Thoughts on the Fall of Adam

[nPeace]

will get back to it. This is awesome in its presentation and I thank you!

Hi Ken. I have been waiting in expectation for over a week now, so should I continue waiting, or should I conclude that you accept. Hence...

 

[YoursTrue]

• Qq1q ql

What do you mean by "historically accepted"? I gather that scholars regard Moses as a mythological figure; about as real as Harry Potter.

Remember, much of the bible is tribal propaganda.

Many archeological settings and details in the Bible are accurate and proven by discovery and/or existence. For instance, the Arch of Titus commemorating the victory of Roman conquerors over Jerusalem. After Jesus was killed.

 

[YoursTrue]

The problem with Adam and Eve , nobody else was there to remember the story therefore the story was written later on in time and in imagination.

Clearly whoever was there spoke about it.

 

[Vaderecta]

I am wondering how any biblical interpretation of Genesis 9:4 can mean it's okay to eat (consume) blood.
Also, to me it is plain English at Leviticus 17:10-12 it is Not okay to eat (consume) any manner of blood.
Plus, Deuteronomy 12:23-24 clearly says to me Not to eat (consume) blood.
Coming up to the first century, Christianity as found at Acts of the Apostles 15:20,29 I find it says abstain from blood.
It is up to 'Caesar' if he wants to outlaw blood. It is up each individual if he wants to follow Scripture or not.
I find 'non-blood management' is the biblical view set forth for both the past and present as found at www.jw.org.

Most christians eat meat. (A small minority do but are against blood transfusions) I regard the books as stories of ancient people relevant to their time and fantastic for exploring what people used to believe and what stories they used to tell.

But eating blood inspired Dracula, vampires and werewolves. It's a very odd subject. I am not a vegan but I don't eat chicken.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Most christians eat meat. (A small minority do but are against blood transfusions) I regard the books as stories of ancient people relevant to their time and fantastic for exploring what people used to believe and what stories they used to tell.
But eating blood inspired Dracula, vampires and werewolves. It's a very odd subject. I am not a vegan but I don't eat chicken.

I don't eat chicken either, but that is because my body lacks the ability to properly digest chicken.
Plus, the vascular residue found around raw meats is not the animal's life's blood.
There are hospitals in this area that provide non-blood management, so I would think that would be true elsewhere.
Can't catch diseases with non-blood management of one's health.

 

[Vaderecta]

I don't eat chicken either, but that is because my body lacks the ability to properly digest chicken.
Plus, the vascular residue found around raw meats is not the animal's life's blood.
There are hospitals in this area that provide non-blood management, so I would think that would be true elsewhere.
Can't catch diseases with non-blood management of one's health.

Impeccable logic.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't eat chicken either, but that is because my body lacks the ability to properly digest chicken.
Plus, the vascular residue found around raw meats is not the animal's life's blood.
There are hospitals in this area that provide non-blood management, so I would think that would be true elsewhere.
Can't catch diseases with non-blood management of one's health.

You can't? You mean blood borne diseases, don't you?

 

[YoursTrue]

Most christians eat meat. (A small minority do but are against blood transfusions) I regard the books as stories of ancient people relevant to their time and fantastic for exploring what people used to believe and what stories they used to tell.

But eating blood inspired Dracula, vampires and werewolves. It's a very odd subject. I am not a vegan but I don't eat chicken.

most people view Dracula etc as horror story. It's disgusting anyway.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I am not sidetracking anything. Why is that always your motto.
I am not dealing with the post to @URAVIP2ME. I left that for him to respond.
I asked a simple question.
Can you answer it?

You are confused, probably due to poor reading comprehension on your part.

Now I CLEARLY stated:

" in the verse you quoted to me:

Galatians 5:22-23


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

*************************
Now read that v-e-r-y carefully and look for the "you quoted to me" part. Now that means it was quoted by "URAVIP2ME", therefore has nothing to do with me, so go ask "URAVIP2ME" that question.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Thanks for helping me prove my topmost point, and another one I frequently make.

Now I maintain that the bible holds no true spiritual answers.

The entire mythology is based upon these spiritual matters:

God - a SPIRITUAL Deity
Soul - a SPIRITUAL entity
God's judgment - a SPIRITUAL process
Heaven - a SPIRITUAL place
The "afterlife" - a SPIRITUAL existence

So go and try finding a verse or verses that fully describes:

What is God's true spiritual nature?
What is a soul?
What is involved in God's judgment process?
What is Heaven really like?
What is the "afterlife" going to be like and what will you be doing there for all eternity?

And I want COMPLETE descriptions that gives a full understanding of each of those spiritual matters. And no tricks like claiming "this" means "that" or "that" means "this', etc. Each verse should stand on it's own merit.

God is a Spirit person - Hebrews 9:24
Soul is the person himself according to Genesis 2:7.
Not until God breathed the breath of life into lifeless Adam did Adam become a living soul or person.
No where does it say Adam had a soul or possessed a soul rather Adam was a soul / a person.
At death Adam became a dead soul, a life-less soul. The soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20.
God's true spiritual nature is His main attributes or qualities of Love, justice, wisdom and mercy.
God's judgement is based on Jesus' New commandment of John 13:34-35.
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
Heaven is a place where God and angelic creation lives.
Heaven is God's home address as per 1 Kings 8:39,49. However No ZIP code is mentioned.
'Afterlife' is a false un-biblical teaching. ' Resurrection ' is biblical - Revelation 1:18
Afterlife falsely teaches a person is more alive after death than before death.
The Bible teaches the dead know nothing, nothing but unconscious sleep.
( John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 116:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 )

What is Heaven really like I suppose since there is No crime in heaven, No war in heaven, No sickness in heaven and No death in heaven, then those healthy conditions exist in heaven. Thus, we are praying for those same heavenly conditions to come to Earth. That is why we are all invited to pray the invitation found at Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come ! Come and bring the 'healing' benefits as mentioned at Revelation 22:2 to Earth for us.

