I worded it wrong. God wants us to attain moksha, so we can be free of suffering. We want to be close to God, and this is what we are concerned about, our journey to the Lord.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Thoughts about God's Forms
- Thread starter Terese
- Start date
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram Terese ji
please no offence is intended , but some times Big replies are needed , to remove confusion , ....all devotees whether Gaudiya or Shri regard Sri Krsna to be the eternal infinite source of all .......
Rather than give my understanding I am giving quotations so that there may be no confusion , ......here in the Comentary to verse 12 -13 from Sri Ramamujacharya , .....
12, ....If hundreds of thousands of suns rose up at once into the sky, they might resemble the effulgence of the Supreme Person in that universal form.
The example of a 1000 suns is a mere illustration to show the degree of infinite splendour and radiance that the form of Lord Krishna's visvarupa or divine universal form displayed in ever increasing measure.
13, ...At that time Arjuna could see in the universal form of the Lord the unlimited expansions of the universe situated in one place although divided into many, many thousands.''
In the Supreme Lord Krishna's divine, transcendental and phenomenal visvarupa or divine universal form infinitely high and unfathomably wide with splendorous effulgence and unlimited faces, heads, eyes and bodies, with unlimited celestial weapons and unlimited celestial ornaments accompanied by celestial unguents, divine garlands and raiment's. All interacting with unlimited wonders and marvels. Arjuna could clearly see manifested in a single location within the universal form all of creation with its unlimited multifarious and variegated details from the greatly powerful Brahma and all the demigods down to a humble blade of grass. He could see the complete animal, vegetable and mineral kingdoms and all the diverse planetary systems all composed of prakriti or the material substratum pervading material existence from the highest Bhur, Bhuvar, Svar etc. all the way down to the lowest planetary system of Patala with all there varying inhabitants, habitats and habits. He could also perceive the brahman or the spiritual substratum pervading all existence with its sublimely subtle transcendental presence imperceptible to normal eyes. All this was seen by Arjuna due to the divine vision bequeathed upon him by Lord Krishna substantiating His declarations in chapter 10 such as verse 39: That He is the origin of all and nothing can exist separately, independent from Him and in verse 42 He states that by a mere fraction of His potency He maintains and sustains all moving and stationary beings.
If If Sri Ramanujacharya Ji has no problem with accepting Sri Krsna to be the source of all entities then we should not argue about the names we ascribe to that one form , .....
there is no ''first'' .....this universal form this Vishvarup displayed to Arjuna contains All existance and no question of Krsna being a small portion of Narayana's power , .....this which I quoted you is not a Gaudia specific veiw , it is almost the entire of the Eleventh Chapter of the Gita therefore one eighteenth of the Gita is devoted to explaining Krsnas Universal Form , .......it does not matter which translatiion or comentary one reads although small diferences may be found in translation there is no difference in the contents , ....
again with all due respects , ....there is no first , ...there is only one supreme eternal source of all being , everything , all universes are an expansion of that one being , ..... Brahman is the unseen allpervasive aspect of that being .
please there is no need that we should see this as a competition , nor need to defend any one position it is a question of understanding , ....Krsna is Visnu there is none other , ..it is just that we have limited understanding of his vast and un limited nature , ....when we take our vows we vow to read from the Gita every day , even after many years of doing this still our understanding deepens every day so there can be no room for dissagreement all that we need do is glorify that Supreme by which ever name we might know him
please no offence is intended , but some times Big replies are needed , to remove confusion , ....all devotees whether Gaudiya or Shri regard Sri Krsna to be the eternal infinite source of all .......
Rather than give my understanding I am giving quotations so that there may be no confusion , ......here in the Comentary to verse 12 -13 from Sri Ramamujacharya , .....
12, ....If hundreds of thousands of suns rose up at once into the sky, they might resemble the effulgence of the Supreme Person in that universal form.
The example of a 1000 suns is a mere illustration to show the degree of infinite splendour and radiance that the form of Lord Krishna's visvarupa or divine universal form displayed in ever increasing measure.
13, ...At that time Arjuna could see in the universal form of the Lord the unlimited expansions of the universe situated in one place although divided into many, many thousands.''
In the Supreme Lord Krishna's divine, transcendental and phenomenal visvarupa or divine universal form infinitely high and unfathomably wide with splendorous effulgence and unlimited faces, heads, eyes and bodies, with unlimited celestial weapons and unlimited celestial ornaments accompanied by celestial unguents, divine garlands and raiment's. All interacting with unlimited wonders and marvels. Arjuna could clearly see manifested in a single location within the universal form all of creation with its unlimited multifarious and variegated details from the greatly powerful Brahma and all the demigods down to a humble blade of grass. He could see the complete animal, vegetable and mineral kingdoms and all the diverse planetary systems all composed of prakriti or the material substratum pervading material existence from the highest Bhur, Bhuvar, Svar etc. all the way down to the lowest planetary system of Patala with all there varying inhabitants, habitats and habits. He could also perceive the brahman or the spiritual substratum pervading all existence with its sublimely subtle transcendental presence imperceptible to normal eyes. All this was seen by Arjuna due to the divine vision bequeathed upon him by Lord Krishna substantiating His declarations in chapter 10 such as verse 39: That He is the origin of all and nothing can exist separately, independent from Him and in verse 42 He states that by a mere fraction of His potency He maintains and sustains all moving and stationary beings.
