Thy Kingdom Come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

[loverofhumanity]

This prayer would have been offered trillions of times.

First What is it asking for?

An individuals answer to that question, will clarify if the next questions are relevant.

Has Jesus acheive this?
Has Muhammad achieved this?
Has any past Faith yet Acheived this?

I have my thoughts.

View attachment 98769

Regards Tony

What I believe this prayer refers to is the Revelation of Baha'u'llah where everything is done out of love. Baha'is are not ordered or controlled but obey out of love. Acting solely from love. This is the Kingdom of God on earth where people do things from the love in their hearts rather than with selfish motive or greed or some ulterior motive. That is why our numbers are few because you don't get anything for being a Baha'i. No monetary gain, no position, power or wealth. No personal gain. Who wants to join just to serve humanity? Apparently not many unless there is something in it for them. Even for one's ego there is nothing in the Baha'i faith for people. To give and serve humanity is our love.

Before I first became a Bahai I was very suspicious of Baha'is looking for an ulterior motive for years, why Baha'is do what they do. What do they get? What is their secret motive? They welcomed me but never forced their faith on me. This is because I believe this is the Kingdom of God Christ spoke of where people have no hidden motives, their only desire to serve God and humanity out of love.

This is the Day of love. The Day when the purest of motives and love rules. The only thing is this. Some flowers bloom early. So, it is with the Kingdom of God that it be gradually established and love rule everywhere. I believe it will be a reversal of today. Instead of evil dominating and selfishness and hate and prejudice, these such sentiments will be extremely rare. The Kingdom of God is not Utopia because humans are imperfect, but it will be heaven compared to what we've got now. The Baha'i World Community I believe is the nucleus of the Kingdom of God on earth. In this age obedience is viewed as control but nothing could be further from the truth with regards to Baha'is. We love to obey and to please God. This is what the Kingdom of God is, to do everything from love and a pure heart not fear or guilt or that some Satan will haunt us. This is the world Baha'is live in - a world of peace, joy, contentment and love. This is the early stages of the Kingdom of God on earth.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What I believe this prayer refers to is the Revelation of Baha'u'llah where everything is done out of love. Baha'is are not ordered or controlled but obey out of love. Acting solely from love. This is the Kingdom of God on earth where people do things from the love in their hearts rather than with selfish motive or greed or some ulterior motive. That is why our numbers are few because you don't get anything for being a Baha'i. No monetary gain, no position, power or wealth. No personal gain. Who wants to join just serve humanity? Apparently not many unless there is something in it for them. Even for one's ego there is nothing in the Baha'i faith for people. To give and serve humanity is our love.

Before I first became a Bahai I was very suspicious of Baha'is looking for an ulterior motive for years, why Baha'is do what they do. What do they get? What is their secret motive? They welcomed me but never forced their faith on me. This is because I believe this is the Kingdom of God Christ spoke of where people have no hidden motives, their only desire to serve God and humanity out of love.

This is the Day of love. The Day when the purest of motives and love rules. The only thing is this. Some flowers bloom early. So, it is with the Kingdom of God that it be gradually established and love rule everywhere. I believe it will be a reversal of today. Instead of evil dominating and selfishness and hate and prejudice, these such sentiments will be extremely rare. The Kingdom of God is not Utopia because humans are imperfect, but it will be heaven compared to what we've got now. The Baha'i World Community I believe is the nucleus of the Kingdom of God on earth. In this age obedience is viewed as control but nothing could be further from the truth with regards to Baha'is. We love to obey and to please God. This is what the Kingdom of God is, to do everything from love and a pure heart not fear or guilt or that some Satan will haunt us. This is the world Baha'is live in - a world of peace, joy, contentment and love. This is the early stages of the Kingdom of God on earth.

I agree with what you have offered.

Could it be that every Revelation is actually a fullfullment to this prayer?

Every martyr, every saint that has brought that Love, are the power feeding this prayer

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

I agree with what you have offered.

Could it be that every Revelation is actually a fullfullment to this prayer?

Every martyr, every saint that has brought that Love, are the power feeding this prayer

Regards Tony

Baha’u’llah said “Obey Me for the love of My Beauty”. Love is the foundation of the Kingdom.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Exactly on your final paragraph Tony, in my view in a future Baha'i theocracy Baha'i laws would be the law of the nations or the law of the land.

Thus non-Baha'i would be compelled to follow a subset of the rules of your religion in my view whether they chose to be Baha'i or not.

This is from the Universal House of Justice (27th April 1995)
'The Bahá’ís will be called upon to assume the reins of government when they will come to constitute the majority of the population in a given country, and even then their participation in political affairs is bound to be limited in scope unless they obtain a similar majority in some other countries as well.