So you deceitfully did what the conditions asked you NOT to do.

You just made up a lot of "this" means "that"" and "that" means "this"". But you failed to SHOW the actual verses because they really do NOT describe anything like you claim they describe.

Now here are the actual verses:

Hebrews 9:24
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Hebrews 9:25
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
************************

Genesis 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
************************

Ezekiel 18:4,20
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
************************

John 13:34-35
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
*********************

1 Kings 8:39,49
39 Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men

49 Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause,
*************************

Which have NONE of the made up descriptions that you falsely claim they do. It's right here for all to see, NONE of your claims are there.

 

[Ancient Soul]

The Bible offers many spiritual insights but unfortunately few understand or apply them with accurate knowledge. Also the first documents included in the commonly accepted versions of the Bible are historically accepted as having been written by Moses thousands of years ago.

You replied to my post of:

"Yawn...

I was only talking about the "genesis" myth, no need to spaz out and spam me with a massive Christian propaganda copy and paste job.

Besides, you're not dealing with a novice here, I've been on other Christian forums before so know all of your tactics of deceit.

But I'll play along with your SPAM. At best all that proves is that SOME of the bible incorporated Jewish historical recordings, whoopty do!

My main concern over the bible is that it in no way came from any "god" because it is totally devoid of even the most basic spiritual matter. Now why would any "god" have a massive book written about himself that gives no spiritual understandings at all?"

***********************
So sorry, but I'm not accepting a vague:

"The Bible offers many spiritual insights but unfortunately few understand or apply them with accurate knowledge."

You're going to have to actually present these "spiritual insights" and show the actual verses. None of this making up whatever you want the verses to mean, give verses that back up your claim on their own, as is.

And you completely avoided providing any proof that the bible came from the Christian "god".

 

[Vaderecta]

Does anyone else ever question what R.A. Salvatore meant when he was inspired to write about Drizzt in the same sense that people think whoever jotted down the tale of adam and eve meant? How different are these two humans? Clearly Salvatore is the better writer but beyond that what are people going on about?

 

[Looncall]

• Qq1q ql

Many archeological settings and details in the Bible are accurate and proven by discovery and/or existence. For instance, the Arch of Titus commemorating the victory of Roman conquerors over Jerusalem. After Jesus was killed.

And London is mentioned in the Harry Potter books. So what?

 

[Muffled]

Christians have some pretty strong beliefs concerning Adam and Eve and their role in getting mankind where we are today. How do you view Adam and Eve? As villains? Heros? Something in between? Did God know they were going to eat the forbidden fruit? What was His purpose in putting the tree there in the first place? What would have happened had Adam and Eve never eaten the forbidden fruit? What, if any, role would Jesus Christ have had in the world had the Fall never taken place?

These are just a few of many questions we could consider in talking about the events as recorded in Genesis and which have such a bearing on our lives today. All respectful discussion welcome.

I do not believe they are responsible for the state of mankind today. My pastor hold sthe view that they are but I believe that is seminary teaching and definitely myopic.

I believe I feel for them. It is not easy to be under God's microscope. Not that any of us escape attention but maybe His expectations of us are lower.

I believe God knows everything and one would expect flawed people to fall. I believe God need them to proliferate and that wasn't going to happen in the Garden of Eden.

I believe they would have stayed there enjoying eternal life until some crazy person dropped a bomb on them.

I believe the role of Jesus has always been the same and always is.

I believe one you didn't ask was whether this is the origin of sin although you may have alluded to it by talking about our current state. I believe sin originated long before Adam and Eve and that it comes from Lucifer.

 

[Muffled]

The problem with Adam and Eve , nobody else was there to remember the story therefore the story was written later on in time and in imagination.

I believe God was there and in contact with Moses who wrote the story down.

 

[Muffled]

And London is mentioned in the Harry Potter books. So what?

I believe we know the Harry Potter books are fiction because the author says so and we know the Bible is inspired because God says so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe we know the Harry Potter books are fiction because the author says so and we know the Bible is inspired because God says so.

But God does not say so. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God "said so". At best it says that the Bible is "inspired" but even that does not mean that it is to be taken literally. If you read the verse where that claim is made it only says that the Bible is of value, not that it is literally true. And remember, it was man that wrote the book.

You do realize that other religious works claim to be "the word of God" in their own way. Why don't you believe those since according to your standards "God say's so".

 

[Muffled]

[QUOTE="Subduction Zone, post: 5929630, member: 63191"]But God does not say so. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God "said so". At best it says that the Bible is "inspired" but even that does not mean that it is to be taken literally. If you read the verse where that claim is made it only says that the Bible is of value, not that it is literally true. And remember, it was man that wrote the book.

You do realize that other religious works claim to be "the word of God" in their own way. Why don't you believe those since according to your standards "God say's so".[/QUOTE]

I believe your statement lacks foundation.

I believe there is no direct statement to that affect. The statement in the Bible is still from God even though it is not directly stated.

I believe there is no reason for taking it as anything but literal.

I suppose you are going to do null hypothesis on this and without justification. I believe I was right.

I believe that doesn't change anything.

 

[james blunt]

I believe God was there and in contact with Moses who wrote the story down.

The real story is a bit strange , hard to comprehend , but I'll take God spoke to somebody .

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you realize that excessive green ink is a sing of instability?

Green ink - RationalWiki