If If Sri Ramanujacharya Ji has no problem with accepting Sri Krsna to be the source of all entities then we should not argue about the names we ascribe to that one form , .....
there is no ''first'' .....this universal form this Vishvarup displayed to Arjuna contains All existance and no question of Krsna being a small portion of Narayana's power , .....this which I quoted you is not a Gaudia specific veiw , it is almost the entire of the Eleventh Chapter of the Gita therefore one eighteenth of the Gita is devoted to explaining Krsnas Universal Form , .......it does not matter which translatiion or comentary one reads although small diferences may be found in translation there is no difference in the contents , ....
again with all due respects , ....there is no first , ...there is only one supreme eternal source of all being , everything , all universes are an expansion of that one being , ..... Brahman is the unseen allpervasive aspect of that being .
please there is no need that we should see this as a competition , nor need to defend any one position it is a question of understanding , ....Krsna is Visnu there is none other , ..it is just that we have limited understanding of his vast and un limited nature , ....when we take our vows we vow to read from the Gita every day , even after many years of doing this still our understanding deepens every day so there can be no room for dissagreement all that we need do is glorify that Supreme by which ever name we might know him
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram ji
nothing more than a label ??? ........the Word Krsna is Synonomous with Krsna himself they are non different , .....
nothing more than a label ??? ........the Word Krsna is Synonomous with Krsna himself they are non different , .....
Thank you for your answer Ratikala! It was lovely. I see that Krishna and Vishnu are one, but Krishna's vishvarupa was Vishnu, Krishna's true form. Ramanujacharya was talking about Krishna's vishvarupa, which to me is Narayana, and his abode in Vaikuntha with Lakshmi is very much a part of him, but Narayana is not an expansion of Krishna. Narayana is Brahman, the ultimate reality. I didn't mean to make this as a competition, but I really don't believe Krishna is supreme. But since Krishna is Vishnu himself, I suppose that makes him supreme in a way. But I must say that Krishna appeared on earth 5000 years ago and died at the end of the Kurukshetra war, and his atman went back to Narayana. To me, saying Krishna is supreme is like saying Vishnu is supreme, as Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu.
Krishna is Vishnu himself, so when Krishna's form ended his atman went back to Narayana, Vishnu.
Well this is in the Hinduism DIR and the question posed was specifically concerning God's form as it is understood in the Vishnavism sect. So there are going to concerns about philosophy and teachings. Hinduism is fluid, but it's not without structure.
Surely his atman was constant. I don't think atmans (it's strange saying that word in the plural!) go anywhere.
Krishna was not bound by samsara. Why would he reincarnate? Also, when one attains moksha, (Krishna was God himself, so obviously he would) his/her atman goes to Vaikuntha, or goes back to Brahman, our eternal refuge. Either one is fantastic.
To be honest, I was probably put off by the extreme differences in usage of the term between dualist and nondualist philosophies!
What term? Moksha?
Atman.
Well, Advaita, Vishishtadvaita and Dvaita Vedanta are all opinions on the nature of Atman to Brahman. (Although I read that they have to be compatible with the Vedas, and should be) Just like there are many gods, there are many philosophies.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
That is why his soul is the essence of all things in the world and does not need to go anywhere, he already permeates everything. It is not an reincarnation, it is an avatara, his leela, play. Actually, he never left Vaikuntha. He is not bound by Samsara but binds the Samsara.
Use the English word, souls.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
I think we should go beyond the labels, even beyond Krishna, that is to where Krishna himself points to, this is also true with the Buddha, and Christ, not clinging to the label or name but using the name as a catalyst.
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram ji
prabhu ji , ..I think you have missed the entire purport of the Gita , ....there is nothing which is not contained within Krsna , therefore one canot go beyond that which encompases all , ....it is not about clinging or labels it is about true knowledge , ....yes by all means use the name chant it , eventualy you will come to knowledge of its true nature ,
ch 10 , ..v 8 , ....I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts
if you think that Krsna points to a great vacious beyond devoid of form you have missed something in which case please read the Gita again , and if this is so please explain why Krsna says ''worship me and you will come to me '' ?
Ch ..18 V ..65 , ....Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.
.
prabhu ji , ..I think you have missed the entire purport of the Gita , ....there is nothing which is not contained within Krsna , therefore one canot go beyond that which encompases all , ....it is not about clinging or labels it is about true knowledge , ....yes by all means use the name chant it , eventualy you will come to knowledge of its true nature ,
ch 10 , ..v 8 , ....I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts
if you think that Krsna points to a great vacious beyond devoid of form you have missed something in which case please read the Gita again , and if this is so please explain why Krsna says ''worship me and you will come to me '' ?
Ch ..18 V ..65 , ....Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.
.