properties of a God.

As for life 'from nothing', nobody suggests that. Life is a chemical and physical process that came about through natural, physical means.

As a mathematician, I have found that *all* probability calculations for something like this are based on faulty assumptions simply because we don't know what it takes for life to arise. Once we have several different examples of how life can arise, we can start to consider probabilities.

So, again, you have failed to give some way of distinguishing a universe with natural laws and no God from one with a God. So, the universe, as it is, simply isn't evidence one way or the other.

On the other hand, the *lack* of definitive proof of the existence of a deity is good evidence against the existence simply because *if* such a deity exists, we would *expect* a lot of unambigiuous evidence.