(19 November 1939)​

The Bahá’ís must remain non-partisan in all political affairs. In the distant future, however, when the majority of a country have become Bahá’ís then it will lead to the establishment of a Bahá’í State.

(19 April 1941)'

'These phrases are “Bahá’í theocracy” and “humanity will emerge from that immature civilization in which church and state are separate.”'

Source: https://www.bahai.org/library/autho...ages/19950427_001/19950427_001.xhtml?59532be8

When one is looking for something, one can find it, but you will note I have offered a few times, that what may unfold in the future will not be based on what is currently known and used as an undesirable theocracy.

One needs to read the entire link posted, as it also contains much advice about the vast difference between this age and the age to come.

As to your comment about being compelled to follow Baha'i Law.

"...In answer to those who raise objections to this vision of a worldwide commonwealth inspired by a Divine Revelation, fearing for the freedom of minority groups or of the individual under such a system, we can explain the Bahá’í principle of upholding the rights of minorities and fostering their interests. We can also point to the fact that no person is ever compelled to accept the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh and moreover, unlike the situation in certain other religions, each person has complete freedom to withdraw from the Faith if he decides that he no longer believes in its Founder or accepts His Teachings. In light of these facts alone it is evident that the growth of the Bahá’í communities to the size where a non-Bahá’í state would adopt the Faith as the State Religion, let alone to the point at which the State would accept the Law of God as its own law and the National House of Justice as its legislature, must be a supremely voluntary and democratic process.."

All Bahá’ís, and especially those who make a profound study of the Cause, need to grasp the differences between the Bahá’í concepts of governance and those of the past, and to abstain from measuring Bahá’í institutions and methods against the faulty man-made institutions and methods hitherto current in the world. The Guardian graphically stressed these differences in his letter of 8 February 1934, known as “The Dispensation of Bahá’u’lláh”:

Note the following, no current Theocracy, nor any other form of current rule can define this future system

"....The Bahá’í Commonwealth of the future, of which this vast Administrative Order is the sole framework, is, both in theory and practice, not only unique in the entire history of political institutions, but can find no parallel in the annals of any of the world’s recognized religious systems. No form of democratic government; no system of autocracy or of dictatorship, whether monarchical or republican; no intermediary scheme of a purely aristocratic order; nor even any of the recognized types of theocracy, whether it be the Hebrew Commonwealth, or the various Christian ecclesiastical organizations, or the Imamate or the Caliphate in Islam—none of these can be identified or be said to conform with the Administrative Order which the master-hand of its perfect Architect has fashioned..."

This is why I am attempting to draw you away from such limiting views. Thanks for the link.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

First What is it asking for?

Matthew 6
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Jesus us asking us to pray for God's kingdom to come to earth and for God's will to be done on earth.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Matthew 6
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Jesus us asking us to pray for God's kingdom to come to earth and for God's will to be done on earth.

I personally see that both Christianity and Islam, at some time during their rise to the midday of their influence, did in some ways bring God's Kingdom to earth in that age.

That is why I see verses such as this as timeless, as even when the Baha'i Faith reaches the midday of its influence, I am of the thought that it will be still short of a complete fulfillment of that prayer.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

When one is looking for something, one can find it, but you will note I have offered a few times, that what may unfold in the future will not be based on what is currently known and used as an undesirable theocracy.

One needs to read the entire link posted, as it also contains much advice about the vast difference between this age and the age to come.

As to your comment about being compelled to follow Baha'i Law.

"...In answer to those who raise objections to this vision of a worldwide commonwealth inspired by a Divine Revelation, fearing for the freedom of minority groups or of the individual under such a system, we can explain the Bahá’í principle of upholding the rights of minorities and fostering their interests. We can also point to the fact that no person is ever compelled to accept the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh and moreover, unlike the situation in certain other religions, each person has complete freedom to withdraw from the Faith if he decides that he no longer believes in its Founder or accepts His Teachings. In light of these facts alone it is evident that the growth of the Bahá’í communities to the size where a non-Bahá’í state would adopt the Faith as the State Religion, let alone to the point at which the State would accept the Law of God as its own law and the National House of Justice as its legislature, must be a supremely voluntary and democratic process.."

All Bahá’ís, and especially those who make a profound study of the Cause, need to grasp the differences between the Bahá’í concepts of governance and those of the past, and to abstain from measuring Bahá’í institutions and methods against the faulty man-made institutions and methods hitherto current in the world. The Guardian graphically stressed these differences in his letter of 8 February 1934, known as “The Dispensation of Bahá’u’lláh”:

Note the following, no current Theocracy, nor any other form of current rule can define this future system

"....The Bahá’í Commonwealth of the future, of which this vast Administrative Order is the sole framework, is, both in theory and practice, not only unique in the entire history of political institutions, but can find no parallel in the annals of any of the world’s recognized religious systems. No form of democratic government; no system of autocracy or of dictatorship, whether monarchical or republican; no intermediary scheme of a purely aristocratic order; nor even any of the recognized types of theocracy, whether it be the Hebrew Commonwealth, or the various Christian ecclesiastical organizations, or the Imamate or the Caliphate in Islam—none of these can be identified or be said to conform with the Administrative Order which the master-hand of its perfect Architect has fashioned..."

