Nada
#
You are not understanding for a reason.......
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Three days, three nights...
- Thread starter Redemptionsong
- Start date
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Bible Student,
I'm being attentive, and I'm praying for the wisdom to understand the WHOLE truth.
The eight day reference does make some sense, but it raises problems. I'm also aware that whilst some passages of scripture speak of the Feast of Unleavened Bread as distinct from Pesach, others describe them as a single festival! Look carefully at Deuteronomy 16: 5-8.
' Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee:
But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
And thou shalt roast and eat it in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: and thou shalt turn in the morning, and go unto thy tents.
Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.'
This passage seems to take away all doubt about an EIGHT day period of eating unleavened bread i.e. Passover (1 day)+ The feast of Unleavened bread (7 days)
It seems to be saying: Passover (1 day) + Unleavened bread (6 days). Total 7 days of eating unleavened bread. This indicates that the Passover seder and the feast of Unleavened Bread started on the same evening.
I'm being attentive, and I'm praying for the wisdom to understand the WHOLE truth.
The eight day reference does make some sense, but it raises problems. I'm also aware that whilst some passages of scripture speak of the Feast of Unleavened Bread as distinct from Pesach, others describe them as a single festival! Look carefully at Deuteronomy 16: 5-8.
' Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee:
But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
And thou shalt roast and eat it in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: and thou shalt turn in the morning, and go unto thy tents.
Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.'
This passage seems to take away all doubt about an EIGHT day period of eating unleavened bread i.e. Passover (1 day)+ The feast of Unleavened bread (7 days)
It seems to be saying: Passover (1 day) + Unleavened bread (6 days). Total 7 days of eating unleavened bread. This indicates that the Passover seder and the feast of Unleavened Bread started on the same evening.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Unger's Bible Encyclopedia says the Paschal meal was on the evening of the 14th Nisan,
while the seven days following (15th - 21st Nisan) are called the Feast of Unleavened bread (Lev 23:5,6).
He says "hence the expression, The morrow of the Passover, for 15th Nisan (Num 33:3 & Josh 5:11.)
He says the whole feast, including the Paschal Eve, is called The Festival of Unleavened Bread (Exod 23:15, Lev 23.6.)
He says the evening of 13th Nisan - until that of the 14th - was called - the preparation for the Passover (John 19:14.)
He says it became a fixed practice - on 14th Nisan the victim was slain "between the two evenings" (Exod 12:6)
"The 14th Nisan. This day called until the evening - the preparation of the Passover - was also know as the first day of Passover. (Lev 23:5-7)
According to Karaite Jews between actual sunset and complete darkness.
According to the Pharisees and Rabbins as the time when the sun begins to descend to his real setting - from 3 to 6 PM.
The sacrifice had to be eaten the same evening.He says there was a morning sacrifice every day from the 15th through the 21st, and the first and seventh days had Holy Convocations (15th & 21st.)
He says the first Passover was on the evening BEFORE the Israelites left Egypt (Exod 12:28.)
He also notes that the sacrifice was originally selected on 10th Nisan, -
and tradition says that date originally fell on the Sabbath, so is celebrated as The Great Sabbath.
I don't know if this helps - or makes it more confusing. LOL!
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Nada
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Good morning brother
I see what you mean by the sixth day.It can confuse some.If you notice though,it does not say for six days only.It is clear from scripture that the festival itself is 7 days of unleavened bread.-----READ THIS....Verse 8. - On the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly. This is not placed in antithesis to the injunction, six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as if the Feast of Unleavened Bread (mazzoth) lasted only for six days and the seventh was to be devoted to a service of a different kind; it simply prescribes that the seventh day of the festival was to be celebrated by an assembling of the whole of those who had come to the feast; the festival was to be wound up with a day of holy convocation, in which no work was to be done (Leviticus 23:36). On all the days unleavened bread was to be eaten, and on the seventh there was besides to be a solemn assembly to the Lord (עֲצֶרֶת לַיחוָח
, called in Leviticus 23:36, "a holy convocation" (מִקְרָא קֹדֶשׁ. Six days shalt thou eat unleavened bread,.... In other places it is ordered to be eaten seven days, Exodus 12:15 and here it is not said six only; it was to be eaten on the seventh as on the other, though that is here distinguished from the six, because of special and peculiar service assigned to it, but not because of an exemption from eating unleavened bread on it. The Jews seem to understand this of different corn of which the bread was made, and not of different sort of bread; the Targum of Jonathan is, on the first day ye shall offer the sheaf (the firstfruits of the barley harvest), and on the six days which remain ye shall begin to eat the unleavened bread of the new fruits, and so Jarchi:
Exodus 12:15 For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. On the first day remove the yeast from your houses, for whoever eats anything with yeast in it from the first day through the seventh must be cut off from Israel.
and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the Lord thy God; a holy convocation, devoted to religious exercises, and the people were restrained, according to the sense of the word, from all servile work, as follows:
thou shalt do no work therein; that is, the business of their callings, their trades and manufactories; they were obliged to abstain from all kind of work excepting what was necessary for the dressing of food, and in this it differed from a sabbath; see Exodus 12:16.
