• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Thoughts on the Fall of Adam

nPeace

Veteran Member
You are confused, probably due to poor reading comprehension on your part.

Now I CLEARLY stated:

" in the verse you quoted to me:

Galatians 5:22-23


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

*************************
Now read that v-e-r-y carefully and look for the "you quoted to me" part. Now that means it was quoted by "URAVIP2ME", therefore has nothing to do with me, so go ask "URAVIP2ME" that question.
No. I am not confused, and my reading comprehension can be vouch for, as being excellent.

@URAVIP2ME responded to your post here, where you said: The bible teaches nothing truly spiritual. So you are wasting your time on it if you want true spiritual answers.

His response was exactly this: I am wondering what is Not spiritual about the fruitage of God's spirit as listed at Galatians 5:22-23 __________

My understanding, and reading comprehension tells me he posted this looking for a response from you, to refute the fact that the qualities mentioned in Galatians 5:22, 23 were all spiritual, and additionally said to be a product of God's holy spirit.
Of course, he probably knew before hand that his response refuted your claim, and he probably knew you could not refute that... and he was right, from what I saw you post in response.
All you did was make more claims, with no evidence whatsoever to support them - making them all baseless.

...and so, I asked a simple question. Do you have all these [qualities mentioned in Galatians 5:22, 23]?
You apparently weren't able to follow, and understand the reason I posed the question, so I will explain.

The question was posed to further refute the baseless claim made earlier by you.
I knew that you could not honestly answer yes.
However, there are persons who do have all these qualities, and the reason they do is because of studying the Bible, and applying Bible principles in their everyday life. Hence, they are living proof that the Bible does teach what is truly spiritual. Moreover, it proves that the Bible is of divine origin. It bears the mark of the God of the Bible - Jehovah, who inspired its writing through holy spirit, and who infuses his followers with holy spirit. 2 Peter 1:20, 21

That said, your statements are false, and proven such.
I hope you comprehend.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You replied to my post of:

"Yawn...

I was only talking about the "genesis" myth, no need to spaz out and spam me with a massive Christian propaganda copy and paste job.

Besides, you're not dealing with a novice here, I've been on other Christian forums before so know all of your tactics of deceit.

But I'll play along with your SPAM. At best all that proves is that SOME of the bible incorporated Jewish historical recordings, whoopty do!

My main concern over the bible is that it in no way came from any "god" because it is totally devoid of even the most basic spiritual matter. Now why would any "god" have a massive book written about himself that gives no spiritual understandings at all?"

***********************
So sorry, but I'm not accepting a vague:

"The Bible offers many spiritual insights but unfortunately few understand or apply them with accurate knowledge."

You're going to have to actually present these "spiritual insights" and show the actual verses. None of this making up whatever you want the verses to mean, give verses that back up your claim on their own, as is.

And you completely avoided providing any proof that the bible came from the Christian "god".
Well, not everyone sees things the same way.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I do not believe they are responsible for the state of mankind today. My pastor hold sthe view that they are but I believe that is seminary teaching and definitely myopic.

I believe I feel for them. It is not easy to be under God's microscope. Not that any of us escape attention but maybe His expectations of us are lower.

I believe God knows everything and one would expect flawed people to fall. I believe God need them to proliferate and that wasn't going to happen in the Garden of Eden.

I believe they would have stayed there enjoying eternal life until some crazy person dropped a bomb on them.

I believe the role of Jesus has always been the same and always is.

