Thy Kingdom Come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

[danieldemol]

Don't forget why Lions, etc. are the way they are today according to Genesis 9:2
Their present nature serves as a protection so they won't be destroyed or become extinct
Genesis: tame, Now: wild, Future: tame again -> Isaiah 65:25

Then your God shows a mercy to (non-human) animals that it does not show humans in my view.

All this bloodthirstiness towards humans is allegedly justified by the apologist in the name of a supposed free will that I do not believe exists.

 

[ppp]

In Eden, the first place, the created rats, etc. were tame
After the Flood - Genesis 9:2 - the fear of man kept animal life from becoming extinct or completely destroyed
In the future animal kind will be tame again - Isaiah 11:6-9
We are all invited to become part of that gentle future by asking God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:2

That doesn' address the issue. You are just quoting other stuff in hopes no one notices

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That doesn' address the issue. You are just quoting other stuff in hopes no one notices

By issue: ' thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is heaven ' ________________
God will for Heaven is: No war, No crime, No violence, No pollution, No sickness and No death in Heaven
So, if God's will is to be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven, then we are asking for those same heavenly conditions to come exist on Earth

 

[CG Didymus]

Since the time of Jesus, I would offer those 3 heaven and earth (Gods Word and Law), were brought by Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

The First Woe, Muhammad, the 2nd Woe the Bab and the 3rd Woe, that comes quickly, was Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

So easy to say, but what does it say in Revelation about what happens during that second and third "Woe"? It should be things that happened during the Bab's and Baha'u'llah's lifetime, right? But no...

Rev 11: 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”

Now this is happening during the second "Woe". But Baha'is claim that the two witnesses are Muhammad and Ali... Which should be during the first Woe, but the first Woe ended back in chapter 9. And shortly after in chapter 11, the second Woe ends and the third Woe begins.

Rev 9:12 The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.

Rev 11:14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.

Well, things sound promising for the Baha'is... The next verse says...

Rev 11:15 “The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

But then what?

Rev 12:1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
Rev 12:7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.
Rev 12:13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.
Rev 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

What's that got to do with what happened during Baha'u'llah's life? And chapter 13 doesn't help. It goes into the beasts that Baha'is claim were the Umayyads that took control of Islam several hundred years before Baha'u'llah.

Rev 13:113 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

The context does not support the Baha'i claim in any way. The best Baha'is can do is say that Revelation isn't in chronological order. Which... sounds like a pretty weak claim. But... if that's all you got, then what can you do? And I know it is enough to satisfy Baha'is.

But... If you've got anything better than that, I'd love to hear it.

 

[ppp]

By issue: ' thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is heaven ' ________________

No. I'm afraid not. You are just trying to force stuff into terms that make you more comfortable. You cannot even bear to acknowledge that people have thoughts outside of your beliefs, can you?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No. I'm afraid not. You are just trying to force stuff into terms that make you more comfortable. You cannot even bear to acknowledge that people have thoughts outside of your beliefs, can you?

Huh? throughout history people lived and died with thoughts outside of the Bible.
That does Not make the Bible as wrong

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That doesn' address the issue. You are just quoting other stuff in hopes no one notices

But I would like everyone to notice Genesis 9:2

 

[ppp]

Huh? throughout history people lived and died with thoughts outside of the Bible.
That does Not make the Bible as wrong

At this point, I doubt you even remember what it was you were responding two. At this point, I doubt that you even care.

 

[CG Didymus]

Originally there was No physical death for Adam & Eve
Breaking God's law of Gen. 2:17 introduced death on Earth

TB says that is not in the Bible. Are you basing that on this...

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—​

​

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.​

​

15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!​

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The day Adam was created Adam was Not a sinner - Gen. 2:17
If Adam had chosen Not to sin we would have inherited his sinless state
Because we are all born 'after' Adam chose to sin is why we inherited adamic sin and can't stop sinning

 

[CG Didymus]

The day Adam was created Adam was Not a sinner - Gen. 2:17
If Adam had chosen Not to sin we would have inherited his sinless state
Because we are all born 'after' Adam chose to sin is why we inherited adamic sin and can't stop sinning

That's meaningless to Baha'is. They don't take Genesis literally. In fact, they don't believe it is accurate. They believe somebody changed that story about Abraham taking his son to be sacrificed. Somebody changed it from Ishmael to Isaac. Of course they can't say how or when this happened. They just know it did.