This is why I am attempting to draw you away from such limiting views. Thanks for the link.

Regards Tony

The main law and teaching of Baha’u’llah is the oneness of humanity so all are accepted as equal fellow human beings regardless of race, religion or nationality.

 

[Trailblazer]

Baha’u’llah said “Obey Me for the love of My Beauty”. Love is the foundation of the Kingdom.

Love was the foundation of Christianity. The primary commandment of Jesus was that we love one another.

Matthew 22
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Time marches on and now Justice is just as necessary as Love for the Kingdom of God on earth to be realized.

2: O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, just imagine a world everyone is equal.

Imagine
(written and composed by
John Lennon and Yoko Ono)

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

I love the song and I see the reason in the plea behind "And no religion too", but I also understand that verse is unattainable, while the rest is attainable. What is attainable, is an understanding of religion that will fulfill the cry offered in the other verses of that song.

It is a wonderful anthem for humanity

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

I love the song and I see the reason in the plea behind "And no religion too", but I also understand that verse is unattainable, while the rest is attainable. What is attainable, is an understanding of religion that will fulfill the cry offered in the other verses of that song.

It is a wonderful anthem for humanity

Regards Tony

What people do not grasp properly is that religion is about love, harmony, acceptance of all, service to humanity. Can we say these things are bad and that the world should be without them?

Evil Is perpetrated by people, not taught by any religion. Religion only teaches to do good. But people disobey the laws of love that religion teaches and kill one another. That is people’s fault for not being obedient to the laws of religion. Christ says to love but people hate. Is that Christ’s fault? No, people choose to do the wrong or evil thing directly against what all the Holy Books teach.

If people obeyed religion, wars would cease instantly. The poor would be enriched. All would live comfortably. But when people follow the self and put aside God’s laws of love then wars break out and people starve.

Religion is the greatest instrument for lasting peace and prosperity in the world or should I rather say obedience to its laws of love will see us having a much better world of peace and harmony.

The Great Being saith: O ye children of men! The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His Religion is to safeguard the interests and promote the unity of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men. (Baha’u’llah)

 

[danieldemol]

'...In light of these facts alone it is evident that the growth of the Bahá’í communities to the size where a non-Bahá’í state would adopt the Faith as the State Religion, let alone to the point at which the State would accept the Law of God as its own law and the National House of Justice as its legislature, must be a supremely voluntary and democratic process.."'

I have bolded the relevant text Tony, in my view it confirms what I'm saying.

So the number of Baha'i hypothetically reaches 51% population, the nation then democratically adopts the Baha'i law as its state law - and you have your voluntary and democratic acceptance (By the Nation-state). The only problem becomes that 49% of the population did not agree to Baha'i theocratic law being foisted upon it in my view.

Hence it has the problem that all theocratic religions pose when they are in the majority view - the problem of laws being based on the majority's superstition instead of based on demonstrable sources of harm in my view.

Merely saying it will be completely different to every other theocracy is an empty assertion as I see it.

 

[1213]

This prayer would have been offered trillions of times.

First What is it asking for?

God's kingdom and that God's will happens.

Jesus told about the kingdom:

Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not of this world. If my Kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn’t be delivered to the Jews. But now my Kingdom is not from here.”
John 18:36
Being asked by the Pharisees when God’s Kingdom would come, he answered them, “God’s Kingdom doesn’t come with observation; neither will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, ‘Look, there!’ for behold, God’s Kingdom is within you.”
Luke 17:20-21

The people who keep Jesus as their king, and want God's will to happen, form the kingdom of God. Because we still have people who do so, I think Jesus successfully established God's kingdom.

 

[loverofhumanity]

God's kingdom and that God's will happens.

Jesus told about the kingdom:

Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not of this world. If my Kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn’t be delivered to the Jews. But now my Kingdom is not from here.”
John 18:36
Being asked by the Pharisees when God’s Kingdom would come, he answered them, “God’s Kingdom doesn’t come with observation; neither will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, ‘Look, there!’ for behold, God’s Kingdom is within you.”
Luke 17:20-21

The people who keep Jesus as their king, and want God's will to happen, form the kingdom of God. Because we still have people who do so, I think Jesus successfully established God's kingdom.