I believe one you didn't ask was whether this is the origin of sin although you may have alluded to it by talking about our current state. I believe sin originated long before Adam and Eve and that it comes from Lucifer.
Adam and Eve, really Adam, cast themselves and their progeny in a bad situation. I realize Eve didn't really understand what she did, but Adam did.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Well, not everyone sees things the same way.
That was true in the first century and is true today.
Seeing things the same way would involve seeing things as Jesus taught about things.
For one, Jesus taught that the Bible is religious truth (John 17:17) and that truth sets us free (free from what is false).
So, what Jesus taught sets us free from false religious ideas and practices because of Not being found in Scripture.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That was true in the first century and is true today.
Seeing things the same way would involve seeing things as Jesus taught about things.
For one, Jesus taught that the Bible is religious truth (John 17:17) and that truth sets us free (free from what is false).
So, what Jesus taught sets us free from false religious ideas and practices because of Not being found in Scripture.
Agreed.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
They knew because God told them. He also said what would happen. Eve was deceived. Adam was not . Nevertheless, they both suffered the consequences.
But God lied. So why trust him?

And how could they have known that what they were doing was wrong? You are forgetting about one key aspect of the myth.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
But God lied. So why trust him?

And how could they have known that what they were doing was wrong? You are forgetting about one key aspect of the myth.
They knew what God told them. God did not lie. He said not to eat from that tree. If they did, He said they would die. This was a simple but consequential command. God, according to the account, directly created them. They had beautiful surroundings, food to eat, and enjoyable work to do. Remember, this was the beginning. They didn't have to get up in the morning, face wild animals and crazy people with guns going possibly to jobs they hated.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
By the way, what makes you say that they did not know?

You forgot what tree they ate from and what happened immediately afterwords. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The myth says that they had no way of knowing what was right before hand. Also God said that on the day they ate of that tree they would die. Again that did not happen.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
They knew what God told them. God did not lie. He said not to eat from that tree. If they did, He said they would die. This was a simple but consequential command. God, according to the account, directly created them. They had beautiful surroundings, food to eat, and enjoyable work to do. Remember, this was the beginning. They didn't have to get up in the morning, face wild animals and crazy people with guns going possibly to jobs they hated.
Sure he did. He told them they would die that day. They didn't.

But don't worry too much. It is just a morality tale. We know that there was no Adam and Eve.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I do not believe they are responsible for the state of mankind today. My pastor hold sthe view that they are but I believe that is seminary teaching and definitely myopic.

I believe I feel for them. It is not easy to be under God's microscope. Not that any of us escape attention but maybe His expectations of us are lower.

I believe God knows everything and one would expect flawed people to fall. I believe God need them to proliferate and that wasn't going to happen in the Garden of Eden.

I believe they would have stayed there enjoying eternal life until some crazy person dropped a bomb on them.

I believe the role of Jesus has always been the same and always is.

I believe one you didn't ask was whether this is the origin of sin although you may have alluded to it by talking about our current state. I believe sin originated long before Adam and Eve and that it comes from Lucifer.
Nevertheless we still can make choices and have consequences. Romans 2:12 took me a while to understand, but here it is:
" For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;"
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You forgot what tree they ate from and what happened immediately afterwords. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The myth says that they had no way of knowing what was right before hand. Also God said that on the day they ate of that tree they would die. Again that did not happen.
God told them not to eat from that tree. By eating from that tree they showed they did not appreciate the One that told them not to eat from it. The serpent (later identified as Satan the Devil) convinced Eve she did not have to obey God. Adam on the other hand, listened to Eve.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Sure he did. He told them they would die that day. They didn't.

But don't worry too much. It is just a morality tale. We know that there was no Adam and Eve.
No, we don't know there was no Adam and Eve. Their death sentence was passed the day they disobeyed. They were no longer free to continue living the day they ate from that tree. They were headed towards death once they ate from that tree disobeying the One who made them.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
God told them not to eat from that tree. By eating from that tree they showed they did not appreciate the One that told them not to eat from it. The serpent (later identified as Satan the Devil) convinced Eve she did not have to obey God. Adam on the other hand, listened to Eve.
Yes, but it does not matter what one tells someone that does not know right from wrong. They would have both been innocent by any reasonable standard.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
No, we don't know there was no Adam and Eve. Their death sentence was passed the day they disobeyed. They were no longer free to continue living the day they ate from that tree. They were headed towards death once they ate from that tree disobeying the One who made them.

