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Thoughts on the Fall of Adam

J

Jos

Well-Known Member
I meant to say that's He's not omniscient but omniscience would fall under omnipotence so He wouldn't be omnipotent but whatever... if He is not omnipotent though, how can you call Him God?
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Jos said:
Well if He didn't know then that means He's not omnipotent...
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According to the Bible, God is Almighty.
The word “Almighty” is translated from the Hebrew word Shaddaiʹ and the Greek word Pantokrator. Both words evidently convey the idea of strength or power.
Strength and power does not involve knowledge at all times.

Regarding omniscient, the Bible shows that God is perfect in all his ways, and thus, when considering if God's ability to know everything, means the he knows every detail - past, present, and future, we must consider if that is in harmony with all his ways.

For example, although God is all powerful, this does not mean everything imaginable is possible with God.
The Bible says, God cannot lie; God cannot dwell on earth (the earth cannot contain him); God cannot be wicked...

So it is important we be balanced when considering God's qualities, as described in the Bible.
Does God know if you or I will be saved in the end? Not according to the Bible.
2 Peter 3:9, 10
9 Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. 10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed.

Just as he allows us that free will - freedom to choose our own destiny, he likewise dignified the first humans - Adam and Eve, with that freedom.
Hence he was not aware of the decision they would make.
Please compare Genesis 18:19; 22:11, 12

Yes. God is omnipotent, according to scripture.
 
J

Jos

Well-Known Member
nPeace said:
The material I provided shows no. He is omnipotent.
Did you read the post? What is omnipotence? Why does omnipotence require foreordination?
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I meant to say He's not omniscient but you said further down that He's perfect in all His ways which include perfect knowledge or omniscience... so how He could He not know who's gonna be saved?
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Jos said:
I meant to say He's not omniscient but you said further down that He's perfect in all His ways which include perfect knowledge or omniscience... so how He could He not know who's gonna be saved?
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How does perfect knowledge mean omniscience? What does omniscience mean, and what does perfect knowledge mean?
 
J

Jos

Well-Known Member
nPeace said:
How does perfect knowledge mean omniscience? What does omniscience mean, and what does perfect knowledge mean?
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Omniscience means knowing everything and perfect knowledge means having complete knowledge of everything there is to know...
 
Vaderecta

Vaderecta

Active Member
People questioning each other's personal truths is different than scientific truth. This thread seems to be devolving into chaos.
 
Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
Jos said:
I meant to say He's not omniscient but you said further down that He's perfect in all His ways which include perfect knowledge or omniscience... so how He could He not know who's gonna be saved?
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That's Human's words. God said, "I am that I am."
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Subduction Zone said:
You forgot what tree they ate from and what happened immediately afterwords. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The myth says that they had no way of knowing what was right before hand. Also God said that on the day they ate of that tree they would die. Again that did not happen.
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No, I did not forget what kind of tree they were told not to eat from. It does not say they had no way of knowing that it was bad to eat from that tree. In fact, the account shows the decisions to eat from that tree were bad, since God told them not to do it. They knew they were disobedient. That tree belonged to God. Every other tree they could eat from.
Subduction Zone said:
Yes, but it does not matter what one tells someone that does not know right from wrong. They would have both been innocent by any reasonable standard.
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They were disobedient. Showed lack of gratitude and love for the One who gave them life. They knew right from wrong. Eve wanted to be like God so she ate. The consequences of mankind making his own decisions are what we see today. If they did not know right from wrong there would have been no restriction. There was that one command of restriction. They did not think God meant they should eat from it.
 
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YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Subduction Zone said:
Of course we do. We know that there never were only two human beings. And it does not matter that they were headed to death in the myth. God told them "On that day you shall die." They did not die that day. God lied. If you take the Bible literally you can't pick and choose which parts to take literally.
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Some realize what us symbolic representation vs literal. The account says that God said "in the day you eat from it you shall die." God did not lie. The death sentence was passed the day they ate from it, just like a judge passes the death sentence on someone. Their bodies began to deteriorate towards death he day they disobeyed God and ate from the tree.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Subduction Zone said:
Yes, but it does not matter what one tells someone that does not know right from wrong. They would have both been innocent by any reasonable standard.
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If a mother tells a child who understands speech not to do something it doesn't mean maybe do it. Adam and Eve knew they should not eat from that tree. They were created with consciences. If they were not then it would be useless to tell them what to do and what not to do, particularly that they would be punished if they disobeyed. They were not robots.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Sharikind said:
If a mother tells a child who understands speech not to do something it doesn't mean maybe do it. Adam and Eve knew they should not eat from that tree. They were created with consciences. If they were not then it would be useless to tell them what to do and what not to do, particularly that they would be punished if they disobeyed. They were not robots.
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From your last three posts it appears that you will defend any immoral behavior by your God.
 
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