Exodus 12:16 On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat; that is all you may do.
Remember what it says in scripture. Exodus 12:18 In the first month, on the 14th day of the month, in the evening, you are to eat unleavened bread until the 21st day of the month, in the evening.
http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/16-8.htm
This is clearly telling us how many days they ate unleavened bread.So we can see that what is meant by six days does not apply to six days only.
So the chart would look like this.
1st day Passover meal thurs 6pm-fri 6pm Nissan 14th
1st day festival of unfermented cakes fri 6pm-sat 6pm
2nd day sat 6pm- sun 6pm
3rd day sun 6pm-mon 6pm
4th day mon 6pm-tues 6pm
5th day tues 6pm-wed 6pm
6th day wed 6pm-thurs 6pm
7th day thurs 6 pm-fri 6pm
It is also important to know that the passover meal and the festival of unfermented cakes was so close together that this time was often referred to as the passover entirely.
I did some thorough research and went to the Emphatic Diaglott.I was studying how when it speaks of the first day in Matthew 26:17,it refers to the actual day before,not the day of.It says the first day,but it is not meant literally.It speaks of the day before.If you want to know in more detail about this matter just let me know and we will discuss it further.
My point though that I am trying to make is that while going deeper into this matter I came across this.
READ IT CAREFULLY AND NOTICE WHAT IT SAYS.........
EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT GRREK TRANSLATION OF THE NT PUBLISHED 1864
If you have trouble reading it you can click this link and magnify it.It is on the very bottom of the page.It is the foot note for Matthew 26:17 right hand side.
https://archive.org/stream/emphaticdiaglott00wils#page/n109/mode/2up
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Good morning brother
Verse 8. - On the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly. This is not placed in antithesis to the injunction, six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as if the Feast of Unleavened Bread (mazzoth) lasted only for six days and the seventh was to be devoted to a service of a different kind; it simply prescribes that the seventh day of the festival was to be celebrated by an assembling of the whole of those who had come to the feast; the festival was to be wound up with a day of holy convocation, in which no work was to be done (Leviticus 23:36). On all the days unleavened bread was to be eaten, and on the seventh there was besides to be a solemn assembly to the Lord (עֲצֶרֶת לַיחוָח
Six days shalt thou eat unleavened bread,.... In other places it is ordered to be eaten seven days, Exodus 12:15 and here it is not said six only; it was to be eaten on the seventh as on the other, though that is here distinguished from the six, because of special and peculiar service assigned to it, but not because of an exemption from eating unleavened bread on it. The Jews seem to understand this of different corn of which the bread was made, and not of different sort of bread; the Targum of Jonathan is, on the first day ye shall offer the sheaf (the firstfruits of the barley harvest), and on the six days which remain ye shall begin to eat the unleavened bread of the new fruits, and so Jarchi:
Exodus 12:15 For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. On the first day remove the yeast from your houses, for whoever eats anything with yeast in it from the first day through the seventh must be cut off from Israel.
and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the Lord thy God; a holy convocation, devoted to religious exercises, and the people were restrained, according to the sense of the word, from all servile work, as follows:
thou shalt do no work therein; that is, the business of their callings, their trades and manufactories; they were obliged to abstain from all kind of work excepting what was necessary for the dressing of food, and in this it differed from a sabbath; see Exodus 12:16.
Exodus 12:16 On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat; that is all you may do.
Remember what it says in scripture. Exodus 12:18 In the first month, on the 14th day of the month, in the evening, you are to eat unleavened bread until the 21st day of the month, in the evening.
Deuteronomy 16:8 For six days eat unleavened bread and on the seventh day hold an assembly to the LORD your God and do no work.
This is clearly telling us how many days they ate unleavened bread.So we can see that what is meant by six days does not apply to six days only.
So the chart would look like this.