Of course we do. We know that there never were only two human beings. And it does not matter that they were headed to death in the myth. God told them "On that day you shall die." They did not die that day. God lied. If you take the Bible literally you can't pick and choose which parts to take literally.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
No. I am not confused, and my reading comprehension can be vouch for, as being excellent.

@URAVIP2ME responded to your post here, where you said: The bible teaches nothing truly spiritual. So you are wasting your time on it if you want true spiritual answers.

His response was exactly this: I am wondering what is Not spiritual about the fruitage of God's spirit as listed at Galatians 5:22-23 __________

My understanding, and reading comprehension tells me he posted this looking for a response from you, to refute the fact that the qualities mentioned in Galatians 5:22, 23 were all spiritual, and additionally said to be a product of God's holy spirit.
Of course, he probably knew before hand that his response refuted your claim, and he probably knew you could not refute that... and he was right, from what I saw you post in response.
All you did was make more claims, with no evidence whatsoever to support them - making them all baseless.

...and so, I asked a simple question. Do you have all these [qualities mentioned in Galatians 5:22, 23]?
You apparently weren't able to follow, and understand the reason I posed the question, so I will explain.

The question was posed to further refute the baseless claim made earlier by you.
I knew that you could not ho nestly answer yes.
However, there are persons who do have all these qualities, and the reason they do is because of studying the Bible, and applying Bible principles in their everyday life. Hence, they are living proof that the Bible does teach what is truly spiritual. Moreover, it proves that the Bible is of divine origin. It bears the mark of the God of the Bible - Jehovah, who inspired its writing through holy spirit, and who infuses his followers with holy spirit. 2 Peter 1:20, 21

That said, your statements are false, and proven such.
I hope you comprehend.


Yep, you clearly lack reading comprehension as I completely refuted his baseless claim by presenting some REAL SPIRITUAL matters that is totally lacking in the bible.

Now if you want to debate the issue I re-posted my reply of what REAL spiritual matters are supposed to be in the bible, so go and knock yourself out trying to find anything worthwhile.


Thanks for helping me prove my topmost point, and another one I frequently make.

Now I maintain that the bible holds no true spiritual answers.

The entire mythology is based upon these spiritual matters:

God - a SPIRITUAL Deity
Soul - a SPIRITUAL entity
God's judgment - a SPIRITUAL process
Heaven - a SPIRITUAL place
The "afterlife" - a SPIRITUAL existence

So go and try finding a verse or verses that fully describes:

What is God's true spiritual nature?
What is a soul?
What is involved in God's judgment process?
What is Heaven really like?
What is the "afterlife" going to be like and what will you be doing there for all eternity?

And I want COMPLETE descriptions that gives a full understanding of each of those spiritual matters. And no tricks like claiming "this" means "that" or "that" means "this', etc. Each verse should stand on it's own merit.

And the other point is how the bible, not having any true spiritual answers, makes up a placebo and falsely calims that it's "spiritual" as proven in the verse you quoted to me:

Galatians 5:22-23


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

********************

Now I pointed out the above TRUE spiritual matters, this verse proves my point by having nothing really spiritual mentioned, but just a silly substitute/placebo.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Yep, you clearly lack reading comprehension as I completely refuted his baseless claim by presenting some REAL SPIRITUAL matters that is totally lacking in the bible.

Now if you want to debate the issue I re-posted my reply of what REAL spiritual matters are supposed to be in the bible, so go and knock yourself out trying to find anything worthwhile.
Perhaps you first need to define what spiritual is, because according to you, "there is nothing truly spiritual in the Bible", and I did not just make a claim as you did, but I showed why such a claim is false, and has no base. So i am not sure you really understand or know what spiritual is.
We would really be talking past each other, as seems to be the case, if one person is clueless of the subject.
So what are you really saying, when you use the word "spiritual"?

@Ancient Soul, Also, @URAVIP2ME made no claim, so how can you refute something that wasn't made?
 
Last edited:
Top