Not with thousands of conflicting Christian sects. The commandment Christ gave was to love one another yet Christians have ignored this command and become divided over theological disputes. Where does the world turn to when each sect is saying ‘here is Christ’? Christianity is not the one shepherd and one fold Christ foretold. It could have been had they remained united and one religion but instead inner conflict and division ruled over theological differences instead of loving one another. Is the kingdom of God even within a disunited Christianity when each sect accuses the other of being false?

 

[RestlessSoul]

“On earth as it is in heaven” implies that there are two realms, the material and the spiritual. Jesus says to Pilate in John’s Gospel, “My kingdom is not of this world.”

And in Matthew’s Gospel, he tells his disciples not to store up for themselves “riches in this world, where rust and moth decay and the thief breaks in and steals”, but rather to lay up riches in the spiritual world.

So the message of the Gospels is that the things of enduring value are to be found not on earth, which is Satan’s world (and Caesar’s), but in heaven, which is God’s.

In Luke’s Gospel Jesus tells his disciples that “The kingdom of God is within you”. So “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven” reads as an expression of the desire to do know and do God’s will here on earth and, in so doing, realise the Kingdom of God within ourselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

What people do not grasp properly is that religion is about love, harmony, acceptance of all, service to humanity. Can we say these things are bad and that the world should be without them?

That is what religion should be about, and that is the fundamental purpose of religion.

“The Great Being saith: O ye children of men! The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His Religion is to safeguard the interests and promote the unity of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men. Suffer it not to become a source of dissension and discord, of hate and enmity. This is the straight Path, the fixed and immovable foundation. Whatsoever is raised on this foundation, the changes and chances of the world can never impair its strength, nor will the revolution of countless centuries undermine its structure.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 215-217

But that is not always what religion is about, which is why some people steer clear of religion.
Religion is also about dogma, and I don't like that part of religion, nor do many other people.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

“On earth as it is in heaven” implies that there are two realms, the material and the spiritual. Jesus says to Pilate in John’s Gospel, “My kingdom is not of this world.”

And in Matthew’s Gospel, he tells his disciples not to store up for themselves “riches in this world, where rust and moth decay and the thief breaks in and steals”, but rather to lay up riches in the spiritual world.

So the message of the Gospels is that the things of enduring value are to be found not on earth, which is Satan’s world (and Caesar’s), but in heaven, which is God’s.

In Luke’s Gospel Jesus tells his disciples that “The kingdom of God is within you”. So “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven” reads as an expression of the desire to do know and do God’s will here on earth and, in so doing, realise the Kingdom of God within ourselves.

I would envisage, for that kingdom to be on earth, that a Majority of people will come to that realisation and embrace every other soul in the same light. Humility will be the norm, as would service to each other.

Regards Tony

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.................................................................
Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven, cannot be a theocracy, as it also says in the book that offered the prayer, that My Kingdom is not of this world .............................

The modern-day definition of theocracy is: government by clergy or clergy class
That is Not the Bible theocracy ( Daniel 2:44 ) or God-Ruled government that Jesus taught - Matthew 24:14
So, yes, Heaven is a theocratic God-ruled government or kingdom
Only one King for that Kingship aka Christ Jesus - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Matthew 6
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Jesus us asking us to pray for God's kingdom to come to earth and for God's will to be done on earth.

... and come as it is done in Heaven
In Heaven there is; No crime, No violence, No War, No pollution, No deadly storms, No sickness, and No death in Heaven
So for God's Will (His purpose) to be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven means the same safe-and-healthy conditions for Earth
Thus, the humble meek will inherit the Earth free from sickness and death

 

[Trailblazer]

... and come as it is done in Heaven
In Heaven there is; No crime, No violence, No War, No pollution, No deadly storms, No sickness, and No death in Heaven
So for God's Will (His purpose) to be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven means the same safe-and-healthy conditions for Earth
Thus, the humble meek will inherit the Earth free from sickness and death

The verse says:
Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

The verse says that we are to pray for God's will to be done on earth and for God's will to be done in heaven.
The verse does not say that it is God's will for earth to be like heaven.

Heaven is a spiritual world. Earth conditions can never be like heaven since earth is a physical world.

No, earth will never be free from sickness and death because physical bodies are prone to sickness and they all die eventually.

The humble meek will inherit the Earth means that the people who are living on earth at the time the New Earth is built will inherit the earth, as will their progeny. Dead people are not going to come back to life and inherit the earth.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The modern-day definition of theocracy is: government by clergy or clergy class
That is Not the Bible theocracy ( Daniel 2:44 ) or God-Ruled government that Jesus taught - Matthew 24:14
So, yes, Heaven is a theocratic God-ruled government or kingdom
Only one King for that Kingship aka Christ Jesus - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26

I envisage a global system, backed by national and local levels of authority that is ruled by humanity, via democratic elections. I see that system will draw on the legislative capacity of the Spirit in matter's related to Law and moral conduct.

Regards Tony