1st day Passover meal thurs 6pm-fri 6pm Nissan 14th
1st day festival of unfermented cakes fri 6pm-sat 6pm
2nd day sat 6pm- sun 6pm
3rd day sun 6pm-mon 6pm
4th day mon 6pm-tues 6pm
5th day tues 6pm-wed 6pm
6th day wed 6pm-thurs 6pm
7th day thurs 6 pm-fri 6pm
It is also important to know that the passover meal and the festival of unfermented cakes was so close together that this time was often referred to as the passover entirely.
I did some thorough research and went to the Emphatic Diaglott.I was studying how when it speaks of the first day in Matthew 26:17,it refers to the actual day before,not the day of.It says the first day,but it is not meant literally.It speaks of the day before.If you want to know in more detail about this matter just let me know and we will discuss it further.
My point though that I am trying to make is that while going deeper into this matter I came across this.
READ IT CAREFULLY AND NOTICE WHAT IT SAYS.........
EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT GRREK TRANSLATION OF THE NT PUBLISHED 1864
If you have trouble reading it you can click this link and magnify it.It is on the very bottom of the page.It is the foot note for Matthew 26:17 right hand side.
https://archive.org/stream/emphaticdiaglott00wils#page/n109/mode/2up
I said all this, above, - in a much easier to understand style.
*
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
You're never going to interpret the Scripture properly while you're trying to prop up your bias. One is more important than the other.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
angellous-evangellous,
To believe that God is perfect is not a bias.
My approach to study, is, I believe, made more fervent and careful because I do believe that the words originally came from a God that does not make mistakes. To follow that by saying that I cannot see difficulties and complexities in the scriptures is a nonsense. I, like you, can see inconsistencies and contradictions when faced by them.
To believe that God is perfect is not a bias.
My approach to study, is, I believe, made more fervent and careful because I do believe that the words originally came from a God that does not make mistakes. To follow that by saying that I cannot see difficulties and complexities in the scriptures is a nonsense. I, like you, can see inconsistencies and contradictions when faced by them.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Inglesva,
Thank you for your input.
On which day (in Nisan) and at which hour do you understand the Passover lamb to have been killed?
Thank you for your input.
On which day (in Nisan) and at which hour do you understand the Passover lamb to have been killed?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Anyways looks like the theory I presented is actually pretty sound.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
It says -
On this day it was killed at 1:30 and offered at 2:30 pm, and if the 14th Nisan happened on a Friday it was killed at 12:30 and offered at 1:30
pm, so as to avoid any needless breach of the Sabbath.
It says the Paschal Lamb had to be offered before the incense was burned, or the lamps trimmed.
They went out at dark to roast the Paschal Lamb, on a spit of pomegranate wood.
EDIT - Forgot you asked the day. It appears to be the Preparation day, 13th Nisan, since it was before dark (at which time it would become 14th Nisan.
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Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Bible Student,
Thank you for this reply.
If you're correct, the Pascal lamb would have been chosen on 10 Nisan, and slaughtered on 13 Nisan.
On the evening of the 14 Nisan, based on Genesis 1:5, Jesus would have sat down at the Last Supper, it being the Passover Seder. Jesus would then have spent the night of the 14 Nisan at Gethsemane, later to be judged and killed.
By the evening of 15 Nisan Jesus was in the tomb. The 15 Nisan was the first day of the feast of Unleavened Bread and therefore a holy convocation, a sabbath.
On the evening of the 16 Nisan, some time during the night Jesus is raised to life (based on what you have said). Then, in the early morning of 16 Nisan the women find the tomb empty.
17, 18, 19, 20, and 21 Nisan are the remaining five days of the feast of Unleavened Bread.
I do have a copy of Josephus and this does fit with his historical commentary of the EIGHT days.
Have I missed anything?
Thank you for this reply.
If you're correct, the Pascal lamb would have been chosen on 10 Nisan, and slaughtered on 13 Nisan.
On the evening of the 14 Nisan, based on Genesis 1:5, Jesus would have sat down at the Last Supper, it being the Passover Seder. Jesus would then have spent the night of the 14 Nisan at Gethsemane, later to be judged and killed.
By the evening of 15 Nisan Jesus was in the tomb. The 15 Nisan was the first day of the feast of Unleavened Bread and therefore a holy convocation, a sabbath.
On the evening of the 16 Nisan, some time during the night Jesus is raised to life (based on what you have said). Then, in the early morning of 16 Nisan the women find the tomb empty.
17, 18, 19, 20, and 21 Nisan are the remaining five days of the feast of Unleavened Bread.
I do have a copy of Josephus and this does fit with his historical commentary of the EIGHT days.
Have I missed anything?
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Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Ingledsva,
If the killing of the lamb took place on the afternoon of Nisan 14, then the Passover Seder must take place on the evening of Nisan 15. Is that correct?