Ah, nothing like religious beliefs... can't prove them true or even real... but people believe them anyway and swear they are true.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's meaningless to Baha'is. They don't take Genesis literally. In fact, they don't believe it is accurate. They believe somebody changed that story about Abraham taking his son to be sacrificed. Somebody changed it from Ishmael to Isaac. Of course they can't say how or when this happened. They just know it did.

Ah, nothing like religious beliefs... can't prove them true or even real... but people believe them anyway and swear they are true.

The Bible states that God created man in His Own Image which clearly means that man is born pure and free from sin.

Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

 

[loverofhumanity]

With regards to Thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven is very simple. God’s laws will become popular and followed throughout the lands. They will be viewed by one and all as the medicine to cure the ills of our age.

What‘s God’s Will? Easy. It’s that love and brotherhood and peace exists on earth between all people, all races, nations and religions. That the ‘wolf and the lamb’, the antagonistic peoples will be at peace with one another.

This is happening now but it is a process not an event. The process of God’s Will being done on earth is gaining momentum and in time will envelope the world - the spirit of love for all mankind , unconditional love for all believer or not, poor or rich, black or white, easterner or westerner, Muslim or Jew. All will become accepted as equal fellow human beings.

 

[Sumadji]

The Bible states that God created man in His Own Image which clearly means that man is born pure and free from sin.

Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Then came the fall ...

 

[loverofhumanity]

Then came the fall ...

Of the Holy Roman Empire? Yes but that’s an empire established by men. This is one made by God so it works. But humanity has never ever had a system given to us by God. So, we won’t know until a lot of time passes whether it will fall and crumble or not. Man’s systems have all fallen so now let’s see if God can do any better.

 

[Sumadji]

Of the Holy Roman Empire?

No, the fall of man from the spiritual state of Garden of Eden, to become subject to nature, to be clothed in a coat of skin and subject to death and have to take other life in order to sustain his own.

It's the whole purpose of the story of Adam ...

Man was created perfect, but lost that perfection

 

[Sumadji]

I wish Baha'i would either put in a bit of study to read the Bible in context or just leave it alone and admit they don't know much about it, except to repeat passages endorsed by their founders and given a completely different meaning

 

[loverofhumanity]

No, the fall of man from the spiritual state of Garden of Eden, to become subject to nature, to be clothed in a coat of skin and subject to death and have to take other life in order to sustain his own.

It's the whole purpose of the story of Adam ...

Man was created perfect, but lost that perfection

Exactly. That’s already happened. Man has abandoned the heavenly spiritual place of God’s love and replaced it with love of things and pleasures. The story of Adam is about man abandoning the paradise of God’s love and exchanging it for material benefits. As clear as day especially in these days of open warfare and religious sectarianism.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I wish Baha'i would either put in a bit of study to read the Bible in context or just leave it alone and admit they don't know much about it, except to repeat passages endorsed by their founders and given a completely different meaning

And you are? What are your qualifications that prove you have the proper context except your own personal opinion? You are aware that there are another 40,000 Christian sects that will tell you that you’ve got your context wrong? So where does it stop telling each other we’ve got it wrong? The Book of Revelation says none of us but One has got it right.

If you read Revelation chapter 5 it states no man in heaven or earth or under it can unseal the meanings so how can we judge others when we ourselves are told that we cannot unseal the meanings? That One according to Revelation is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah?

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah is that Lion and that His interpretations unseal the Books. So you are free to accuse us of not knowing what we are talking about but IF Baha’u’llah is that Lion then every Christian should heed His Words.

 

[Sumadji]

Exactly. That’s already happened. Man has abandoned the heavenly spiritual place of God’s love and replaced it with love of things and pleasures. The story of Adam is about man abandoning the paradise of God’s love and exchanging it for material benefits. As clear as day especially in these days of open warfare and religious sectarianism.

Id say that is a very superficial interpretation of the descent of the imperfect 'created' material dimension of nature, time and death into 'coats of skin' from the perfect and eternal 'uncreated' spiritual dimension that surrounds and permeates nature.

It's Plato's cave or Paul's through a glass darkly, imo