If the killing of the lamb took place on the afternoon of Nisan 14, then the Passover Seder must take place on the evening of Nisan 15. Is that correct?
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
I believe it says killed before dark on the 13th, and cooked and eaten after dark which would make it the 14th.
Rather confusing - LOL!
*
The standard tradition when it comes to the crucifixion is wrong. It came from a lack of understanding of Jewish Holy Days and celebrations. There are two basic facts that are lacking that lead to the false tradition that Jesus was executed on a Friday.
1) The weekly Sabbaths where not the only Sabbaths the Jews celebrated. Some Sabbaths where linked to specific dates not specific days such as Saturday, During the week of the death and rasurection of Jesus there where two sabbaths. One being the normal Saturday weekly sabbath and the other being a High Sabbath which was the first day of the Feast of Unleaven bread. a High sabbath. This High sabbath was the cause of them rushing to get Jesus buried before sundown before the sabbath began.
2) The Biblical day does not start at sunrise. The Biblical day starts at sunset. The actual start of the weekly sabbath starts on Friday sunset and ends on Saturday sunset.
From Biblical accounts and using modern astronomical technology we can know when religious days happened during the times if Jesus and it is by using this information we can pinpoint the date of the death and Resurrection of Jesus. This date of his crucifixion was Wednesday April the 3rd 30 AD and the time of His resurrection was at the end of the weekly sabbath Saturday the 6th of April 30 AD The series of events are as follow below..
PASSION WEEK
Note: The Jewish days are night first - then day
Tuesday day
Jesus' disciples prepare for the Passover.
Matt 26:17-19
Luke 22:7-13
Tuesday night (Jewish 4th day of the week begins)
The Lord's Passover - 14th day of the 1st month Lev 23:5
The last supper -
Matt 26:20-29
Luke 22:15-18
Prayer in Gethsememne -
Matt 26:36-45
Luke 22:40-46
Jesus arrested -
Matt 26:50-55
Matt 27:1-38
Wednesday day - Jewish preparation day for High Sabbath
(day 1 Feast of Unleaven Bread)
Jesus crucified around 9 a.m.-
Matt 27:31-44
Luke 23:26-43
Darkness covers the land at noon time-
Matt 27:45
Luke 23:26-43
Jesus died around 3 p.m.-
Matt 27:50-56
Luke 23:45-49
Jesus buried hastily between 3 p.m. and sunset-
Matt 27:57-66
Luke 23:50-56
Wednesday night (Jewish 5th day of the week begins - 15th day of the 1st month - day 1 of the feast of unleaven bread begins - a High Sabbath)
Jesus in tomb-
1st night in the belly of the earth
Thursday day
Jesus in tomb-
1st day in the belly of the earth
Thursday night (Jewish 6th day of the week begins - end 15th day of the 1st month - end of the High Sabbath)
Jesus in tomb-
2nd night in the belly of the earth
Friday day
Jesus in tomb-
2nd day in the belly of the earth
Friday night (Jewish 7th day of the week begins - the Sabbath according to the commandment)
Jesus in tomb-
3rd night in the belly of the earth
Saturday day
Jesus in tomb-
3rd day in the belly of the earth - final part of three days and three nights
Jesus arose between 3 p.m. and sunset
Two Marys go to see the tomb . . . He's not there . . . He is risen!
Matt 28:1
Saturday night - (Jewish 1st day of the week begins - 7th day Sabbath ends)
Multiple trips made to the tomb - see post above.
Sunday day
He appeared to some of His diciples and they all gather together for fear of the Jews
Matt 28:16-20
Mark 16:9-14
Luke 24:1-47
John 20:19
I hope you enjoyed the read Redemptionsong
1) The weekly Sabbaths where not the only Sabbaths the Jews celebrated. Some Sabbaths where linked to specific dates not specific days such as Saturday, During the week of the death and rasurection of Jesus there where two sabbaths. One being the normal Saturday weekly sabbath and the other being a High Sabbath which was the first day of the Feast of Unleaven bread. a High sabbath. This High sabbath was the cause of them rushing to get Jesus buried before sundown before the sabbath began.
2) The Biblical day does not start at sunrise. The Biblical day starts at sunset. The actual start of the weekly sabbath starts on Friday sunset and ends on Saturday sunset.
From Biblical accounts and using modern astronomical technology we can know when religious days happened during the times if Jesus and it is by using this information we can pinpoint the date of the death and Resurrection of Jesus. This date of his crucifixion was Wednesday April the 3rd 30 AD and the time of His resurrection was at the end of the weekly sabbath Saturday the 6th of April 30 AD The series of events are as follow below..
PASSION WEEK
Note: The Jewish days are night first - then day
Tuesday day
Jesus' disciples prepare for the Passover.
Matt 26:17-19
Luke 22:7-13
Tuesday night (Jewish 4th day of the week begins)
The Lord's Passover - 14th day of the 1st month Lev 23:5
The last supper -
Matt 26:20-29
Luke 22:15-18
Prayer in Gethsememne -
Matt 26:36-45
Luke 22:40-46
Jesus arrested -
Matt 26:50-55
Matt 27:1-38
Wednesday day - Jewish preparation day for High Sabbath
(day 1 Feast of Unleaven Bread)
Jesus crucified around 9 a.m.-
Matt 27:31-44
Luke 23:26-43
Darkness covers the land at noon time-
Matt 27:45
Luke 23:26-43
Jesus died around 3 p.m.-
Matt 27:50-56
Luke 23:45-49
Jesus buried hastily between 3 p.m. and sunset-
Matt 27:57-66
Luke 23:50-56
Wednesday night (Jewish 5th day of the week begins - 15th day of the 1st month - day 1 of the feast of unleaven bread begins - a High Sabbath)
Jesus in tomb-
1st night in the belly of the earth
Thursday day
Jesus in tomb-
1st day in the belly of the earth
Thursday night (Jewish 6th day of the week begins - end 15th day of the 1st month - end of the High Sabbath)
Jesus in tomb-
2nd night in the belly of the earth
Friday day
Jesus in tomb-
2nd day in the belly of the earth
Friday night (Jewish 7th day of the week begins - the Sabbath according to the commandment)
Jesus in tomb-
3rd night in the belly of the earth
Saturday day
Jesus in tomb-
3rd day in the belly of the earth - final part of three days and three nights
Jesus arose between 3 p.m. and sunset
Two Marys go to see the tomb . . . He's not there . . . He is risen!
Matt 28:1
Saturday night - (Jewish 1st day of the week begins - 7th day Sabbath ends)
Multiple trips made to the tomb - see post above.
Sunday day
He appeared to some of His diciples and they all gather together for fear of the Jews
Matt 28:16-20
Mark 16:9-14
Luke 24:1-47
John 20:19
I hope you enjoyed the read Redemptionsong
The killing of the lamb was before the start of the day of Passover. Passover started at sunset and Jesus and the diciples consumed their passover mean (The final supper) after sunset they then went to the garden where Jesus was captured. He was interrogated and tried that night and the next morning and was condemned and was hung on the cross and died in the same afternoon at around 3 PM. So Jesus both ate the passover meal and died on the same passover day. He was buried before the sun set on the passover day.
Nada
#
Your welcome brother
Everything sounds good except the beginning.Yes the lamb was kept from the 10th.The lamb is slaughtered and prepared on Nissan 14th,not 13th.Remember it becomes Nissan 14th at 6pm.The Jews were instructed to slaughter the lamb at twilight.They had to prep it by removing the guts and cleaning them,then placing them back in,no broken bones,and roast it on an open fire.Dusk then happens around 7:20 pm.It would be eaten after dusk.Exodus 12:6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight.
Remember twilight only happens once,and that is at around 6pm.So this passage is saying that the lamb was slaughtered as soon as 6pm came around,making it Nissan 14th.This would be at twilight.Then once prepared,it would be eaten in the night time.Dusk happens around 7:20 pm.These are what is referred to as the two evenings.
8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.
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A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Whether or not God is perfect is completely irrelevant - there's no way to prove that one way or the other, because no matter what God does you can always attribute that to God's perfection.
I was referring to Scripture. If you're using every Scripture to prove that Scripture is perfect, you're busy doing that rather than interpreting Scripture.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
That scenario is highly unlikely since the Sanhedrin could not meet on Passover. In an emergency, one member of the Sanhedrin would be involved in hearing what the issue was and making a decision, and then the other members could review the case after Passover was finished.
The most likely scenario would be John's rendition whereas Jesus and the apostles celebrated it early on the "preparation day" for Passover.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Bible Student,
Would you therefore call 'preparation day' the 13 Nisan, and 'Passover' the 14 Nisan?
Would you therefore call 'preparation day' the 13 Nisan, and 'Passover' the 14 Nisan?
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
metis,
Thank you. We need to hear from those with a knowledge of Jewish tradition, and with access to the scriptural reasoning behind those traditions.
Thank you. We need to hear from those with a knowledge of Jewish tradition, and with access to the scriptural reasoning behind those traditions.